We already said that we used McEvedy in one Tinto Talks. It is true that this book is rather outdated but it is still rather used as source for many modern ones and more importantly, it covers the whole world, which helps with keeping consistency.
As someone that has been reading about demographics in general, and medieval demographics in particular (several years before I joined Tinto, even), I can tell you that everyone (has to) work with estimations so expecting a "correct" answer is not attainable. Even the "use more modern data" claim is not even that useful because in many cases the "novelty" is using a different method to calculate something, not that it is necessarily more accurate.
What I am trying to say, and specially for those that lose their nerves when discussing about estimations is that this is a highly debatable matter and very much up to interpretation.
The America's topic is indeed very polarized politically speaking and personally it is nothing I am going to get into. Internally we have decided an approach that people are, obviously, free to criticize, but we expect and hope that it is respected.
As people are also trying to propose more towns and cities, let me clarify (I think that it was already said, but whatever), that we are looking for towns (5.000 people in 1337) and cities (25.000 people in 1337). If data is provided we can consider adding them. Most collections of data that we have managed to get (Chandler, Bairoch, de Vivre, Malamina, etc) have already been used. The lack of data is specially dramatic outside of Western Europe and specially Europe in general.
First of all, thank you for the immense work that has gone into EU5. The level of detail and the effort to maintain historical consistency across the world is impressive, especially given the challenges of working with medieval data. I also appreciate your transparency in using sources like McEvedy, and your clear communication that population estimates are inherently interpretive and imprecise.
With that understanding in mind, I would like to respectfully suggest a reconsideration of how towns are represented in the Ruthenian region—particularly Galicia–Volhynia and the Kyiv area—in the 1337 start. Currently, these areas feature very few towns (settlements with over 5,000 inhabitants), and many historically significant urban centers are either omitted or undervalued. While I’m not suggesting a dramatic increase in town count, a few additional towns would better reflect the historical urban network and improve regional balance.
EDIT: For instance, important cities like
Halych,
Volodymyr-Volynskyi,
Lutsk, and
Kremenets played major political, religious, and economic roles during this period. While
Volodymyr was the primary capital around 1337—the start date of the game—
Halych remained a highly significant urban and ecclesiastical center. Earlier, it had served as the power base of Prince Roman Mstyslavych and later became the religious seat of the
Metropolis of Halych, established with the support of King Yurii I. Although it was not the formal capital at that time, its status as a religious center, along with its long-standing urban development and strategic importance, make its absence from the town list feel like a notable oversight.
To support this point, I refer to a scholarly article:
P. V. Hlibchuk, "Мережа міських поселень України в період середньовіччя (X – кінець XVII ст.)", published in
Visnyk Heodezii ta Kartohrafii, 2015. The study includes a detailed map and a breakdown of settlement patterns across medieval Ukraine. According to the article, over
240 urban settlements existed during the Kyivan Rus period, of which roughly 90 were large towns. The Galychyna-Volhynia region maintained and developed many of these even after the Mongol invasions.
What makes this study particularly helpful is that it synthesizes data from multiple well-established academic and cartographic sources, including:
- The National Atlas of Ukraine (edited by L. H. Rudenko) – a modern state-published atlas including historical demographic data and settlement patterns.
- Works by historians such as O.V. Rusina and A.V. Tolstoukhov, which compile extensive historical chronicles and archaeological evidence of urban life in the region.
- Historical cartographic sources such as those by Guillaume Le Vasseur de Beauplan, Mercator, and Ortelius, who mapped the region in the 16th and 17th centuries—indicating numerous towns and fortifications already in place by the 14th century.
- Medieval chronicles and church records (e.g., Kormchiye Knigi, referring to local governance and law codes) that help identify which settlements had administrative and judicial infrastructure associated with towns.
According to the article, towns like
Lviv had about 3,000 residents in the 14th century and grew to 10,000 by the early 15th century.
Kremenets and
Kamianets-Podilskyi likely reached 5,000 inhabitants by the 16th century. Given these trends, it's reasonable to infer that cities like
Halych or
Volodymyr-Volynskyi may have already been approaching or at the 5,000 mark in 1337, especially when accounting for their regional significance.
I understand that you are trying to maintain consistency across all world regions, and that population estimates are inherently debatable. But I hope this additional source—and the multi-source nature of the study—can provide enough grounded evidence to consider adding just a few more towns to this historically rich and strategically important region.
Thank you again for your dedication and for being open to respectful feedback.
Sources
Глібчук П. В.
Мережа міських поселень України в період середньовіччя (X – кінець XVII ст.
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