Turtledove's Settling Accounts Mod

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With advice from HMS Enterprize, I have decided to open up to the community a chance to work on the Settling Accounts Mod. For those of you that havn't read this book series, author Harry Turtledove asks "what if the orders Lee wrapped in 3 cigars never fell into Union hands at Antietam, allowing CS independence". From there Turtledove takes the reader through a second war ( How Few Remain ) to the Great War ( American Front series) through the depression ( American Empire )and now into WWII with the Settling Accounts trilogy.

Progress so far has been that the important countries have been created, territorial gains put in, units and names reorganized, and techs inputted. Very playable as I've tested, but not a true SA Mod yet.

If you have any suggestion for countries, any leader, any graphics, especially unit names, triggers such as the Morman uprising, or anything in general, feel more then free to post in this thread where a decision will be made. Unlike the "Confederate States of America" mod, time is of the essence so a goal will be June 22nd (Barbarossa Day, or for the SA fans, Operation Blackbeard) to release this mod.

 

[unmerged(28432)]

With advice from HMS Enterprize, I have decided to open up to the community a chance to work on the Settling Accounts Mod. For those of you that havn't read this book series, author Harry Turtledove asks "what if the orders Lee wrapped in 3 cigars never fell into Union hands at Antietam, allowing CS independence". From there Turtledove takes the reader through a second war ( How Few Remain ) to the Great War ( American Front series) through the depression ( American Empire )and now into WWII with the Settling Accounts trilogy.

Progress so far has been that the important countries have been created, territorial gains put in, units and names reorganized, and techs inputted. Very playable as I've tested, but not a true SA Mod yet.

If you have any suggestion for countries, any leader, any graphics, especially unit names, triggers such as the Morman uprising, or anything in general, feel more then free to post in this thread where a decision will be made. Unlike the "Confederate States of America" mod, time is of the essence so a goal will be June 22nd (Barbarossa Day, or for the SA fans, Operation Blackbeard) to release this mod.

Obvious choices for Confederate generals would be Nathan Bedford Forrest III and Patton.

Perhaps the creator of the M1 Garand could be a tech team for Quebec, I know that he was Quebecois.

Tredegar Iron Works would be the Confederacy small arms tech team.

While it's just speculation, I believe that 'King Charles' is Charles DuGalle. Historically DuGalle was pro-monarchy, and it did say that France was using their tanks correctly.

For Diplomacy sliders, Britain should be one or two slots away from Democracy and a very high intervention level. That way they could declare war on Ireland, Norway, or whatever other countries that the player wants to declare war on.

Russia's IC should be very low as they don't have the historical industrial programs that Stalin used. Perhaps an IC around one hundred?

Utah should be its own nation, Deseret, and they should probably start with a few militia divisions and perhaps an infantry division. I'm not sure if its possible to give them a very, very, high morale bonus, but if it is then they should receive one. The Confederacy should get a few events asking if they would like to help the Mormons.

If Ohio is taken the U.S should lose some IC, perhaps 20-40 until a pathway from the East and West is reopened.

Canada shouldn't have that high of a partisan rating, in the book it seemed as if the Canadians were content with living on with their life, perhaps a 5-10% rating.

Obviously Quebec would be a satelite state of the United States, though I'm not sure if they should be allied as I don't recall them ever declaring war on the CSA.

The Confederacy should start with almost all, if not all, of the +5% manpower tech. In the books it said that tractors were being mass produced for the farms.

USA and Germany should both have fairly high nuclear technologies.

If I think of anything else I'll certain reply. I'm afraid I have no experience or knowledge in modding or else I would be able to help participate in this project.

 

[HMS Enterprize]

I thought I would post my original thread so you can see my original thoughts on the project...

old thread

When I first read the SA book, I started to note down some names of leaders, I'll dig it out and get back to you on that.

Mosley and churchill are in power in britain, meaning the BUF is their party, I wonder what their stance on democracy would have been? Place them as Paternal Autocrat?

Ireland should probably be a US puppet or at least guarantee of independence. Opinions? In the book UK is hammering Ireland IIRC..

Also, Desert has very tough militia IIRC and are being supplied with CS arms. Perhaps this should be reflected with an 'overpowered' Deseret in terms of unit spawning? Opinions? Also- Deseret Flag, something about a Bumblebee...?

@omega. I have been making a regular CS mod anyway and have given class names to about 97% of all CS units. Plane names include ones taken from SA- mules and hound dogs. Almost everything else- tanks, ships, AT guns, carrier air groups etc have been given suitably 'southern' names that are in keeping with the Tech teams available. I can send you my modified unit names CSV if you want it too, just provide an email address.

 

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As far as leaders go, unfortuantly Turtledove doesnt give a whole lot of CS generals so Im having to go and search through generals/admirals with southerner ancestry (like General Buckner, commander of the US invasion force on Okinawa and son of a CS general).

Deseret Republic has already got it's dimensions though I'm having some problems with the trigs (that and getting the plebiscite vote trigs for kentucky/oklahoma/houston). Though the Mormans don't have tanks, they do have a lot of anti-tank artillery.

Ireland has a guarantee of independence from both Germany and US (though in the opening acts of WWII it falls pretty fast)...Quebec is a satellite nation, and while it doesnt declare war, US can use it's troops...Ukraine/Poland/Baltic countries under Germany occupation...havnt decided yet whether the Ottoman Empire should get Egypt...Belgium is under German control while Holland is under German "influence" and will become a German/US ally (in the book it talks about how Belgium is receptive to french/brits but the Dutch put up resistance).

While Russia isnt put into a stalinist "revolution" in the book, it does progress more dramatically and is making strides into German-held Ukraine and Poland so I dont think Russia's IC would be that low but still will take a hit.

Got a lot of the units names from the books (Razorbacks, Mules *aka Asskickers*, Hound Dogs) but still need to come up with some more tech teams besides Tred. Rifles and "Orange Citrus Company".

And one more thing- thx Zhouv. I forgot about Garand being from Quebec. It will come in handy when looking over the final list of tech teams.

 

[unmerged(36311)]

Russia's IC would be pretty low, besides the land it lost, it never had the rampant industrialisms of the 5-year plans. Industrialisms? is that a word? Anyway, i'd LOVE a SA mod. Ive fanatically poured over all the books wishing for what might have been, and id LOVE this, especially when -that- csa mod lost my support by playing in Wacko-Land. G'lord, CSA! FREEDOM! I'd worship this, and tell me however i can help and i'll try.

 

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Well I guess the Imperial senate has voted, Russia's IC will be pretty low...

If you want to Lettow, or anyone else, triggers are right now proving the better of me and my common sense. If you have an idea for the plebisicte (which is really getting to me), do it, or how UK/france attacked through Belgium/Holland in a reverse Fall Gelb, or pretty much any other idea that comes to mind.

Unit names or leaders (fictional like Abner Dowling and/or possible rl generals if the south had achieved independence) are also a high priorty right now. Also a high priorty is wrapping up final tech lvls and tech teams within a week.

And remember, if you have something to input into this project, put your name on it so you can get the credit you deserve.

 

[KILLER BOB]

i think the french/english invasion of GER is more like the schifflin plan in reverse, as in the book they don't appear to be charging forward with their panzers and appears to be stuck in a stalemate

ps- i cant code for my life, however i would like to help with anything else

 

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Well I guess the Imperial senate has voted, Russia's IC will be pretty low...

If you want to Lettow, or anyone else, triggers are right now proving the better of me and my common sense. If you have an idea for the plebisicte (which is really getting to me), do it, or how UK/france attacked through Belgium/Holland in a reverse Fall Gelb, or pretty much any other idea that comes to mind.

Unit names or leaders (fictional like Abner Dowling and/or possible rl generals if the south had achieved independence) are also a high priorty right now. Also a high priorty is wrapping up final tech lvls and tech teams within a week.

If you need to get intouch with me, my email account is C_47Airborne@yahoo.com .

And remember, if you have something to input into this project, put your name on it so you can get the credit you deserve.

I join the "Cant Code" crowd. Have you considered the HOI2 genereals used for CSA? hardly exclusive, as they dont include Patton and such, and to be honest its a fairly bland skill group, with several skill 0 (!) generals but none skill 5, and either only 1 skill 4, or i got him to 4 through battle. Regrettably i disremember which..

But anyhow. Nathan Bedford Forrest III wouldent be a general, would he? he's the minister of armaments, i'd think. The Plebeiscite..for the function of it, should it be determined that sequoyah stays under the US heel and houston/KY liberate? Should they each have seperate chances to join, or is that too much to do?

Also, shouldent CSA receive some + IC? We know for a fact that the mississippi delta (memphis, mississippi, owensboro in this case) had a major damming program with electricity and such provided to the people, and LA had the major road buildup of the kingfish (although thats historical, as is the mississippi river project, which was OTL the TVA, although in turtledove's timeline it was much more emphasized..). The CSA was said to have industrialized in how few remain following the war, so the south should have slightly more ( im thinking +10 total) IC then historical. And, to echo someone else, they should have most/all the farming equipment techs.

Perhaps west TX should get IC, to give it more signifigance? right now in game terms houston is more or less useless to the CSA..

As for europe..It does indeed seem to have just been a reverse schlieffen plan, getting bogged along hamburg and the rhine.

what about the invasion of ireland? Ireland has belfast in this timeline, and should have a larger army then historical (not that that's hard) since they already fought a campaign to put down the protestant insurgents funded by britain, and they have the very real thread of a facist britain breathing down their neck.

And finally, the invasion of norway by britain shouldent be forgotten..in the books it said norway was invaded, presumably due to an altmark paralell, but that the invasion had blundered and done little more then push norway into the axis camp.

 

[HMS Enterprize]

i think the french/english invasion of GER is more like the schifflin plan in reverse, as in the book they don't appear to be charging forward with their panzers and appears to be stuck in a stalemate

I havent read the book in a while but I thought England and France were giving germany a hammering? to the extent that Hungary (i think) was wavering as a german ally?

As for CS IC allocation, in my bog standard CSA mod, with CS provinces removed, USA starts with like 80/150 ish IC (this includes moddifiers that keep early IC low, like historic USA) In wartime, it rises to 280/250.

I have boosted CSA to start with approx 175 IC. (purely to get the ball rolling-no point in going to all the trouble to make a mod, and have the focus nation weak, if you ask me!) With Infastructure/IC building/plus a gearing up event or 2 I got it up to the 200 mark.

This may be a tad too high but I think it neccesary for gameplay terms. Up to the community ultimately, but the info might be helpful...

There was also mention of the shiffilien plan (or however you spell it!) This is WW1 tactics, is this mentioned in the book or is my memory hazy?

 

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Hrm, i dunno..thats an awful beefy CSA boost. They're IC lack can be offset by high morale and high org for units, cant it? maybe a pearl harbor like event where in the first week or two of the invasion the US gets crippling penalties, also? CSA SHOULD feel a nasty crunch due to lack of IC. But remember, the CSA has smgs and is working on assault rifles, whereas the US is still using springfields. We can interpret this as CSA having '39 infantry, with the US having '18 (!). In other areas they are more equal, but the CSA was noted to enjoy much better infantry, and close air support.

Edit: it was poland wavering, and due to russia..

 

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Quick Note: In Europe, Brits/french push through both of Belgium and Holland (low countries) in a reverse of the 1940 Fall Gelb plan of Manstein. B/f alliance used their barrels (tanks) effectively but were stopped at Hamburg by regrouping Germans with heavy anti-tank. At the same time Russia pushes into Ukraine and Poland using revolts against the Germans to their advantage.

Also it was Bulgaria that was wavering, but did join along, OE came back (Im leaning towards giving Egypt to OE as a prize from the Great War), and Austria-Hungary is still in it.

Also Mussolini in the books tried but failed to win any position in Italy as Flora remembers about "some guy in Itay who promised to have the trains run on time".

Im starting the map off in 1935 with US at GW Inf lvls and CS at Early Inf.

 

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Im starting the map off in 1935 with US at GW Inf lvls and CS at Early Inf.[/QUOTE]

'35. not '36? and could the CSA have blueprints for basic inf to nudge them along in that regard?

Also, it was said britain was still "cock of the walk" in africa, so its highly unlikely they lost egypt.

you were right about bulgaria, and yes, italy is still a democracy.

 

[Brasidas]

A couple questions:

CSA's heavy into motorized infantry and CAS at the opening of Settling Accounts. And aren't we talking "Victorious Opposition" with this sort of timeline anyway?

If we're talking 35 or 36 gamestart date, perhaps we could see a low IC CSA start with the blueprints to basic infantry ('39), basic motorized infantry, improved light armour, and basic CAS. Give all of the first tier CAS doctrines to CSA, including night strikes.

With German-like tech teams, a competent player could deploy vastly superior troops in time for the war but would be handicapped in numbers.

One final option that I can think of would be to give the CSA some higher level industrial techs. Maybe the root assembly lines one, skipping some machine tools techs. This would lend itself to the smaller but better mobilized industry of the CSA. It would also give the CSA the chance to make use of these techs, as a fall '39 "Pearl Harbour" would be too early for the normal completion of assembly lines techs before "France". The CSA would need the bulk of its forces deployed earlier in the war than the USA.

 

[unmerged(36311)]

A couple questions:

CSA's heavy into motorized infantry and CAS at the opening of Settling Accounts. And aren't we talking "Victorious Opposition" with this sort of timeline anyway?

If we're talking 35 or 36 gamestart date, perhaps we could see a low IC CSA start with the blueprints to basic infantry ('39), basic motorized infantry, improved light armour, and basic CAS. Give all of the first tier CAS doctrines to CSA, including night strikes.

With German-like tech teams, a competent player could deploy vastly superior troops in time for the war but would be handicapped in numbers.

One final option that I can think of would be to give the CSA some higher level industrial techs. Maybe the root assembly lines one, skipping some machine tools techs. This would lend itself to the smaller but better mobilized industry of the CSA. It would also give the CSA the chance to make use of these techs, as a fall '39 "Pearl Harbour" would be too early for the normal completion of assembly lines techs before "France". The CSA would need the bulk of its forces deployed earlier in the war than the USA.

I would echo all of this instead of giving the CSA extra IC to buff them, with one exception about the light tanks..The CSA's tanks were roughly equal with the USA's. The usa, infact, has had a blueprint of a basic medium tank for a long time in the form of the Custer.

edit: and also, CS tech teams should be a weakness, not a strength. The CSA doesent have the universities, or tons of money to play with, or anything that america or germany had. This means that after they get their blueprinted tech and the initial benefits, the USA tech would eventually overtake them.

 

[HMS Enterprize]

Hrm, i dunno..thats an awful beefy CSA boost. They're IC lack can be offset by high morale and high org for units, cant it? maybe a pearl harbor like event where in the first week or two of the invasion the US gets crippling penalties, also? CSA SHOULD feel a nasty crunch due to lack of IC. But remember, the CSA has smgs and is working on assault rifles, whereas the US is still using springfields. We can interpret this as CSA having '39 infantry, with the US having '18 (!). In other areas they are more equal, but the CSA was noted to enjoy much better infantry, and close air support.

Yea, I agree to a degree but we need to remember that in a world where the USA is in two pieces, the CSA is gonna have the 4th or 5th largest world economy...the IC boost given to the CSA reflected this in my mod.

I also agree about a pearl harbour style event to simulate the 'no formal DOW'

and also, CS tech teams should be a weakness, not a strength. The CSA doesent have the universities, or tons of money to play with, or anything that america or germany had. This means that after they get their blueprinted tech and the initial benefits, the USA tech would eventually overtake them.

Im not suggesting right or wrong here but how do you reach that conclusion?, the CSA would be a great power and certainly have universities. Featherston has been building the economy for 10 years+ so money I dont think will be an issue either.

On a more general note, the discussions here, whilst interesting are becoming hard to keep track of and determine real progress. I suggest taking one nation at a time and trying to make as many decisions as possible before moving on. Perhaps start with UK to keep it spicy!

We also might want to formalise a team if possible and put difficult decisions to a vote. Opinions?

 

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So putting the *damnable* trigs aside (still having problems with the plebiscite so PLEASE if you know someone who has specialty in trigs send him this way), Im going to finish up doing the tech teams/tech lvls by wednesday, hopefully getting to finishing unit names/placement of garrisons.

But once I do get the plebiscite vote down, I'll start working on Operation Blackbeard.

Just for info, the CSA has two major tech teams: Tredgalfar Rifles and the Orange Citrus Company (front company the CS used to research new planes like the one Sam saw while on Rememberance ). Ive added a couple more, annexed Cuba's tech teams with different names into the CS (cuba is a CS state), and a couple leaders.

Enterprize if you want to organize a team and have votes on decisions, I'm up to it.

 

[KILLER BOB]

I think you spelled tredger wrong
also they should have the barrel works like the US, cause it was mentioned in VO (victorious opposition)

 

[Brasidas]

Lettow,

I'd agree with you on industry, but I'm not so sure that the CSA would be all that weak in applied technology. Nukes and exotic physics, yes. (Even though we saw Heisenberg and Hitler retold.) Rocketry, maybe. Armaments? I don't see it. As has been said, the CSA does have a significant industrial base and has a better-organized military-industrial base than the north. Featherstone may not have a Peenemuede, but I would say that he does have a Krupp. And bear in mind that we're only at the dawn of the war. I would bet that a CSA Panther model will predate Christie stepping forward with a sort of T-34.


Enterprize,

May I ask what sort of balance of industry the USA and the CSA have in your vision? Is the CSA a close fourth or a distant fifth in terms of GNP? If you're keeping the two economies close in size, you might instead use the peacetime penalties to maintain an early balance between the two.

I understand that the CSA is a modern, industrialized nation rather than being the CSA of OTL sprung into being in the WW2 era. But a large IC would be fairly wasted on the CSA if much of the CSA has already been mobilized. If the CSA has the later industrial techs significantly earlier than the north, it will be able to convert its existing manpower base into divisions by or shortly after Operation Blackbeard.


Omega,

I haven't got a great deal of time (I'm working on my own mod), but I am trying to sort out some triggers of my own. I can try to give it a shot, and if I can't do it by saturday you can throw it at somebody else.

 

[Brasidas]

Oh, and Enterprize,

This thread may become a little bit cluttered if everything is discussed here. If you have a burning issue you want to address, perhaps it should be at the top of the queue of new threads? Such as a "What the hell is the UK like and what are they up to?" thread.

If all topics are discussed linearly, such as "Okay, end of discussion of the CSA." followed by "UK", improvements on old ideas will be disruptive and it may take longer than brainstorming areas in parallel.

 

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Not called the Barrel Works but the Iron Works is the barrel (tank) production centers...Union also has it's own camp that Morrel ran dedicated to barrel development though I can't remember it right now.

Featherson turns down what he considers is an "old cook scientist" describing atomic power BUT does read about UK advances into rocketry and jots down to his aids to "look into".

And Brasidas thx for the offer of help- I'll try a couple more times to mess around with things then if I cant get it, you can take a look at it if you have time.