I was just using the numbers to make a point. They will of course be needing changes.
Steele
Steele
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StephenT said:They didn't, however, walk any faster than normal infantry...
I just thought that they might have marched that tiny bit quicker
Are we having machine gun 'brigardes' replace anti-tank capability then?
you could use my idea of making a brigade that cheapens a division but lowers its stats to represent conscripted/poor divisions.
This brigade question might have to go eventually to a vote...
So far we've got:
1) Keep the anti-tank brigade
2) Regular troops attachment
3) Extra Machine-guns attachment
4) Conscripts/Old men/children on bikes
...any other entries?
So far we've got:
1) Keep the anti-tank brigade
2) Regular troops attachment
3) Extra Machine-guns attachment
4) Conscripts/Old men/children on bikes
...any other entries?
You might remove the regular troops thing. That was originally (I think) my idea, but I like the machine gun idea better.
I don't think there would be any real reason to keep it as an anti-tank unit. And the old men and children on bikes just seems weird...
Steele
I don't think there would be any real reason to keep it as an anti-tank unit. And the old men and children on bikes just seems weird...
Steele
5) Supermen...genetically altered supermen...
I would say go with the machinegun brigade. The conscripts/Old men/children on bikes could be represented as an optional Land doctrine (say in one of the higher gold techs), that cheapens the cost of a divsion (MP & IC wise) but weakens its attack/MaxOrg/Defense/etc. It's pre-requitiste would be conscription (and the gold tech that it is in of course), but it would be completely optional.
I would say go with the machinegun brigade. The conscripts/Old men/children on bikes could be represented as an optional Land doctrine (say in one of the higher gold techs), that cheapens the cost of a divsion (MP & IC wise) but weakens its attack/MaxOrg/Defense/etc. It's pre-requitiste would be conscription (and the gold tech that it is in of course), but it would be completely optional.
Actually, if one were to look at the mod we've released, it is noticeable that antitank brigades have been replaced by a siege artillery regiment attachment, and the antiair brigade has been replaced with a gas artillery regiment.
Of course, we can change one of these if we think it's necessary.
Of course, we can change one of these if we think it's necessary.
StephenT said:Proposed unit models for aircraft:
Scout Fighter fighter.txt (Short range)
Two-Seater fighter.txt (Medium range)
Escort Fighter fighter.txt (Long range)
Bomber tactical_bomber.txt
Strategic Bomber strategic_bomber.txt
Contour Bomber dive_bomber.txt
Seaplane torpedo_plane.txt
Reconaissance 'Plane naval_bomber.txt
Airship transport_plane.txt
Explanations: "Contour Bomber" was, according to Jane's, the contemporary name for a ground attack aircraft. Seaplanes also represent the aircraft carried on board ships during this time. There wasn't really a separate category of long-range naval bomber in WW1, so I used this model for the early-war recce planes. Similarly, there were no paratroopers in WW1, so no need for transport aircraft - so these become Zeppelins.
Seem reasonable?
All we need now is somebody to code the model files and the tech file
Stephen,
Can you give some guidance about how what models of aircraft you envisage in the various categories. I am especially curious about varying fighter models and there respective effectiveness, and also how we distinguish between tactical and contour bombers.
Yours obedient servant...
Few ideas from an ancinent thinker(hahaha)
Ok, i had downloaded the 1.01b(is that correct) version and althought not ready it seems good,i have a few comments however.Forget the gas-brigade attachment.In the game seems to increase the AA instead of anything else.Instead of that in the tech tree the gas invention may give a attack bonus to the units(in term of points and %)while the gas mask should be the opposite by improving defence.Maybe the AA-GAS attachment should present adding tanks as support or something else(i havent figured what).The HoI heavy aircraft tech tree should continue be the same in TGW-mode and not only Zeppelin,i dont think that these heavy airships were of such importance especially having in mind the way aircraft tech developed.So the Str/Tac air units must return in this tree instead of being with the light airplanes.One last thing,by giving Thessaloniki province to Bulgaria only to avoid Greece having borders with Ottomans you are having a mistake.Geographically the city and most of the area was in Greek hands after Balkan wars.Historically doing this negates the Balkan wars in-game history since the capture of the city by Greeks was not liked by the Bulgarians and was a reason for Balkan war 2,also gives no opportunity to recreate the landings of Allied troops there during Greek neutrality and all the events that can be created.
The manpower needs for the division should increase.At the time most nations had divisions that included 12 inf. battalions(2 brigades of 2 regiments each),1 art. regiment,MG battalions(1 or 2 per brigade) plus other units.All that means the a division had 15-18.000 men(Cavalry were smaller).If every point og manpower is 1000 people it needs more than what is now in order to recreate a unit.Thats for now.
Ok, i had downloaded the 1.01b(is that correct) version and althought not ready it seems good,i have a few comments however.Forget the gas-brigade attachment.In the game seems to increase the AA instead of anything else.Instead of that in the tech tree the gas invention may give a attack bonus to the units(in term of points and %)while the gas mask should be the opposite by improving defence.Maybe the AA-GAS attachment should present adding tanks as support or something else(i havent figured what).The HoI heavy aircraft tech tree should continue be the same in TGW-mode and not only Zeppelin,i dont think that these heavy airships were of such importance especially having in mind the way aircraft tech developed.So the Str/Tac air units must return in this tree instead of being with the light airplanes.One last thing,by giving Thessaloniki province to Bulgaria only to avoid Greece having borders with Ottomans you are having a mistake.Geographically the city and most of the area was in Greek hands after Balkan wars.Historically doing this negates the Balkan wars in-game history since the capture of the city by Greeks was not liked by the Bulgarians and was a reason for Balkan war 2,also gives no opportunity to recreate the landings of Allied troops there during Greek neutrality and all the events that can be created.
The manpower needs for the division should increase.At the time most nations had divisions that included 12 inf. battalions(2 brigades of 2 regiments each),1 art. regiment,MG battalions(1 or 2 per brigade) plus other units.All that means the a division had 15-18.000 men(Cavalry were smaller).If every point og manpower is 1000 people it needs more than what is now in order to recreate a unit.Thats for now.
OK:
The three types of fighter more or less reflect the three types in standard HoI. Scouts are your basic interceptors: Sopwith Pup, Sopwith Camel, SE-5, Fokker Eindecker, Fokker Dreidecker, Albatros D.III, Fokker D.VII, Nieuport 17, and so forth. Short range, high air attack and air defence.
Two-seaters are the equivalent of multi-role fighters. Slightly lower air defence, lower air attack, compensated for by longer range and a very small ground attack factor. Classic example being the Bristol F.2B.
Escort fighters were a rarity in WW1: large (often twin-engined) fighters designed for long-distance escort duty. An example would be the French Caudron R.11 (successful) or British RE.7 (a failure). Similar to a two-seat figher but lower air attack and defence, and a much longer range.
Bombers would have a reasonable tactical attack factor, a very small strategic attack factor (perhaps only in higher models), an even smaller naval attack factor (definitely at higher levels only), average range, low defence and low air attack. For example the Bregeut 14 or Airco DH.4.
Contour bombers would take the place of dive bombers in WW2. As compared to conventional bombers: no strategic bombing factor but higher tactical factor, shorter range, and higher defence. For example the Halberstadt CL.II or Sopwith Salamander.
Strategic bombers - compared to bombers much longer range, swap over the values of their strategic and tactical attack factors, otherwise similar. Examples, the Gotha or Handley-Page 0/400. The Advanced models (only) should have the range to cross the Atlantic.
Seaplanes would have reasonable air attack and defence (half-way between fighters and bombers), a small naval attack factor, and a very small tactical and strategic bombing factor. Medium range. To include actual seaplanes like the Albatros W.4 and Friedrichshafen FF.33, flying boats such as the Curtiss 'Large America', and even landplanes used at sea such as the Sopwith Triplane or Pup.
The three types of fighter more or less reflect the three types in standard HoI. Scouts are your basic interceptors: Sopwith Pup, Sopwith Camel, SE-5, Fokker Eindecker, Fokker Dreidecker, Albatros D.III, Fokker D.VII, Nieuport 17, and so forth. Short range, high air attack and air defence.
Two-seaters are the equivalent of multi-role fighters. Slightly lower air defence, lower air attack, compensated for by longer range and a very small ground attack factor. Classic example being the Bristol F.2B.
Escort fighters were a rarity in WW1: large (often twin-engined) fighters designed for long-distance escort duty. An example would be the French Caudron R.11 (successful) or British RE.7 (a failure). Similar to a two-seat figher but lower air attack and defence, and a much longer range.
Bombers would have a reasonable tactical attack factor, a very small strategic attack factor (perhaps only in higher models), an even smaller naval attack factor (definitely at higher levels only), average range, low defence and low air attack. For example the Bregeut 14 or Airco DH.4.
Contour bombers would take the place of dive bombers in WW2. As compared to conventional bombers: no strategic bombing factor but higher tactical factor, shorter range, and higher defence. For example the Halberstadt CL.II or Sopwith Salamander.
Strategic bombers - compared to bombers much longer range, swap over the values of their strategic and tactical attack factors, otherwise similar. Examples, the Gotha or Handley-Page 0/400. The Advanced models (only) should have the range to cross the Atlantic.
Seaplanes would have reasonable air attack and defence (half-way between fighters and bombers), a small naval attack factor, and a very small tactical and strategic bombing factor. Medium range. To include actual seaplanes like the Albatros W.4 and Friedrichshafen FF.33, flying boats such as the Curtiss 'Large America', and even landplanes used at sea such as the Sopwith Triplane or Pup.
Ladies and Gentlemen, your attention please.
Here follows a suggested 'first stab' at unit stats. They are all up for grabs.
In short, I followed these principles:
- A considerable increase in ground defence - battles last longer
- Artillery BGDEs slow down all units to 3 - They are nig & slow (yes I know about skoda 305mms, but there were less than 6 of them I think!)
- +org across the board - battles last longer again
- +effectiveness of MTN troops - they were generally elite
- -effectiveness of MAR troops - divisions of these were not built, and if they had they would be hotch-potch things.
- -ORG for CAV - they will withdraw from combat earlier than other units
- reduced visibility for cruisers - individual shps satlking the seas are pretty hard to spot, especiialy if they are fast and hiding. (think of the Emden)
- reduced sea defence - HOI naval battles last weeks, Jutland one day & a bit!
Here follows a suggested 'first stab' at unit stats. They are all up for grabs.
In short, I followed these principles:
- A considerable increase in ground defence - battles last longer
- Artillery BGDEs slow down all units to 3 - They are nig & slow (yes I know about skoda 305mms, but there were less than 6 of them I think!)
- +org across the board - battles last longer again
- +effectiveness of MTN troops - they were generally elite
- -effectiveness of MAR troops - divisions of these were not built, and if they had they would be hotch-potch things.
- -ORG for CAV - they will withdraw from combat earlier than other units
- reduced visibility for cruisers - individual shps satlking the seas are pretty hard to spot, especiialy if they are fast and hiding. (think of the Emden)
- reduced sea defence - HOI naval battles last weeks, Jutland one day & a bit!
Last edited:
Infantry
model = {
cost = 6
buildtime = 95
manpower = 10
maxspeed = 5
defaultorganisation = 40
grounddefence = 12
airdefence = 3
softattack = 1
hardattack = 1
airattack = 1
transportweight = 10
supplyconsumption = 1
fuelconsumption = 0
speed_cap_art = 4
speed_cap_eng = 5
speed_cap_at = 5
speed_cap_aa = 5
}
model = {
cost = 6
buildtime = 95
manpower = 10
maxspeed = 5
defaultorganisation = 40
grounddefence = 12
airdefence = 3
softattack = 1
hardattack = 1
airattack = 1
transportweight = 10
supplyconsumption = 1
fuelconsumption = 0
speed_cap_art = 4
speed_cap_eng = 5
speed_cap_at = 5
speed_cap_aa = 5
}
Cavalry
model = {
cost = 7
buildtime = 120
manpower = 9
maxspeed = 7
defaultorganisation = 25
grounddefence = 6
airdefence = 2
softattack = 1
hardattack = 0
airattack = 0
transportweight = 30
supplyconsumption = 2.0
fuelconsumption = 0
speed_cap_art = 3
speed_cap_eng = 4
speed_cap_at = 4
speed_cap_aa = 4
}
model = {
cost = 7
buildtime = 120
manpower = 9
maxspeed = 7
defaultorganisation = 25
grounddefence = 6
airdefence = 2
softattack = 1
hardattack = 0
airattack = 0
transportweight = 30
supplyconsumption = 2.0
fuelconsumption = 0
speed_cap_art = 3
speed_cap_eng = 4
speed_cap_at = 4
speed_cap_aa = 4
}
Motorize Infantry
model = {
cost = 8
buildtime = 120
manpower = 10
maxspeed = 8
defaultorganisation = 40
grounddefence = 12
airdefence = 1
softattack = 1
hardattack = 1
airattack = 1
transportweight = 30
supplyconsumption = 1.8
fuelconsumption = 3.5
speed_cap_art = 6
speed_cap_eng = 8
speed_cap_at = 8
speed_cap_aa = 8
}
model = {
cost = 8
buildtime = 120
manpower = 10
maxspeed = 8
defaultorganisation = 40
grounddefence = 12
airdefence = 1
softattack = 1
hardattack = 1
airattack = 1
transportweight = 30
supplyconsumption = 1.8
fuelconsumption = 3.5
speed_cap_art = 6
speed_cap_eng = 8
speed_cap_at = 8
speed_cap_aa = 8
}
Fortress Infantry (Was mechanised)
model = {
cost = 10
buildtime = 125
manpower = 5
maxspeed = 0
defaultorganisation = 40
grounddefence = 18
airdefence = 4
softattack = 4
hardattack = 4
airattack = 4
transportweight = 30
supplyconsumption = 1.5
fuelconsumption = 0
speed_cap_art = 0
speed_cap_eng = 0
speed_cap_at = 0
speed_cap_aa = 0
}
I have some doubts about this unit, especially because it must have a minimum speed of 1! It will also (I assume) maintain the properties of Mech inf in terms of hard attack values et. al.)
A subject for discussion later.
model = {
cost = 10
buildtime = 125
manpower = 5
maxspeed = 0
defaultorganisation = 40
grounddefence = 18
airdefence = 4
softattack = 4
hardattack = 4
airattack = 4
transportweight = 30
supplyconsumption = 1.5
fuelconsumption = 0
speed_cap_art = 0
speed_cap_eng = 0
speed_cap_at = 0
speed_cap_aa = 0
}
I have some doubts about this unit, especially because it must have a minimum speed of 1! It will also (I assume) maintain the properties of Mech inf in terms of hard attack values et. al.)
A subject for discussion later.
Guards Infantry (paras)
model = {
cost = 12
buildtime = 160
manpower = 16
maxspeed = 5
defaultorganisation = 60
grounddefence = 12
airdefence = 3
softattack = 3
hardattack = 1
airattack = 1
transportweight = 10
supplyconsumption = 1.5
fuelconsumption = 0
speed_cap_art = 4
speed_cap_eng = 5
speed_cap_at = 5
speed_cap_aa = 5
}
model = {
cost = 12
buildtime = 160
manpower = 16
maxspeed = 5
defaultorganisation = 60
grounddefence = 12
airdefence = 3
softattack = 3
hardattack = 1
airattack = 1
transportweight = 10
supplyconsumption = 1.5
fuelconsumption = 0
speed_cap_art = 4
speed_cap_eng = 5
speed_cap_at = 5
speed_cap_aa = 5
}
Marine Infantry
model = {
cost = 8
buildtime = 160
manpower = 13
maxspeed = 5
defaultorganisation = 45
grounddefence = 8
airdefence = 3
softattack = 2
hardattack = 1
airattack = 1
transportweight = 10
supplyconsumption = 1
fuelconsumption = 0
speed_cap_art = 3
speed_cap_eng = 4
speed_cap_at = 4
speed_cap_aa = 4
}
model = {
cost = 8
buildtime = 160
manpower = 13
maxspeed = 5
defaultorganisation = 45
grounddefence = 8
airdefence = 3
softattack = 2
hardattack = 1
airattack = 1
transportweight = 10
supplyconsumption = 1
fuelconsumption = 0
speed_cap_art = 3
speed_cap_eng = 4
speed_cap_at = 4
speed_cap_aa = 4
}
Mountain Troops
model = {
cost = 8
buildtime = 160
manpower = 13
maxspeed = 5
defaultorganisation = 50
grounddefence = 9
airdefence = 3
softattack = 2
hardattack = 1
airattack = 1
transportweight = 10
supplyconsumption = 1.2
fuelconsumption = 0
speed_cap_art = 3
speed_cap_eng = 4
speed_cap_at = 4
speed_cap_aa = 4
}
model = {
cost = 8
buildtime = 160
manpower = 13
maxspeed = 5
defaultorganisation = 50
grounddefence = 9
airdefence = 3
softattack = 2
hardattack = 1
airattack = 1
transportweight = 10
supplyconsumption = 1.2
fuelconsumption = 0
speed_cap_art = 3
speed_cap_eng = 4
speed_cap_at = 4
speed_cap_aa = 4
}