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since none of these flags were used in the western heraldic sense, there's nothing to force one interpretation over another; here's the skinny though:
the flags were used as outlined above: the yellow field/black eagle was used by lesser nobility and church officials, and is considered by most greeks nowadays to be "the" flag
the red field/yellow eagle would have only be hoisted in the emperor's presence; however the heraldic tradition of the time was to use this as arms of the emperor and/or the empire in western rolls of arms (see the later arms of the gonzaga family of mantua: they married into the palaiologo family, and therefore added the palaiologo arms, but also added the red field/yellow eagle as an imperial pretention... which probably meant next to nothing by that time)
so the logic in that case would be: arms of the emperor; these are the emperor's lands - it works, but then the flag and shield set would conflict with the current trebizond (whose imperial banner would have likewise been only raised in the presence of its emperor)
what i do personally is use the palaiologo set for byzantium, and the comneno set for trebizond; of course, any number of combinations are possible
as far as the palaiologo arms then, the blason only calls for the colors red and yellow; the green outlining is a feature unique to the quartered saint george/palaiologo banner
steph
Originally posted by Birger Jarl
The La Plata shield is only a remake of Trajanus previous shield: I haven't done any research at all
i'm confused by this: if you hadn't done any research and therefore there's nothing to say yours is more accurate than his (and nothing to say anything is wrong with his), then why put yours in a guf/sm update? why not just put it on your site so anyone interested can just download it separately?
how would you feel if you were trajanus?
to the best of my understanding: antonio acciajuoli was officially invested as duke of athens and thebes subject to venice shortly before the beginning of the game; his investiture was recognized by everyone except the aragonese
beyond that, i couldn't tell you if the arms of state ever changed from say othon de la roche to him; i can only tell what his arms were
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Originally posted by Iostephanos
i'm confused by this: if you hadn't done any research and therefore there's nothing to say yours is more accurate than his (and nothing to say anything is wrong with his), then why put yours in a guf/sm update? why not just put it on your site so anyone interested can just download it separately?
how would you feel if you were trajanus?
No need to get upset, as you can see this isn't a "official" update, it's my personal. (It actually says BJ's Update Mod For GUFSM 0.2)
So I only included shields that I've done, nothing more than that.
The La Plata shield is based on the info that I found
here, without the supporters. (Not considered research by me
)
Originally posted by Mad King James
speaking of which, let's all finish off that gufsm once and for all
my thought also.
EDIT: What shields/flags do we have left to do?
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We need to:
Decide on a Burgundian flag once and for all (I say just use the same flag for Spain and Burgundy, and to hell with whether it looks similar)
Bantus set
Shield for Columbia
Chimu set
Creek set
Fez set
Malwa set
Mataram set
Lenape set
Mysore set
Natives set
Navaho set
Orissa set
Pegu set
Rebels set
Shawnee set
Songhai set
Vijayanagar set
Zanj flag
Zapotec set
And once I get the right tamgas from tuna I can redo the turkish sets.
Decide on a Burgundian flag once and for all (I say just use the same flag for Spain and Burgundy, and to hell with whether it looks similar
)Bantus set
Shield for Columbia
Chimu set
Creek set
Fez set
Malwa set
Mataram set
Lenape set
Mysore set
Natives set
Navaho set
Orissa set
Pegu set
Rebels set
Shawnee set
Songhai set
Vijayanagar set
Zanj flag
Zapotec set
And once I get the right tamgas from tuna I can redo the turkish sets.
Originally posted by Mad King James
We need to:
Decide on a Burgundian flag once and for all (I say just use the same flag for Spain and Burgundy, and to hell with whether it looks similar
Sounds great,
and these sets are done.
Bantus is unnecessary - it's not in any of the standard scenarios, either as a starter or revolter.
Originally posted by Birger Jarl
No need to get upset, as you can see this isn't a "official" update, it's my personal. (It actually says BJ's Update Mod For GUFSM 0.2)
So I only included shields that I've done, nothing more than that.
The La Plata shield is based on the info that I found
here, without the supporters. (Not considered research by me
i'm not upset, i just got up on the wrong side of the bed that morning; anyway, the real point was:
(your version is the more correct interpretation by the way, as the wreath and sun are probably supporters, but...) since we don't know what to use for la plata, i didn't see the point in replacing a placeholder, especially since it was well done (does anyone know when those arms were adopted?)
anyway, what do we know about the history of argentina? international civic arms has the oldest known arms for buenos aires from the 1500's... did argentina start from there? should we use those?
steph
The colors white, blue, yellow and black is ceremonial colors and
are a recurring theme in the stories and legends of the Navajo. One of the primary occurrences of the four colors is in the Navajo story of creation.
What about something like this for the shield and flag?
QUOTE from Wappenlexicon - Argentina , (and translated with www.FreeTranslation.com):
The state gift meeting of the united provinces Rio de la Plata at the 12.03.1813 had a seal concluded, of which the Argentinian country crest diverts itself. It shows an in blue and silver divided oval. On that two connected hands are duplicated, behind which a pole with Jokobinermütze is located. The Jokobinermütze counted as a sign of the freedom because it became already during the French revolution 1789 the international freedom symbol. The hands symbolize the unit and solidarity of the people. The oval laurel wreath, with a blue volume bound together and a golden sun. Also counts as a sign of freedom.
The Rio de la Plata (silver current) was discovered 1516 by the Spaniards. The current capital Buenos Aires was established 1535. Since 1776 Argentina, that recovered its name after the assumed Silberrichtum (lat. argentum for silver), the vice kingdom Buenos Aires or La Plata has formed. 1810 in the Spanish colony at the Rio de la Plata the battle against the Spanish predominance, that led 1816 to the independence of the united provinces Rio de la Plata, in 1825 the confederations Argentina was created and in 1852 the province Buenos Aires declared itself for independently. The Argentinian confederation was transformed already 1853 into the republic Argentina.
The blue and black blend unpleasantly in the first two; it'll be worse on the flag. The third one (again, especially on the flag) looks a bit too close to the white and black quarters of the natives flag. So here's a vote for the fourth.Originally posted by Birger Jarl
And here are some flags to go with them:
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Great!
I'll make the shield asap.
Btw, happy bday man!
EDIT:
I've tried to make these two flag but I can't get it to look right... Maybe you can?
- Bosnia banner of arms
- Salzburg banner of arms
I'll make the shield asap.
Btw, happy bday man!
EDIT:
I've tried to make these two flag but I can't get it to look right... Maybe you can?
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Hunh. That still shows up? Hasn't for me since the server problems last week, nor the who's-online and who's-reading-this-forum lists. Maybe I turned them off by accident somehow.Originally posted by Birger Jarl
Btw, happy bday man!
I prefer the 2:3 Salzburg, and not just because of the glitch I made in the square one.
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i've made some flags for bavaria with the fusils going the correct direction here if you're interested (are we sure the correct dimensions are 4:5?)
steph
steph
Originally posted by Korath
Hunh. That still shows up? Hasn't for me since the server problems last week, nor the who's-online and who's-reading-this-forum lists. Maybe I turned them off by accident somehow.
Bosnia Banner-of-Arms
Salzburg Banner-of-Arms (square)
Salzburg Banner-of-Arms (2:3)
I prefer the 2:3 Salzburg, and not just because of the glitch I made in the square one.
Looking good, great job Korath!
Here's some new arms that really keeps bugging me...
Taken from here
1. Helvetica?
2. Landgarvatia of Alsace?
3. -
4. -
5. -
6. Archbishopric of Cologne?
7. Kleve?
And these are from 1645...
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