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Haha, I thought that I would get lots of "Respectfully Disagree" kicks for my postings from frustrated people.
Guys, maybe you want to elaborate with what part of my posting you do not agree. Are you saying that you prefer to be concerned about wild speculation and assumptions instead of focusing on facts? Is this really the world you live in? Are you so frustrated that you prefer to just click angry buttons in the background instead of having a de-emotionalized conversation about facts? Or did you simply not read my posting carefully enough?
 
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I don't want them to have control over what players do. And the fact some server is operational for over 20 years doesn't neglect the fact most games don't last that long. Once the sales get below their expectations it will most likely be dead.
The Steam Workshop is better with no quality control?

There are some really nice assets there but they are totally unusable due to no LOD, have too many polygons, missing dependencies that no one can find because they were pulled from Steam for one reason or another. There are version updates that are difficult to manage, and besides once you download your content isn't it yours to use anyway?

A product being around 20 years from now depends upon the genre and passion for the game not only by the company but also the userbase. If it's yet another online blood and guts shooter game, well then yeah that's a good point.

With a program such as Cities, or Trainz Railroad Simulator, or some other long-term game/program, that's different. When I was using Cities 1, I had cities I carried over from the very beginning and updated them with each interim version usually without issue because I use very few mods. With the Trainz routes I have created, I have one that's still operational that was created in January 2004 in the very ancient TRS2004 and I had just gotten the game in December 2003. My construction was a way bit off but that's another story and it surely brings some laughs with the overly done hills and poor but usable track laying. Going through and renovating the older baseboards from this route has brought that to the current state and I easily merged parts of the old into the new revised version which is far larger.

Take a look at N3V's Download Station aka the DLS. It was launched in 2002. There are currently close to 750K assets as of today available for download. This is all user-created content and typical of user-created content some of it is better than others. You pick the content-creators you like and download their content. The advantage is for the most part, nearly all the dependencies are there and through their system are downloaded automatically. What doesn't work is when people host content elsewhere and then that starts the dependency hunt. There's also error-checking on uploads and their Content Manager has further error-checking. With each version update, there has been increasing error-checking that flag more and more faulty assets, much to the chagrin of many users because what was supposedly working before now doesn't, but that's a whole new bag of wax to unwrap.

N3V's system also has automatic versioning built-in. When the content-creator follows the rules, an asset can be automatically obsoleted and replaced without needing to delete a previous version first and unsubscribing from the author, hunting for .xml files, and doing other crazy things to remove an asset or mod. This has worked flawlessly and the only time asset is broken is when the content-creator has created a buggy replacement, or requires a user to replace an asset manually, with program updates being another issue if the author hasn't updated his scripts to work in the new updates. This is all done through a unique ID system called the KUID system, or Kewl User ID. This is a multi-part ID system that is associated to every asset installed and is set up as follows: KUID2:USER_ID:ASSET_ID:VERSION. The previous KUID: is obsolete due to a quirky and sometimes messy implementation, but is still fully supported to allow older assets to be used.

The complete content management system is done via their Content Manager. You can sort assets by the usual name, type, install date, and so on in addition to further filtering such as on the DLS, obsolete, needing updating, etc. Obsolete assets can be easily deleted leaving the new ones in place without affecting the rest of the operation, and finally asset modification, repairing, and editing is done through Content Manager

So, I beg to differ that a program won't be around in 20 years from now. Heck, if you think about it, we may not either given the current times.
 
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Haha, I thought that I would get lots of "Respectfully Disagree" kicks for my postings from frustrated people.
Guys, maybe you want to elaborate with what part of my posting you do not agree. Are you saying that you prefer to be concerned about wild speculation and assumptions instead of focusing on facts? Is this really the world you live in? Are you so frustrated that you prefer to just click angry buttons in the background instead of having a de-emotionalized conversation about facts? Or did you simply not read my posting carefully enough?
They don't read the posts...
 
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So Maddie stated in the latest stream, that PDX Mods will be free forever and the modding capabilities will be at least the same for PCs as in CS1.

And it was also clearly said that the current Paradox Mods from other games is not what they will use for CS2. From what I understood, they will integrate their own platform into the game.

She chose her words very wisely but also stated that they are fully aware of all the concerns. It would be disaster for their long term goals (and profizs of course) to cut down modding in this series in my opionion. Games like this live from user content in the long term.

And an ingame mod browser with all its options can work very, very well WHEN done right. I will stay with my pre order, because I want to play the game, but I fully understand the worries and even share them to some extend.
 
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Steam workshop was crucial to the succes of Cities 1 as flaws could be ironed out and functionality added, so I understand many peoples worries.
But change doesn't have to be bad, change is good. As said various times by them it seems that all that could be done in Steam workshop can be done by the Paradox mod platform. Don't think Paradox and CO will make such a change to something which is working out so well for them as the risk of killing this is to great. So I'm confident this will work.
As console player I welcome the asset library and would like to see more on what the editor can do for this platform.

And code modders currently working on stuff for CO and Paradox for the Windows platform, any chance to include some extra functionality and possibilities in the console version of the program by update? No need to be able to code mod there than.



I'm looking forward to the release and spring release on console, I reckon it be brilliant and with upcoming DLC it be better that CS1.
 
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The Steam Workshop is better with no quality control?

There are some really nice assets there but they are totally unusable due to no LOD, have too many polygons, missing dependencies that no one can find because they were pulled from Steam for one reason or another. There are version updates that are difficult to manage, and besides once you download your content isn't it yours to use anyway?
The CS Steam workshop is already curated by Paradox, so the quality control will be potentially the same, no better or worse. From Algernon's mouth:
Are you aware that having their own platform isn't going to give Paradox any additional ability to curate over what they already have with Steam? Paradox has had the ability to curate mods on the Steam Workshop since, well, ever. They can take down any mod or asset they want to at any time, for whatever reason they want (and even for no reason at all). There's no checks on their "power" on their workshop (and no, Valve doesn't care what their publisher clients do on the workshop, and certainly doesn't act as any "check" on what Paradox can do). I find it bizarre that some people insist that content on the Workshop is somehow "magically protected" by Valve's high wizards or whatever they think is going on, when the reality is so very different.

 
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And it was also clearly said that the current Paradox Mods from other games is not what they will use for CS2. From what I understood, they will integrate their own platform into the game.

She chose her words very wisely but also stated that they are fully aware of all the concerns. It would be disaster for their long term goals (and profizs of course) to cut down modding in this series in my opionion. Games like this live from user content in the long term.

And an ingame mod browser with all its options can work very, very well WHEN done right. I will stay with my pre order, because I want to play the game, but I fully understand the worries and even share them to some extend.
This means, you have to start the game before you browse. And then you install some serious in-depth mods, that require a restart.. here we go: the restart parade begins.
 
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The CS Steam workshop is already curated by Paradox, so the quality control will be potentially the same, no better or worse. From Algernon's mouth:


Well, there is one thing that Paradox can do better in their own platform than in the workshop: handling duplicate uploads and policing, simply because they can scan the files. This is not necessarily a bad thing. A mod that would be removed eventually under the old system can still "infect" and hence ruin a few savefiles before that.

Also, generally customizing the platform for needs specific to CS2 is something that was not possible before. The Steam workshop is a useful tool for smaller collections, but in CS1, subscribing to hundreds and thousands of assets is not totally uncommon. The Steam workshop just fails there.

This means, you have to start the game before you browse. And then you install some serious in-depth mods, that require a restart.. here we go: the restart parade begins.
This wasn't any different before, as you often had to enable the mod inside the game and then restart.
 
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"Paradox Mods" on title screen in the showcases was EXACTLY the reason why I did not pre-order the game, as I suspected but I still can't believe it.

Lack of Steam Workshop is unacceptable to me, PDX could have done T&C and make mod creation upload to both Steam and PDX mod platforms same time, the decision to abandon Steam Workshop is beyond me as this was THE VERY THING than made the first game so popular.

Sorry to see one of my beloved franchisees ignoring platform of players choice,
again, I have no problem with other platforms and PDX Mods, they can exists, it's the lack of SW support is what's the problem

Let's hope this is something that will be reversed in future, although I somehow doubt it.
 
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For all my experience in videogame, never seen a game which had a major improvement in performance after release.

So if the performance is trash at release it will be trash for a long time. There is no magic button to double fps on a game.

Like it has already said they use a trash engine which is unity, an engine not design for this kind of game. So there is no miracle for the performance.

CO is trying to sell us some dream and hope.
Yeah, their biggest miss was using Unity. How dumb can they be to use such a bad engine. They should have done their research better before start developing the game.
 
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i bought a brand new pc a 2-3 years ago and so i have a 2070 super and i so far had not had a problem in ANY game with it running on high quality ...
if city skylines 2 rly makes problems with a 2070 super demanding a 3000er series ... this might be a reason not to buy it honestly

you say its a "long term" thing but then i might cancel my preorder and wait until this "long term" is reached :(

if you tell me there is no way i can run this game on high quality with a 2070 super ... i might come back later in a few years after upgrading my pc which i not plan until 2025 because even new highend games so far run 2070 on high quality perfectly fine

PS: also not using steam workshop is a 2nd strike so i guess thats a cancel then
 
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I have all paradox games, nearly all dlc's. In games like stellaris, cs and eu4 1000+ hours. I really love your games.

This is the first time I refunded my pre-order. What the heck is this release? You want me to pay 90€ for this? This is shameless and disrespectful.

You guys have a loyal and unique player base. Do not screw them up in ways like this.
 
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I don't really care about the performance, since I'm quite happy to run the game on lower settings until things get patched (which usually means: I play for around 10 days, get bored, and come back to the game 6 months later when it's fixed).
What really baffles me is the decision not to support the Steam Workshop. It's a decision that benefits exactly no one, that just stinks of corporate ladder.
Unless they make the system actually better than the Workshop, interest in modding and the game will just die off. Especially because CS1 was only playable thanks to modders.
 
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I don't really care about the performance, since I'm quite happy to run the game on lower settings until things get patched (which usually means: I play for around 10 days, get bored, and come back to the game 6 months later when it's fixed).
What really baffles me is the decision not to support the Steam Workshop. It's a decision that benefits exactly no one, that just stinks of corporate ladder.
Unless they make the system actually better than the Workshop, interest in modding and the game will just die off. Especially because CS1 was only playable thanks to modders.

I agree, I would be disappointed if the game wasn't overloaded and lagging. It shows the devs have taken the game seriously and at least advanced the AI enough to stress a console system. With optimizations and tech advances, the game will be able to handle a bunch of workshop in the future, much like CS1.

I just hope no one who has seriously played CS1 will be disillusioned to find out that CS2 has the same business model as CS1. I expect nothing to change from CS1 in that regard.

In other words, I don't want photoshop, I want a stimulating simulation! even if a little gamey simulation..
 
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Depending on how the new modding platform is, it might be way better than the workshop. The workshop is actually shit for mods, it's a pain to see which mods are outdated and its also a pain to switch between different saves with different mods.

I hope the modding platform is like the one Factorio has. It's so good! You can sync you current active mods to the game save so you can just open any save and it will ask you if you want to load the right mods. Version control is also way easier since the game just tells you what mods are outdated and which are not.

Unfortunately there is a risk that the mod platform will be shit, and some aspect of monitisation will come. They might also want to restrict mods which mimic DLCs in someway.
The workshop its actually great, the reason many mods dont show more info is because the devs dont add but…
 
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Does anyone know if Paradox will be allowing people to manually "side-load" mods that weren't found on the Paradox website? There are other mod sites out there that have existed for a long time. I'd like to know if Paradox has commented on people using them.