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unmerged(6777)

Field Marshal
Dec 10, 2001
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Any thoughts people might have on this would be greatly appreciated...

Peter E, Norgesvenn and I tried to connect for a direct IP game of EU2 when vNet went down over the weekend but none of us could connect to the other. None of us is a newbie, we are all on cable...etc.
  • Peter is running a completely clean, un-modded SF version with the NA1.05 patch applied. When he tried to host, neither Norg or I could get in. He was unable to join when either Norg or I tried to host instead. This is the same installation that he uses for the MGC4 so he is obviously able to play with most otehr people.
  • Norgesvann is running the Scandinavian release, clean install patched to 1.05, no mods, not file changes. Neither Peter nor I could connect when he tried to host, and he couldn't join either of our games when we tried to host. We have had no trouble over vNet but have never been able to have him otherwise.
  • I am running a clean SF install of NA 1.05 with no mods, no file changes, etc. I couldn't even connect to Peter or host for him...the same "incompatible version" message would appear, even though we're both running SF versions with 1.05NA patch! Norg couldn't connect to me, and I couldn't connect to Norg. I have a couple friends here in Canada with whom I have absolutely no trouble connecting (and they are running SF 1.05NA).

Before you ask....Norg and both did a complete uninstall (i.e. wiped the whole thing, deleted register keys, etc.) and reinstalled and re-patched so when I say "clean install" I really do mean squeaky clean. Note that we were definitely making contact since the message wasn't "no game found" but was a quick response with "incompatible versions". The computers can see each other, and I could easily ping Norg's computer (I didn't ping Peter's bu I'm certain that I "saw" his). I have a fixed static IP address so there should be absolutely no problem with ISP sub-routers. Yes...not only did I open up 23000-24000 + 47624, but I also tried completely disabling my firewall, as did Norg, and that had no effect.

I'm uncertain of Peter or Norg's OS but mine is WinXP (and yes, I was logged in under administrator for all operations, including the installs).

Any theories or suggestions?
 
I'm running Win ME, by the way. :)

This was a source of much debate on ICQ and MSN Messenger yesterday. :D
 
Hmmmm.....

I was just reading some responses to a thread I started in the HoI Support forum re DirectX 9.0 and was interested to read LG's comment:
dl'ed this and am having problems with EU mp. It will not allow me to dl the saved game file from others forcing me to have it sent over icq. But this does not always work so i am having problems with it

I have a 512 mb ram
Ge force 4 card
pentium 4
win xp

It just doesnt like EU so im gonna uninstall EU and re-install as it comes with 8.1 wish me luck

-------- then later -------

I just installed the 8.0 and it worked perfectly fine.
As it happens, I am running DirectX 9.0 at the moment because I am performing some extensive testing with EU2 to see what issues there are with it. Perhaps this is related to the problem that Peter and I were having? I should note that prior to going from DirectX 8.1 I was not able to connect to Norgesvenn's computer either (except through vNet), but I hadn't tried playing MP with Peter up to that point so it's possible that prior to my upgrade we would have been able to connect.

Does anyone happen to know which files are checked when connecting to establish that the versions are compatible?
 
Originally posted by Mowers
I would _love_ to know myself. I have seen this happen a number of times and its baffling.
I understand that Peter had trouble connecting to the MGC4 last night until he rebooted. What the heck stays in memory that requires this?!
 
Do you have direct x 9.0 installed? That is the problem. EU doesn't support direct x 9.0.

Problem for LG, when he tried to find DirX8.1 on the windows site, it gave him the 9.0 instead. So we had to do a work around and I forced LG to reinstall EU2. The reinstall would of given him the 8.0 which should of still worked, but LG was having problems connecting and downloading from me.

After that I told him to ignore the download problem and let me send the ICQ file to him. This worked fine and he could join us and play. Also do any of you have Win XP? LG has it and that is causing alot of problems with EU2. For some reason even if LG doesn't have direct X 9.0 installed, he can't connect and download the file from me. Sending the file through ICQ was the only way he can join the game.

Duma
 
Originally posted by Eradius
Do you have direct x 9.0 installed? That is the problem. EU doesn't support direct x 9.0.

Problem for LG, when he tried to find DirX8.1 on the windows site, it gave him the 9.0 instead. So we had to do a work around and I forced LG to reinstall EU2. The reinstall would of given him the 8.0 which should of still worked, but LG was having problems connecting and downloading from me.

After that I told him to ignore the download problem and let me send the ICQ file to him. This worked fine and he could join us and play. Also do any of you have Win XP? LG has it and that is causing alot of problems with EU2. For some reason even if LG doesn't have direct X 9.0 installed, he can't connect and download the file from me. Sending the file through ICQ was the only way he can join the game.

Duma
I don't think so....

Let me give you the chronology again, and some things I know:

1. When I was running WinXP with DirectX 8.1 and 1.05 patch I had no trouble linking under direct IP MP to anyone else local (i.e. people in the Toronto area that I know). I have played many games. I could not, however, connect to Norgesvenn who was running the Scandinavian version. The only problems I had was a persistent crash when I allowed the binkply clips to play at the begining...easily solved by renaming the avi folder...and also I was forced to reduce hardware acceleration to have clean sound. We were able to play with no problems via vNet.

2. Next, I upgraded to WinXP SP1 and added the Q327979-related fix and this completely cured the binkplay issue and I was able to return to full hardware acceleration. I still had no trouble connecting Direct IP to local players but could not connect to Norgesvenn's Scandinavian version (nor he to mine). Again, we had no problems playing through vNet.

3. Next I upgraded last week to DirectX 9.0 because I am responsible for the EU2 Support forum and I thought that I had better find out what bugs I was going to run into before too many people began reporting them. I immediately crashed after the binkplay had finished so I was forced to disable it. I've played about 40 hours now with it and have had no problems (vieo or audio) whatsoever.

4. I also played multiplayer for a number of hours with a vNet connection...again, no problem. I was also able to make a direct IP connection with a local player (SF 1.05NA). Files were sent via ICQ, via e-mail and via the in-game link...again, all with no problems.

5. Then vNet went down on Saturday and I wanted to play an MP game with Rictus and Norgesvenn. Rictus (who I think has an SF version) had no problem connecting. Norgesvenn couldn't, however so we scrapped the arranged game.

6. Yesterday Norgesvenn and spent some 3 or four hours comparing files and ensuring that all apparent running files (Db folder, config folder, etc) were identical. Still no connection, so we contacted Peter to see if he could come up with any idea. Since Peter's running the SF 1.05NA version, we tried connecting....but no dice.

7. Peter has since informed me that he was running a modded version of EU2 prior to our attempt. When we tried to connect, he had launched EU2 again with the "clean" install he keeps for MP games. Leter, when he tried to connect for the MGC4, he also couldn't connect. After rebooting his computer he was able to connect, though. I think it's quite possible that if he had done so earlier when we were testing the connection, we would probably have been able to do so...but we didn't think of it at the time.

8. I have no trouble "seeing" Norgesvenn's computer...it quite happily responds when I ping it. I also know that initial connections protocols of some sort are happening because I'm not getting a "game not found at that address" message.

What I'm describing as a failure to connect is a problem that occurs when you first try to link to play...immediately after one person selects Multiplayer->Internet->Host and the other player(s) selects Multiplayer->Internet->Join (with the correct IP provided). Our standard practice is to wait until all players have joined before the host selects the scenario or save game...and this doesn't happen because when the players try to connect to the host they get the "Incompatible version" dialogue box. As a result, the in-game download of a save game issue never cropped up because one was never selected. As it happens, when Norg and I have tried to connect he has had a save game copy on his hard drive that I e-mailed to him and he unpacked to his save game folder.

This leads me to think that there may be some unusual things happening here, to draw some preliminary conclusions, and to ask a few questions that I don't yet know the answers to...
  • Something appears to be acting almost as a TSR to cause the problem Peter had. What is it?
  • There is some file that is unique to certain distribution versions of the game that causes a mismatch error. What is it?
  • EU2 obiously runs a compatibility check to confirm versions (we know this happens...and should happen). What files does it check to establish compatibility?
  • I do not believe that XP is at fault here...I have been playing with XP for at least 6 months with no problems other than being unable to connect to Norgesvenn via direct IP.
  • I am not convinced that it is a DirectX 9.0 issue either since I have been able to direct IP connect with another player who has a different OS (Win2k) and is still on DirectX 8.1, and I also experienced the problems prior to implementing the upgrade.
If there's anyone who happens to know the answers to any of the above or who can add to the "database" of what we know and don't know, please post here.

Other thoughts:

From the DirectX developer documentation:
  • A limitation of the Windows2000 Kernel can result in some resources being freed while the resource is locked and being accessed by the application. This results in the app writing to freed memory, causing an exception.

    The problem only occurs with D3DPOOL_DEFAULT resources that the display driver chooses to place in system memory. When the device is put into a lost state (due to a mode change or ALT+TAB), all D3DPOOL_DEFAULT resources are freed. Direct3D has code to alias video memory resource pointers and redirect them to a dummy page, but D3DPOOL_DEFAULT system memory resources are not protected. The most common D3DPOOL_DEFAULT resources that get placed in system memory are Index Buffers, but some drivers may choose to place other resources in system memory as well. Apps can protect themselves by wrapping all resource accesses inside try…catch blocks.
I'm wondering if this could be linked to some of the problems we've seen that require reduced acceleration and/or binkplay errors?


Mowers: were you able to come up with any "cause" clues when you have had problems with any of your MP games?

Eradius: I read LG's report on the MP issue in the HoI support forum. I would really like more details on his issue before drawing any conclusions about DirectX 9.0. Most importantly, I would like to know how DirectX 9.0 could be involved in the problem...unless the above buffer issue is somehow responsible?
 
I am very pleased that someone is looking at this.

Unfortunately whilst I have encountered the problem I have never understood it and thus, regretably I have little of use to add. However I will start asking people to look and comment on this thread when we next encounter the problem.
 
Originally posted by Mowers
I am very pleased that someone is looking at this.

Unfortunately whilst I have encountered the problem I have never understood it and thus, regretably I have little of use to add. However I will start asking people to look and comment on this thread when we next encounter the problem.
Great. Anything that you or anyone else can add to help me track it down will be greatly appreciated. When Johan gets back next week I'll see if I can talk him into having a quick look at it as well - he'll be swamped, presumably, with HoI related stuff but might be able to take a quick look and provide us with some insights. I'll keep you all posted...
 
Just to add this:

The files have corresponding dates these days. There are no discrepancies there. I suspect some copy-protection issues.
 
Are any of you using a no-cd exe file??

and what firewall software are you using?
 
Originally posted by kurtbrian
Are any of you using a no-cd exe file??

and what firewall software are you using?
My version (SF) requires the CD to play. I'm not sure about Norgesvenn's version (Vision, I believe, so probably...).

I'm using the built-in XP firewall but even if I disable it completely (which I hate doing!) I still can't connect. When we were trying out that possibility, Norgesvenn also put himself in the dmz so we were both completely open.
 
Originally posted by kurtbrian
Are any of you using a no-cd exe file??

and what firewall software are you using?
Nope, standard SF1.05, and I even granted EU2 all rights to bypass my Norton Internet Security firewall.

Still, it is passing strange. It does sound like something stayed resident from my prior EU2 run using modded files, but that should not be the case.

Additionally, it should not be a question of some files from the mod being cached in memory and then used rather than loaded from the HD, since I use a physically distinct EU2 installation for MP which is unmodded.
I'd give my arm* to know exactly which data is checked for version consistence.


MrT, let us try again sometime soon, if only to check whether we can connect from a clear rebooted state.


* Well, somebody else's arm. No need to waste a perfectly good arm.
 
Not sure if this helps, if not MrT please delete, but

The Scandinavian version has trouble recognizing most CD-drives, therefore Patric has posted a work around including an installation procedure copying the entire disc onto HD (except CP files :) ) and a new file replacing something on the disc.

Presumably Norg installed this way? And that caused at least his problems getting connected?

V
 
Vald: I'll check with him. I don't think that's related but anything's possible.

PE and I just conducted some more testing.

Here's a rough "log" of what we did and what happened. Peter may add to this later...
  • Immediately before first connecting, we both rebooted completely (I did a cold boot. I think Peter did a warm boot).
  • We both launched clean un-modded versions of EU2
  • Peter hosted and I had no problem connecting. He selected the 1492 scenario and off we went...no problems at all.
  • After letting the game run for about a month, Peter paused and saved and we exitted.
  • Next he sent me the save game via e-mail and the current release of the SSREM that he has on his computer. In retrospect we should probably have taken this one step at a time, but we didn't so...
  • I added the SSREM to my \Db\Events folder and placed the save game in my \Scenarios\Save Games folder.
  • We then tried to connect and I got a "Version not compatible" message. :mad:
  • We both then quit and rebooted (warm boot for me this time).
  • Making no other changes, we tried connecting again and had absolutely no problems. Peter selected the save game and I chose a different country and off we went.
  • After exitting again, I deleted the save game from my folder.
  • We tried connecting again...this time successfully, but when Peter selected the save game it did not pack and transfer.
  • He had a copy of the latest MGC4 game so he tried selecting that instead...it elicitted no response either.
  • Thinking it might be a firewall issue, I disabled mine, we both then rebooted (warm) again, and then tried once more. No effect. The save game would not transfer, not would the MGC4 game.
  • At this point the Conqueror required food so we called it quits for the day's tests.
It would seem, from this, that for some reason there's a TSR of some sort that requires a reboot to correct. It would also seem that something is interfering with the in-game transfer function so all save games must be sent via alternate methods. This is just as well since the in-game feature is not exactly renowned for being reliable anyway.

We were both running SF (NA) versions of the game. Peter has DX8.1 whereas I'm running DX9.0...not that I can understand why this would be an issue.

It would seem that part A of the work-around would be to:

1. Reboot imediately before trying to play. A warm boot seems sufficient.
2. Always rely on alternate methods for save game transfer (ICQ/e-mail/etc.)

If there's anyone out there who wouldn't mind spending an hour or two continuing some of these tests this afternoon, I'd very much like to try some stuff with:

- someone else who has a clean, un-modded version of the SF 1.05

and/or

- someone who has a non-SF version of the game.

ICQ me at 162509571. If you don't see me, it's because I'm already running tests with someone else.

* * * * *

Anything to add Peter?
 
Would have loved to help, but I'm behind a company Firewall, so no dice :( Good luck with your tests

V

EDIT, the Scandinavian thing and Norg, I know it probably isn't related to your problems on the SF versions, but you mentioned trouble for Norg in general in your first post.
 
As a once big time mp'er ;) I ran into this problem extensivly around october :confused: We tried 2 different hosts and we kept having the same problems. Once i even got in, and then tried again and no dice! so im not sure what affects it. It hasnt been happening too much lately. currently an game is going up and it is fine to get into. i dont know what the problem is :( But this problem with me not being able to load the saved game files is REALLY annoying and i cannot seem to realize why :mad: or anyone else for that matter :(
 
Does the fool and the conquerer have the same Windows version?

could it be some sort issue with different versions of windows?
 
windows difference shouldnt really matter. I play with people that have windows 98 xp office edition, windows me, doesnt really matter =/
 
I have had some problems with win2000 vs other versions (XP and Win98 mostly)