Very high amount of hearses needed!

[Seth C Triggs]

This is happening to me too so I believe I will need to add a bunch more crematoria. The death rate is actually outsripping the cremation rate so I am going to be in big trouble.

The city is doing great otherwise though. I do have population increase at least.

I think I am basically coasting on my birth rate. But definitely going to have to add a bunch of resources. I don't know that I'll be able to catch up.

You can get this city here:

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

I do hope this rebalance smooths out eventually. My sim speed is very slow at this population because of the large number of agents so it'll take a long time to rebalance for sure.

 

[fedanielo]

That's crazy! I'm sorry.

Neither of the cities that I've been investigating experienced a population loss. Both cities have increased in population since the patch was applied to it. Haven't zoned a single thing. In the city above population is increasing from building leveling alone and new larger households moving in.

What's bothering me is that the city above has now passed 4,300 deaths/month whereas the larger city maxed out at less than 2,500 deaths/month and has dropped back down to 1,700/month. Both cities had about the same healthcare coverage and same level of health of its citizens.

It's a shame for who designed the city as they spent a lot of time and attention to detail recreating an old world city, but I'd abandon it at this point.

I have been waiting for Hearses to do their job. It's gonna take a while.

The thing is, that at this rate, in three months they will die. This is abnormal for sure.

 

[Seth C Triggs]

I have been waiting for Hearses to do their job. It's gonna take a while.

The thing is, that at this rate, in three months they will die. This is abnormal for sure.

The scary thing is I don't think the crematoria have the capacity to process the bodies fast enough with the new deathrate. I'm now at over 3K. A maxed out crematorium only has space for 45 bodies. The math is not looking good.

A good workaround would be a massive buff of the processing speed for the crematorium. It might not be as realistic but we need it. Also we need ways to empty cemeteries into crematoria or include a crematorium expansion to make room. Continuously plopping cemeteries isn't going to work well for us.

 

[Solus722]

The scary thing is I don't think the crematoria have the capacity to process the bodies fast enough with the new deathrate. I'm now at over 3K. A maxed out crematorium only has space for 45 bodies. The math is not looking good.


A good workaround would be a massive buff of the processing speed for the crematorium. It might not be as realistic but we need it. Also we need ways to empty cemeteries into crematoria or include a crematorium expansion to make room. Continuously plopping cemeteries isn't going to work well for us.

The only advice I can give you is to build many, many, many... more crematoriums, especially since you have the means.
When this happened to me, I no longer remember the number but I must have had a good fifty minimum, in order to speed up the processing, then demolish them

 

[joewagner501]

A modern day version of the Black Plague.

 

[Civ5rako]

The only advice I can give you is to build many, many, many... more crematoriums, especially since you have the means.
When this happened to me, I no longer remember the number but I must have had a good fifty minimum, in order to speed up the processing, then demolish them

I have my doubts about a game mechanic which requires you to do so.

 

[rsimpson64]

because of the large number of agents so it'll take a long time to rebalance for sure.

Hey Seth!

Thanks for sharing your city. It brought my rig to its knees. Best I could manage was a 0.4 smooth speed. Could actually watch the airplanes slowly moving across the map.

In my opinion:

• Great road hierarchy
• Good traffic flow
• Stellar job on your education system
• You need to get your crematorium capacity north of 4,000/month.

I suspect over time you city will settle to a 4,000 death rate per month.

I did add some crematoriums and assigned them to districts. I did deactivate some of your hearse garages so those crematoriums don't get overloaded.

It didn't appear to make a dent getting handling capacity to 5,801/month, but I attribute that to the slow simulation speed (it just takes so long for the hearse to leave the deathcare facility - get to the gathering point - and return to the deathcare facility) and the surplus of dead.

I decided to use Magical Hearse to Thanos snap the dead out then reload the game with no mods to see if the deathcare could keep up.

It appeared to, but only a brief period of game time elapsed. Every now and then I'd see a hearse depart to pick up a dead body (no notification shown).

I've attached that save if you want to check it out.

But your city has another problem - homeless.

 

[rsimpson64]

crematoria have the capacity to process the bodies fast enough with the new deathrate

I'd like to see a morgue add-on for hospitals so that ambulances could also pick up the dead. "Bring out your dead!"

 

[rsimpson64]

I have been waiting for Hearses to do their job. It's gonna take a while.

If you can use mods you can try Magical Hearse. You can always disable the mod once the bodies go poof

 

[Caprea.Berlin]

As cims live as many days as humans live years, there are about 365 times the number of death each day in a CS2 city than in a similar real life city.
If we assume that crematorium work about 200 days a year, either the capacity of crematoriums ingame must be 200 times that of a real life crematorium or we must build 200 times the number of crematoriums.
Or do I make a mistake here?

 

[Seth C Triggs]

Hey Seth!

Thanks for sharing your city. It brought my rig to its knees. Best I could manage was a 0.4 smooth speed. Could actually watch the airplanes slowly moving across the map.

In my opinion:

• Great road hierarchy
• Good traffic flow
• Stellar job on your education system
• You need to get your crematorium capacity north of 4,000/month.

I suspect over time you city will settle to a 4,000 death rate per month.

I did add some crematoriums and assigned them to districts. I did deactivate some of your hearse garages so those crematoriums don't get overloaded.

It didn't appear to make a dent getting handling capacity to 5,801/month, but I attribute that to the slow simulation speed (it just takes so long for the hearse to leave the deathcare facility - get to the gathering point - and return to the deathcare facility) and the surplus of dead.

I decided to use Magical Hearse to Thanos snap the dead out then reload the game with no mods to see if the deathcare could keep up.

It appeared to, but only a brief period of game time elapsed. Every now and then I'd see a hearse depart to pick up a dead body (no notification shown).

I've attached that save if you want to check it out.

But your city has another problem - homeless.

Thanks!

My sim speed is just going to be slow, though the performance is surprisingly good on Linux. It's the pathfinding cost for sure. I'll see if I can stab in a few more crematoria around the map. It's so frustrating since a whole lot of other bugs were fixed IMO. 4.000 deaths per month in a 500K city seems...excessive. But we'll see. I don't know if I am still in the tail end of the effects of the rebalance or not. Given the city size it's going to take a long time to work through the demographic shift.

I deliberately do not use mods mainly for support reasons, so I don't get my concerns slagged off as being mod-caused.

 

[rsimpson64]

As cims live as many days as humans live years, there are about 365 times the number of death each day in a CS2 city than in a similar real life city.
If we assume that crematorium work about 200 days a year, either the capacity of crematoriums ingame must be 200 times that of a real life crematorium or we must build 200 times the number of crematoriums.
Or do I make a mistake here?

Wow. It's too early in the morning to look at math like that for me. My head is spinning, my math skills are horrible!

Considering we have to overbuild other facilities like trash and healthcare I think you might be right as a straight line math problem. But it does appear that death and health calls occur on a timer independent of the simulation's smooth speed and that's at the core of the problem (imo). Its odd to me in the four or five cities I've looked at that I hardly ever see ambulance calls.

From a US point of view I would say the game is missing a crucial leg of the death care process, the funeral home. The funeral home would not have a storage capacity. In game, it should be where hearses depart from taking the dead to their final resting place. I've seen in the US homes in large cities converted into funeral homes.

 

[Caprea.Berlin]

..........But it does appear that death and health calls occur on a timer independent of the simulation's smooth speed and that's at the core of the problem (imo). Its odd to me in the four or five cities I've looked at that I hardly ever see ambulance calls.
.....

But that would result in a city on a computer with low simulation speed that more people are dying than on a good PC with high simulation speed? And therefore on the good PC the cims get older?

Well, everything is possible of course, but that does sound strange to me. And I really hope you are wrong in that assumptions.

The example posted here a bit above with 30% death rate is of course too high, that should not happen ( even so, I think there is a mod that could force the game to do that). So far I have seen a death rate of under 1% of the population in my cities, which in my eyes seems to be ok.

 

[rsimpson64]

And I really hope you are wrong in that assumptions.

Same here. Just been reporting visual observations. I do think that just like with traffic there are a couple of logic points in the game that influences when that occurs, just like the culling of traffic in high pop cities.

Your comments are excellent!

 

[rsimpson64]

Thanks!

My sim speed is just going to be slow, though the performance is surprisingly good on Linux. It's the pathfinding cost for sure. I'll see if I can stab in a few more crematoria around the map. It's so frustrating since a whole lot of other bugs were fixed IMO. 4.000 deaths per month in a 500K city seems...excessive. But we'll see. I don't know if I am still in the tail end of the effects of the rebalance or not. Given the city size it's going to take a long time to work through the demographic shift.

I deliberately do not use mods mainly for support reasons, so I don't get my concerns slagged off as being mod-caused.

After Caprea's posts I decided to revisit your city and wanted to share with you the results of my experiment.

First I wanted to address the homeless citizen count to reduce those numbers. I made your transit lines with external connections free. That dropped your homeless count for ~124K down to ~119K.

Then I wanted to see if a distributed network of the French Crematoriums (they are only 2x3 lot size) could address those dead bodies. My thinking being get the crematoriums closed to the bodies and reduce that simulation time.

They performed really well rarely passing 7 bodies waiting for processing.

Got down to the last five bodies. On my pc took about 3 hours real time.

Death rate had dropped to 3,400/month. Yay!

It was pure luck that I grabbed the screen shot above right at the beginning of a death wave. That's why all the hearse icons are showing and the red indicator by the population.

Paused the game through in more crematoriums and reloaded the game to keep the pathfinding clear.

As the dust settled from the deathwave.... Over 3,000 dead. Death rate now passing 4,000/month (but that will adjust down with time).

Le sigh

 

[Seth C Triggs]

After Caprea's posts I decided to revisit your city and wanted to share with you the results of my experiment.

First I wanted to address the homeless citizen count to reduce those numbers. I made your transit lines with external connections free. That dropped your homeless count for ~124K down to ~119K.

Then I wanted to see if a distributed network of the French Crematoriums (they are only 2x3 lot size) could address those dead bodies. My thinking being get the crematoriums closed to the bodies and reduce that simulation time.

They performed really well rarely passing 7 bodies waiting for processing.



Got down to the last five bodies. On my pc took about 3 hours real time.

Death rate had dropped to 3,400/month. Yay!

It was pure luck that I grabbed the screen shot above right at the beginning of a death wave. That's why all the hearse icons are showing and the red indicator by the population.



Paused the game through in more crematoriums and reloaded the game to keep the pathfinding clear.

As the dust settled from the deathwave.... Over 3,000 dead. Death rate now passing 4,000/month (but that will adjust down with time).




Le sigh

That seems very bad though. Also I had no idea there were 117,000 homeless people in the city. So that sounds like people aren't moving on or something. I'm really afraid to zone more housing because then I'm going to drive the city past one million and unplayable status.

I did update the city so you can use the same Dropbox links as before to download today's version. I think it's a really interesting experiment you did with my city.

Did you use a mod to find the large number of homeless people? And I wonder if that is the reason for the slow performance too? (I have generally been avoiding using parks because of that).

 

[rsimpson64]

That seems very bad though. Also I had no idea there were 117,000 homeless people in the city. So that sounds like people aren't moving on or something. I'm really afraid to zone more housing because then I'm going to drive the city past one million and unplayable status.

I did update the city so you can use the same Dropbox links as before to download today's version. I think it's a really interesting experiment you did with my city.

Did you use a mod to find the large number of homeless people? And I wonder if that is the reason for the slow performance too? (I have generally been avoiding using parks because of that).

I used -developerMode to determine homeless. One of the watches under count households.

It's the same value that info Loom reports for homeless, but I loaded your city on my pc with no mods.

I think the homeless count is why your residential demand appears to swing rapidly from none to some.

Just keep your external transit lines at free and zone low rent often-ish and they will get consumed and controlled by the game. In my testing welfare offices seems to also help. How much I can't tell.

I would even recommend bull dozing any low rent that spawns at higher than poor average wealth. If you do this zone small a building at a time. It will consume your high density demand.

I've been having a lot of fun testing with your city.

I did also run a test on your first upload of your city with bye bye homeless.
Population dropped 124K very rapidly (in about 10 real minutes). You budget went to -$23 million per month. Odd that the homeless pay their taxes.
It recovered fairly quickly afterwards which surprised me. Massive traffic jams from cims moving back in.

Cities never feel quite right to me after using bye bye homeless though. So I don't normally even have the mod installed.

 

[fedanielo]

I have been running hours of simulation after this. There is no amount of Crematoriums that will fix this.

I will bulldoze every place that need a Hearse. I tried, at least, to wait, but this won't be fixed.

 

[Infiniterocks]

The cemetery needs a mortuary building upgrade or something that increases hearse capacity and a funeral services office upgrade that would allow hearses from other crematories or cemeteries that are out of capacity to process bodies at cemeteries with this special upgrade to a certain extent. Basically if a crematory can't process bodies, but has hearses available, they can outsource body processing to a cemetery with a funeral services office upgrade

I wish we could get a new upgradeable mid-capacity and high capacity crematory as well. Maybe even an organ donor facility, that will take a dead adult or younger cim body and it will prevent another cim from dying, thus lowering death rate! (The balance comes from the age group requirement, since most deaths are seniors)

 

[Matiiu]

It's crazy, in general I don't have major problems with the stability of the game, but the bugs at the core of the game are a nightmare. I feel like the whole simulation is badly done, the proportions of the game are poorly calculated. I currently have almost 900 deaths per month in a town of 50,000, 4 extended crematoriums, one large extended cemetery and one small cemetery that is full.... Something is not right here...