Vicky Aberration

[unmerged(21937)]

EDIT: Redone whole post.

EDIT2: Don't mind the too broad title, I can't change that.

EDIT3: Made the title smaller.(AD)

So, this will be thread for planning Vicky Aberration, based on Aberration scenario and having one potential result of what happened. It's currently in "planning setup" phase, ideas are welcome, but I'll be project leader and compiler for this, so I'll reserve veto right. No, I won't shoot down good ideas because I dislike your avatar or the way you write.

Please feel free to post ideas, critic and anything else you think is important.

 

[TheArchduke]

Well, I guess you shouldn't have a default history from Aberration 1419 to 1820 upwards but just take it leisurely and think about what could be fun to play and interesting to have as an Aberration in 1836.

(Obviously, I fear, some would want to have a Byzantium.)

 

[yourworstnightm]

Yeah, I don't think Vicky-aberration should be about how EU2 aberration should have been, Vicky aberration should be a totally independent project from EU2 aberration.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

I think having Aberration as a base is good so that there is no need to reinvent the wheel.

Some ideas:

1) Brittany, Scotland and Eire all had colonial empires, mostly in the Americas. Then late 18th / turn of 19th, there were independency wars and several large new countries formed of these celtic colonial possessions. Now as the three celtic states are again having only their european possessions, they have seeked strength in numbers by allying each other, as in the growing nationalism they see each other as more like brothers than french, germans or iberians. Then after 1836 they either grow stronger on their own or one of the three gains a leading position and unites the rest under his banner as a Celtic Federation.

2) Union of Kalmar has gained Norway from weakening Scotland and has proclaimed itself as Scandinavia, uniting swedes, norwegians and danes under common banner. But their lands are sparsely populated and they have lost their colonial possessions to freedom movements as well.

3) Granada is still a large empire stretching from northern Iberia to deep into West Africa and into North Africa up to Tunisia or Tripolitania. All is not well in their empire however, as the ideas of nationalism are flooding into the empire and various minorities like iberian christian groups, berber groups and west african tribes are now calling for recognition of their own cultural identity.

4) Kaliphate has incorporated Egypt, Mid-East, Arabian Peninsula and eastern Persia, but as more and more power goes into the hands of religious leaders, the new ideas of industrialization, democracy and capitalism are making little headway into this bulwark of traditionalism.

5) Byzantium faced a revolution and turned into a democracy. While turks and bulgars are accepted as equals of greeks, the position of the republic is a difficult one between Kaliphate and Hungary, which don't agree that democracy is a good thing.

6) Hungary has adopted a reactionary stance with the lead of it's powerful monarchy among the turmoils of new age. Will the autocratic monarchy be able to answer the demands of industrialization? And while various slavic and german minorities are still quiet, the smell of unrest is in the air.

7) Central Europe has several medicorde powers that could lead their people into glory. Burgundy, Savoy, Genoa, Sicily, Tuscany, Bavaria, Cologne and North German Federation (ex-Hansa) could all rise to into great power, but may also remain forgotten. Most of them have small colonial possessions too.

Other smaller ideas:
- Ukraine has gone into Siberia
- Teutonic Order has been secularized into Courland, Baltic Union or something.

There should be some RotW majors too. India? Japan? Something in China? American new countries would have potential to majority, but they would be still growing mights, like USA in 1836, though smaller.

 

[tombom]

Vicky aberration would be great. It would be one of very few AH scenarios for it.

On 1), losing your entire colonial empire seems a bit harsh. You could have it that one of the nations has kept their colonies brutally under control while the others became independent but is facing increasing pressure and could collapse if it doesn't give in.

I don't really have any ideas now, but I'll be sure to think of some and come back.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Well, not entire colonial empire, but most of it. Kind of like how Spain lost most of it's colonial empire.

 

[unmerged(26697)]

An interesting idea for Byzantium might be to have it in a beginning stages of the civil war at the beginning of the scenario. There might be a monarchist faction, holding parts of Anatolia, and a revolutionary/republican faction, holding Constantinople, Thrace, and most of mainland Greece. In effect, it would be somewhat similar to USA/CSA situation in 1861 scenario.

The monarchist faction could be weaker, but might be allied with the Kaliphate and/or Hungary, whereas the republican faction is in stronger position, but surrounded by enemies. In case of republican victory, they would have the option to turn into Greece in exchange for some sort of technological booster(s), but at the cost of having to release a satellite nation in Anatolia, comprised of both Greeks and Turks, effectively losing that territory. Also, few economic bonuses could be applied in select provinces, at the cost of worsening relations and possibility of war declaration from the neighbors.

In case of the monarchist victory, the relations with the neighbors would go up, and under a certain set of conditions (the monarchists control Constantinople, plus few other key provinces), an option should be presented to turn into Constitutional Monarchy, which might require a release of satellite nation in Bulgaria or Eastern Anatolia (Armenia?), and which should present a choice to the republicans to end the war (which means their reincorporation into Byzantium, and should be AI-only choice), or to continue fighting. Should the option be declined, the revolt risk should be substantially increased.

That might be at least an idea worth considering.

I think having Aberration as a base is good so that there is no need to reinvent the wheel.

Some ideas:

1) Brittany, Scotland and Eire all had colonial empires, mostly in the Americas. Then late 18th / turn of 19th, there were independency wars and several large new countries formed of these celtic colonial possessions. Now as the three celtic states are again having only their european possessions, they have seeked strength in numbers by allying each other, as in the growing nationalism they see each other as more like brothers than french, germans or iberians. Then after 1836 they either grow stronger on their own or one of the three gains a leading position and unites the rest under his banner as a Celtic Federation.

2) Union of Kalmar has gained Norway from weakening Scotland and has proclaimed itself as Scandinavia, uniting swedes, norwegians and danes under common banner. But their lands are sparsely populated and they have lost their colonial possessions to freedom movements as well.

3) Granada is still a large empire stretching from northern Iberia to deep into West Africa and into North Africa up to Tunisia or Tripolitania. All is not well in their empire however, as the ideas of nationalism are flooding into the empire and various minorities like iberian christian groups, berber groups and west african tribes are now calling for recognition of their own cultural identity.

4) Kaliphate has incorporated Egypt, Mid-East, Arabian Peninsula and eastern Persia, but as more and more power goes into the hands of religious leaders, the new ideas of industrialization, democracy and capitalism are making little headway into this bulwark of traditionalism.

5) Byzantium faced a revolution and turned into a democracy. While turks and bulgars are accepted as equals of greeks, the position of the republic is a difficult one between Kaliphate and Hungary, which don't agree that democracy is a good thing.

6) Hungary has adopted a reactionary stance with the lead of it's powerful monarchy among the turmoils of new age. Will the autocratic monarchy be able to answer the demands of industrialization? And while various slavic and german minorities are still quiet, the smell of unrest is in the air.

7) Central Europe has several medicorde powers that could lead their people into glory. Burgundy, Savoy, Genoa, Sicily, Tuscany, Bavaria, Cologne and North German Federation (ex-Hansa) could all rise to into great power, but may also remain forgotten. Most of them have small colonial possessions too.

Other smaller ideas:
- Ukraine has gone into Siberia
- Teutonic Order has been secularized into Courland, Baltic Union or something.

There should be some RotW majors too. India? Japan? Something in China? American new countries would have potential to majority, but they would be still growing mights, like USA in 1836, though smaller.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Nice idea, but Byzantium has events for Revolution and all that in 18th century of Aberration already, with possible Civil Wars and all that.

 

[unmerged(26697)]

I was just thinking that the BYZ might be the most likely place to have a divided nation type of situation, where one of the sides is not very likely to win (although not impossible), and the other one has potential to turn into a major power. Another type of scenario is having Byzantium as a republic (Roman Republic, or the Greek Republic), with a smaller state still ruled by the descendants of the last Byzantine dynasty - think Trebizond, who still claimed the Byzantine mantle, even if they lacked the power to physically claim it. Such a post-Byzantine state might be the result of civil wars, being essentially a rebel province or two, that due to Byzantium's internal problems was not reincorporated back into the country.

It is just that with Victoria's engine, a civil war of the kind could possibly present a more interesting gaming experience, especially if industrialization is a major factor. I guess I am also thinking surviving Byzantium being much more akin to Imperial Russia of the XIXth century than to XIXth century France - a civil war option between the remnants of the monarchy and the republicans could allow it either path of development.

Then again, these are just some of the arguments for this kind of setup - there are probably just as many arguments against it. Either way, if Vicky Aberration turns out to be anything like EUII Aberration, it is bound to be a great gaming experience.

Nice idea, but Byzantium has events for Revolution and all that in 18th century of Aberration already, with possible Civil Wars and all that.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Still, Byzantium is one of the rare places in EU2 Aberration with Revolution events that can lead to republic, so having an established democracy there is one of the rare places to have it.

 

[borg1980]

So, this will be thread for planning Vicky Aberration, based on Aberration scenario and having one potential result of what happened.

Great news .

It's currently in "planning setup" phase, ideas are welcome, but I'll be project leader and compiler for this, so I'll reserve veto right.

OK. But... remember that I starded agitation for Aberration for Vicky in
Victoria forum .

3) Granada is still a large empire stretching from northern Iberia to deep into West Africa and into North Africa up to Tunisia or Tripolitania. All is not well in their empire however, as the ideas of nationalism are flooding into the empire and various minorities like iberian christian groups, berber groups and west african tribes are now calling for recognition of their own cultural identity.

OK. Granada is still powerfull empire, but we can do it more interesting -
for example we can leave independent Leon and one satelite of Granada
(Asturia for example).

4) Kaliphate has incorporated Egypt, Mid-East, Arabian Peninsula and eastern Persia, but as more and more power goes into the hands of religious leaders, the new ideas of industrialization, democracy and capitalism are making little headway into this bulwark of traditionalism.

Kaliphate can be stronger but for example Egypt can be satellite instead of incorporation.

- Ukraine has gone into Siberia.

Please don't do it. We can make this region much more interesting like it is
in Aberration in EU2 (Poland, Ukraine, Smolensk etc.)

-Teutonic Order has been secularized into Courland, Baltic Union or something.

Baltic Union sound nice - this country can be later divided on Lithuania,
Latvia etc.

American new countries would have potential to majority, but they would be still growing mights, like USA in 1836, though smaller.

Yes. Decisively smaller. All should be balanced.

 

[unmerged(31994)]

khaliphate should have egypt, but the country overall weaker, and if you name it "khaliphet" I will hate you all name it "Caliphate" or "Abbasid Caliphate" and Im being serious, khaliphate is WRONG.

word from your friendly neighbour.

 

[Fintilgin]

I think it would be fun if say, the Aztecs managed to survive and start the game as a semi-large but uncivilized country with a chance to get some Meji-style events in the late 19th century to help them become civilized. (If they don't get picked off or satilited.)

There should be some event chains to aim at least one or two of the majors towards becoming Communist in the late game. A secularized and Communist Granada might be amusing.

One of the French minors getting a strong Napoleon style leader and creating a French nationalist state ala vanilla Vicky Germany would be fun.

I personally would like to not see any overwhelming Brittish-style super powers though. Have everyone on a MUCH more even begining footing. More fun and unpredictable that way.

 

[borg1980]

khaliphate should have egypt, but the country overall weaker, and if you name it "khaliphet" I will hate you all name it "Caliphate" or "Abbasid Caliphate" and Im being serious, khaliphate is WRONG.

word from your friendly neighbour.

Upss... Excuse me! I was in a hurry. 'Kaliphate' is a english-polish mix.
We say in polish 'Kalifat'.
I agree with You (act of regret ) - You can have Egypt, but the country should be overall weaker (as I said before - 'All should be balanced').

 

[unmerged(21937)]

No superpowers. While some may be bigger than others, they will face other drawbacks to pull them closer to same line. Everybody won't be equal, but majors will on much more balanced footing than in Vicky GC.

I think communism should be possible for everyone, but nobody should be determistically kicked to communism.

There will be possiblity to create nation states of Germany, France and Italy by any minor in the area. Those of who will have best chances to that are listed in that Central Europe part. Desirable situation is having all three created most of the time, but it should not be the same one creating it always. Kind of like vanilla Vicky Italy.

American indians were squashed, except perhaps for a plains-indian confederacy in mid east. Aztecs are just too rich and weak to survive the technologically overwhelming europeans.

Caliphate will have Egypt, to not have too many countries. And it can be called Caliphate.

I think no minors in Iberia right away, but several possible revolters and events for that purpose to make Granada's life painful. Granada can choose to make them satellites or have nasty revolts.

Who else would be going into Siberia? Ideas are welcome, but Ukraine is the default Siberian colonizer in EU2 Aberration and in most cases others shouldn't have too big shot at that direction. Except Golden Horde, but if Golden Horde exists, then Ukraine is puny.

Would Baltic Union divide up in a way similiar to Central American States in vanilla Vicky?

Not completely balanced in Americas, but having North America with more like the situation in South America. Several countries of varying sizes instead of two or three huge countries.

 

[Incompetent]

What about Asian powers? If we're trying to deviate from real life, we could have China disintegrating completely and getting split into colonial holdings on the coast and squabbling kingdoms in the interior (from which a player can pursue a rather difficult path to Chinese resurrection a la Mughalistan in vanilla); Japan remaining weak and eventually falling under Korean dominance; and an emergent Great Power in India - a Hindu Dravidian power would be a nice reversal of history.

Also, whatever people think about colonies, it just isn't Vicky without at least some of the Great Powers having or acquiring large wrong-culture overseas empires, acting as both a great resource and a great burden. As a counterbalance a country starting with a large empire could have relatively few people at home (eg Ireland) and suffer acutely from imperial overstretch in a way that the UK doesn't in Vanilla.

 

[borg1980]

No superpowers. While some may be bigger than others, they will face other drawbacks to pull them closer to same line. Everybody won't be equal, but majors will on much more balanced footing than in Vicky GC.

I agree.

There will be possiblity to create nation states of Germany, France and Italy by any minor in the area. Those of who will have best chances to that are listed in that Central Europe part. Desirable situation is having all three created most of the time, but it should not be the same one creating it always. Kind of like vanilla Vicky Italy.

Nice idea.

American indians were squashed, except perhaps for a plains-indian confederacy in mid east. Aztecs are just too rich and weak to survive the technologically overwhelming europeans.

I agree with Aztecs. But we can give a small chance for Iroqouis - they was
quite smart .

I think no minors in Iberia right away, but several possible revolters and events for that purpose to make Granada's life painful. Granada can choose to make them satellites or have nasty revolts.

I disagree. We can give Granada more power in north africa but one ore two
minors in Iberia (satellites or independent) will make things more interesting.

Who else would be going into Siberia? Ideas are welcome, but Ukraine is the default Siberian colonizer in EU2 Aberration and in most cases others shouldn't have too big shot at that direction. Except Golden Horde, but if Golden Horde exists, then Ukraine is puny.

Why puny? We are writing a history . For example Golden Horde can
be divided in 2-3 countries who will fight on domination in this region.
Ukraine can be a bit stronger than in 'EU2 Aberration' and ukrainian rulers
can make preparations for going on east. We should think about balance
all the time.

Not completely balanced in Americas, but having North America with more like the situation in South America. Several countries of varying sizes instead of two or three huge countries.

I agree.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Asia should have at least one or two majors. I would just like to make it a major that can be formed in EU2 Aberration's RotW Expansion. Unified India would hit the spot in that call. Maybe some other too, but as RotW Expansion is not that well underway yet, it's hard to say which.

Iroquis are too close to the coast in my opinion to survive. The plains indians (Sioux and tribes living in that direction) are mostly Terra Incognita in EU2 and those areas that would be visible are among the most difficult to colonize in EU2. So that area is most logical one for putting an indian confederacy in. Other would be deepest amazon, but I think the plains indians would be more likely to make up a confederacy than amazon indians.

I don't think that minors in Iberia would make things particulary more interesting, as they would be practically unplayable anyway. Can you give reasoning how would minors there make game more interesting?

Regarding Ukraine, Golden Horde and Siberia, this scenario is based on EU2 Aberration and Golden Horde vs Ukraine battle should have been concluded there already as the greatness of one depends on the destruction of the other, it's designed so. And leaving whole Siberia empty would be quite silly too as it's always colonized in EU2 and it was historically too. Siberia could have other countries in it than just Ukraine of course, but that would most likely mean some Asian major in the east.

Regarding colonial empires, they key word is "acquiring". Africa will be mostly uncolonized and I think that there will be some uncivs around too. Australia could also be mostly uncolonized, if Asia has fewer uncivs. No country will have huge colonial empire at start though, like UK has in vanilla.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

A tag list here:
IRE = Eire
SCO = Scotland
BRE = Brittany
GRE = Greece (democracy Byzantium)
SPA = Granada
HUN = Hungary
SCA = Scandinavia (UoK)
RUT = Ruthenia
TUR = Caliphate
LOM = Genoa
SIC = Sicily
TUS = Tuscany
BAY = Bavaria
SAR = Savoy
LUX = Burgundy
COB = Cologne
NGF = North German Federation (ex-Hansa)
FIN = Finland
DZG = Baltic Union / Courland (ex-Teutonic Order)

I'll be doing an european border setup with these tags now. Except screenies later today.

 

[borg1980]

Iroquis are too close to the coast in my opinion to survive. The plains indians (Sioux and tribes living in that direction) are mostly Terra Incognita in EU2 and those areas that would be visible are among the most difficult to colonize in EU2. So that area is most logical one for putting an indian confederacy in. Other would be deepest amazon, but I think the plains indians would be more likely to make up a confederacy than amazon indians.

Maybe You have right. I'm just thinkig how to make it more interesting
and balanced. In my opinion Iroquis was the smartest Indian tribe.

I don't think that minors in Iberia would make things particulary more interesting, as they would be practically unplayable anyway. Can you give reasoning how would minors there make game more interesting?

It can be very interesting - even more than playing Wallachia in oryginal GC.
Country can have territories of Leon and Asturia. At the start it can be allied
with strong european country. It can have better technology than Granada
and wait until some unrest in Granada + eventually try to colonize .

Regarding Ukraine, Golden Horde and Siberia, this scenario is based on EU2 Aberration and Golden Horde vs Ukraine battle should have been concluded there already as the greatness of one depends on the destruction of the other, it's designed so. And leaving whole Siberia empty would be quite silly too as it's always colonized in EU2 and it was historically too. Siberia could have other countries in it than just Ukraine of course, but that would most likely mean some Asian major in the east.

We can solve it in more flexible way. Ukraine can conquer Donetsk, Crimea,
and Caffa - it's needed for a trade. Than Ukrainians rulers can concentrate
on internal things. Golden Horde can prevent self-destruction - it can survive
after strong reforms - eventually divided in 2 pieces. Siberia... we can put
there power - for example Mongolian.

Regarding colonial empires, they key word is "acquiring". Africa will be mostly uncolonized and I think that there will be some uncivs around too. Australia could also be mostly uncolonized, if Asia has fewer uncivs. No country will have huge colonial empire at start though, like UK has in vanilla.

Nice concept.