Midgardmetal said:
I agree. We can put there 2 satellites - Tver (under Finland) and Smolensk
(under Ukraine). We can also put 2 satellites between Hungary and Byzantium
(Serbia, Bulgaria, Wallachia, Moldavia, or Bosnia).
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I agree. We can put there 2 satellites - Tver (under Finland) and Smolensk
(under Ukraine). We can also put 2 satellites between Hungary and Byzantium
(Serbia, Bulgaria, Wallachia, Moldavia, or Bosnia).
Byakhiam said:Nice suggestions for names, Calipah. Could you make up something that would not have any form of goverment in it's name? As it would be funny to have "Kingdom of Cordoba" that is a democracy. Granada will be on average level of industrialization to make sure it's not überpower like UK is vanilla. Überpowers are just the thing to avoid in Vicky Aberration. Regarding nationalism, it won't be confined to northern iberia. That would be too easy..
Ive been looking through the history of Al-Andalus.Perhaps the name "Empire of Al-Andalus" or "Al-Andalus El-Odhma" meaning Greater Al-Andalus or "Dawlat El-Andalus".As for democracy, I have my doubts Byakhiam.The people of Al-Andalus, although were pretty hedonistic, they still clinged to the faith strongly.Democracy would be too radical in the Kingdom, and I go against it considering the Islamic physic.Perhaps it should be propelled by the christians in the north, in a series of events, and overthrow the prominent islamic power and force the muslims under their heel.But overall, I highly advise against it, because its not in the nature of muslim countries.
The capital should be in Cordoba, Not Grenada.And in the map, I think Al-Andalus should have more lands in southern Gaul, they did fight wars there in Aberation.Perhaps it could trigger a war between the powers of Burgundy, Savoy and Brittany against the Caliphate in one push.Or the survivng reformed vassal state of Cordoba.Nationalism , I highly doubt.Perhaps as I said a "Christian secular revolution in the North" and perhaps a "Pan Islamic" Revolution in the south against the "hedoism of the Empire".I have several ideas for that, it would be in the lines of nationalism but different.
In the Caliphate, let us not make the same mistake of Aberation.Give her the rights of becoming a playable nation in terms of events.If you want, I would gladely reside over Caliphate and Al-Andalus events.Oh yeah and rename it to "Abbasid Caliphate" its far more secure and in lines of the "feel" of the game.
My idea for the Caliphate is like this : a decadent Royal Family, lazy society" I dont know what term to use in english" and a corrupt military, like OE, however with a different touch.The Islamic shieks and clerics demand reform, supported by the merchantile class.They demand a return to islamic roots and reforming the military.Perhaps several events for a technological exchange between the Caliphate and Al-Andalus.The Caliph would have the choice of Industrializing the appointing a council, as a capitulation to the Ulama, or just force them down to decay.
Perhaps after some development and success, we can have a "Byzantion bickens" event, were Hungary and the Caliphate try to capture lands from the Byzantines when they are under revolution.
About the map for the Caliphate, let her encompass all of present day Iran, thats my opinion anyway, and up to the Capsian sea and a tad bit more of southern Turkey.
Cultures change, make sure of that.We wont have a Spanish culture, but most likely an andalusian one.We wont have Arabs, but specific arabs, for Persia, for Egypt and turkey, all part of the Greater Caliphate.We wont have Persians though.Shiites should almost be extinct.
Oh about ukraine, I sometimes noticed that the Golden Horde is considerably powerful in my game, perhaps an Islamic mongol state in inner Russia fighting off Ukraine?
A mongol Golden Horde doesn't make much sense in the 19th century. And I think it is only the country determinded for a hard life in Aberration and bound for destruction..
I'm not too enthustiastic about throwing in minors too much, as they would just serve a kind of pathetic existance as puppets of larger powers to be crushed in their struggles. Of course a player could take such into greatness resorting to various exploits and patience, but for the game itself I don't think they add much, if at all. I'm thinking about merging those two german minors into Cologne. I'd like some good reasons on why all these minors suggested are so needed.
Also, I think that dividing up similiar people speaking same (or very similiar) language into different cultures is kind of odd. So most likely there will be just one arab culture, representing the majority of Caliphate's citizens.
All countries can be made democracies via game engine, so even if alternate history sultans in Al-Andalus would have never given peasants voting rights, players may still do so and therefore Al-Andalus may become a democracy.
Pyrenees are rather logical border, as mountains are rather significant obstacle to armies.
Caliphate will be playable country, like it is in Aberration. It just will face tough decisions and if it doesn't reform or otherwise improve it's situation, getting abused by foreign imperialism is possible result.
Doesn't "Abbasid" refer to a specific dynasty of caliphs?
I'm rather content of Caliphate's borders as it's very large already. Perhaps further into east along persian coast, if there ain't any other plans for that area. Depends on how Asia will turn up.
No Golden Horde. The things discussed considering Ukraine earlier are still valid.
Also, I think that dividing up similiar people speaking same (or very similiar) language into different cultures is kind of odd. So most likely there will be just one arab culture, representing the majority of Caliphate's citizens.
All countries can be made democracies via game engine, so even if alternate history sultans in Al-Andalus would have never given peasants voting rights, players may still do so and therefore Al-Andalus may become a democracy.
Pyrenees are rather logical border, as mountains are rather significant obstacle to armies.
Caliphate will be playable country, like it is in Aberration. It just will face tough decisions and if it doesn't reform or otherwise improve it's situation, getting abused by foreign imperialism is possible result.
Doesn't "Abbasid" refer to a specific dynasty of caliphs?
I'm rather content of Caliphate's borders as it's very large already. Perhaps further into east along persian coast, if there ain't any other plans for that area. Depends on how Asia will turn up.
No Golden Horde. The things discussed considering Ukraine earlier are still valid.
I like this idea a lot!!
But shouldn't Bavaria own the Netherlands? Since I haven't played a whole EU2 Aberration game yet, I may be wrong but that's how it looks like at the scenario start at least.
Also, I think you should change the country colours. Al-Andalus should be OE green, the Caliphate should be something orange like and Savoy should be grey. That's the colours they have in EU2, at least.
But shouldn't Bavaria own the Netherlands? Since I haven't played a whole EU2 Aberration game yet, I may be wrong but that's how it looks like at the scenario start at least.
Also, I think you should change the country colours. Al-Andalus should be OE green, the Caliphate should be something orange like and Savoy should be grey. That's the colours they have in EU2, at least.
Yeah, colors will change, like many other details. Currently Al-Andalus is called "Spain" and Brittany "Bremen"
While Bavaria owns parts of Netherlands in Aberration at 1419, it's not very far fetched for them lose them. Hansa can get dutch culture if it goes reformed, so it's kind of logical to let Hansa have it.
While Bavaria owns parts of Netherlands in Aberration at 1419, it's not very far fetched for them lose them. Hansa can get dutch culture if it goes reformed, so it's kind of logical to let Hansa have it.
Byakhiam said:
I think minors quite needful - it's very interesting to make strong country
from a nation with 6-7 provinces. We have also 'independence guarantees' -
this option is designed for minors and I like to use it. We can also have
nice events from minors - for example First World War started with Austro-
Serbian conflict.
Merging two minors in Germany is not a bad idea (more balance there), but
in Russia and Balkans we need IMO some minors.
Well, the main cause I would think adding minors is good would be to provoke fighting over them between the majors and weakening powerful countries by having some of their territory as satellites.
But I have not played Vicky enough to be certain that minors provoke fighting there and I have not played Vicky MP at all. So someone with experience on MP could answer whether or not players fight over minors. Or do they rather jump on each other? In SP minors tend to just hang around until they get annexed by bigger powers, like Balkan minors often get squashed by Russia in Crimean War and Italian minors get annexed by Sardinia-Piemonte on it's way to becoming Italy.
If it seems some countries are too strong, one option to weaken them is to give them border satellites, but at this point it seems quite odd to say some country is too powerful.
But I have not played Vicky enough to be certain that minors provoke fighting there and I have not played Vicky MP at all. So someone with experience on MP could answer whether or not players fight over minors. Or do they rather jump on each other? In SP minors tend to just hang around until they get annexed by bigger powers, like Balkan minors often get squashed by Russia in Crimean War and Italian minors get annexed by Sardinia-Piemonte on it's way to becoming Italy.
If it seems some countries are too strong, one option to weaken them is to give them border satellites, but at this point it seems quite odd to say some country is too powerful.
Byakhiam said:
I think we should ask in 'Victoria - Scenarios and modifications' forum -
maybe there we will find some people interested in Vicky Aberration.
I'm not entirely sure Byzantium would ever, even as a republic, change their name to Greece. The Byzantines view Greeks are the old Pagan Greeks. They were Romans, so as a Democracy, they'd probably either go by the Republic of Rome or Romania. Romania because that was the term used for the Empire in the Middle Ages, because the "greeks" would see themselves as Romans. They only called their modern state Greece or Hellas for political considerations that they wouldn't need in this time line. Perhaps renaming the Greek culture would be in order?
And I was actually thinking about this early, there is an EU2->Vicky save game converter, so perhaps we could look at using that as well? I've played around with it some for my Vicky games already, and there are some issues with it, mainly some EU2 provinces convert in strange ways and don't cover the same areas.
There are, however, several "spare" cultures in Vicky that are unused, so they could be used for Syrian/Levantine culture, if you leave that in some of the old KoJ areas, or perhaps have it in some of the Byzantine areas? I'd also added a "Teutonic" culture, to represent a German/Baltic mix type deal in the Teutonic Order territories and changed Swiss to Swabian to represent the difference in the Swiss and Alsatian German cultures that would probably be more pronounced in Swabia.
And for the record, I prefer Courland/Kurland to "Batlic Union." The Teutonic Order might secularize, but Baltic Union implies a kind of Democracy, while I'd see a Secularized TO as more like a more northern Prussia, ruled by it's German minority, but with the possiblity of further reforms to grant citizenship to the Baltic peoples? Also, how would Poland become free? In ever Abe game I've ever played, Poland it almost always crushed. Perhaps have claims on Poland, or parts of it, by Corland/Baltic Union and Hungary?
Also a thought, Modern Romanians aren't Slavs, and as Romanized Dacians, they should either desire to form their own country or perhaps seek to be reunited with the Byzantines? I've seen research suggesting that Justinian I came from the same people, the Vlachs, and there would obviously be tension between Byzantium and Hungary, and Romanians could be a good sticking point for that. Especially if Byzantium is a Liberal republic, the Romanians might think they have a better chance at freedom with Byzantium. Same with the Armenians in the Caucauses. I know EUII Abe has the Romanian provinces as "Slavonic" but as the Romanians are not Slavs, that's incorrect.
And I was actually thinking about this early, there is an EU2->Vicky save game converter, so perhaps we could look at using that as well? I've played around with it some for my Vicky games already, and there are some issues with it, mainly some EU2 provinces convert in strange ways and don't cover the same areas.
There are, however, several "spare" cultures in Vicky that are unused, so they could be used for Syrian/Levantine culture, if you leave that in some of the old KoJ areas, or perhaps have it in some of the Byzantine areas? I'd also added a "Teutonic" culture, to represent a German/Baltic mix type deal in the Teutonic Order territories and changed Swiss to Swabian to represent the difference in the Swiss and Alsatian German cultures that would probably be more pronounced in Swabia.
And for the record, I prefer Courland/Kurland to "Batlic Union." The Teutonic Order might secularize, but Baltic Union implies a kind of Democracy, while I'd see a Secularized TO as more like a more northern Prussia, ruled by it's German minority, but with the possiblity of further reforms to grant citizenship to the Baltic peoples? Also, how would Poland become free? In ever Abe game I've ever played, Poland it almost always crushed. Perhaps have claims on Poland, or parts of it, by Corland/Baltic Union and Hungary?
Also a thought, Modern Romanians aren't Slavs, and as Romanized Dacians, they should either desire to form their own country or perhaps seek to be reunited with the Byzantines? I've seen research suggesting that Justinian I came from the same people, the Vlachs, and there would obviously be tension between Byzantium and Hungary, and Romanians could be a good sticking point for that. Especially if Byzantium is a Liberal republic, the Romanians might think they have a better chance at freedom with Byzantium. Same with the Armenians in the Caucauses. I know EUII Abe has the Romanian provinces as "Slavonic" but as the Romanians are not Slavs, that's incorrect.
Well, now as I think about it afterwards, it doesn't sound outlandish to call the republic Byzantium too. As in Vicky countries retain their name notwithstanding goverment, so while monarchist Byzantium would be called in official situations "Empire of Byzantium" or "Byzantine Empire", a republican Byzantium would be "Republic of Byzantium" or "Byzantine Republic". So instead of being "Greece", it will be "Byzantium". I have to apply this change into EU2 Aberration too though. It's also more practical to just change flag in EU2 than change tag...
Calling it Byzantium instead of Rome is a practical solution, as "Roman Empire" creates a wholly different picture than "Byzantine Empire". For the same cause Ukraine is Ukraine and not Russia.
I know about EU2->Vicky converter, but to get good enough results from that, most majors would need to be played by human player, preferably for many games from start to finish and then take the most interesting result and all kinds of trouble like that. I am fairly certain that making it by hand gives a more interesting result.
There could be some levantine minority in KoJ areas, but assuming Caliphate has been ruling those people for couple centuries already, most of them should have been assimilated into the arab majority.
I like the idea about "teutonic" culture.
I think that in Aberration swiss would hardly be any different from south germans, french or north italians, as the I feel that the important cause for swiss to be different enough to be their own culture was their very unique form of goverment that distanced them from their neighbours. And as this goverment is not in Aberration, then there is little cause for swiss culture.
I agree that Courland would be quite far fetched as a democracy. And that Baltic Union makes one think about a democracy, rather than anything else.
Practically, Poland is in existance, because otherwise those areas would need to be inconveniently distributed by various countries. For logic, Poland just was very lucky and was helped by some countries along the way. And of course neighbours will have claims on Poland. There will be lots of claims around in this scen.
Most likely all separate cultures in Vicky which are in EU2 Aberration merged into "slavonic" will have some desires towards independence. And when they do, it will likely cause all kinds of reaction events.
Merging romanian with slavonic in EU2 Aberration was done from gameplay reasons, not out of desire for historical accuracy. That is unlikely to change and if you want to try to change it, this thread is not the correct place for it.
Calling it Byzantium instead of Rome is a practical solution, as "Roman Empire" creates a wholly different picture than "Byzantine Empire". For the same cause Ukraine is Ukraine and not Russia.
I know about EU2->Vicky converter, but to get good enough results from that, most majors would need to be played by human player, preferably for many games from start to finish and then take the most interesting result and all kinds of trouble like that. I am fairly certain that making it by hand gives a more interesting result.
There could be some levantine minority in KoJ areas, but assuming Caliphate has been ruling those people for couple centuries already, most of them should have been assimilated into the arab majority.
I like the idea about "teutonic" culture.
I think that in Aberration swiss would hardly be any different from south germans, french or north italians, as the I feel that the important cause for swiss to be different enough to be their own culture was their very unique form of goverment that distanced them from their neighbours. And as this goverment is not in Aberration, then there is little cause for swiss culture.
I agree that Courland would be quite far fetched as a democracy. And that Baltic Union makes one think about a democracy, rather than anything else.
Practically, Poland is in existance, because otherwise those areas would need to be inconveniently distributed by various countries. For logic, Poland just was very lucky and was helped by some countries along the way. And of course neighbours will have claims on Poland. There will be lots of claims around in this scen.
Most likely all separate cultures in Vicky which are in EU2 Aberration merged into "slavonic" will have some desires towards independence. And when they do, it will likely cause all kinds of reaction events.
Merging romanian with slavonic in EU2 Aberration was done from gameplay reasons, not out of desire for historical accuracy. That is unlikely to change and if you want to try to change it, this thread is not the correct place for it.
Oh no, no desire to change the Slavonic culture in EUII, just trying to remind folks about the little cultures that were grouped under umbrellas.
The think with the Swiss being Swabian is that first, in Abe, there is no Switzerland, it's land being controlled as the core of Swabia, and second, that there is a linguistic difference between the German spoken by the North/South Germans and the Swiss/Alsatian Germans. Since Swabia in EUII is Switzerland and Alsace, it made some kind of sense to me that by Vicky, their language would at the very least separate them from South Germans. That and it means the Swabians wouldn't be as attracive to try and conquer, since there's no real penalty in Vicky for non-core provinces, the Cultural difference would act a bit like that. It would also work the other way too, since Swabia would have penalties in production from the North/South Germans. Germany, looking at the current map, is really split between Hansa, Bavaria, and Swabia with some minors in there, probably one minor North German, and the other South German. Swabia being a different culture should atleast discourage rapid expansion and conquest of all of South Germany. That and Swabia would probably be a Protestant state surrounded by Catholic ones. It's just an idea, but it makes sense to me.
It was also part of why I've thrown in the Teutonic culture with Courland in my converted game, it keeps them from having North German culture, which would make a conquered Northern Germany a much more useful thing. It's mainly a gameplay thing, and one could make the same arguements for France, but look at the areas covered by German controlled states. It puts them in an incredible position for expansion. And there really aren't quite as many differences in French culture as there are in the German cultures, and the cultural differences in the French states would be covered by the extra cultures they'd have, atleast for Brittany and Burgundy.
If there is a German Unification in Vicky Abe, it could potentially create a very large and very powerful state, in comparison to a unified France, Italy, or Scandinavia.
And, keeping Byzantium Byzantium would mean that a flag would be easy to find, as there's one that's a 19th century Greek flag, a white St. George's Cross on blue, with a gold double headed eagle on it. Different enough to say it's not the Empire, but similar enough not to say it's something different.
Also, Ukraine is in a fun position, since it's between Orthodox Finland and Byzantium, and I could see both powers trying to use it to help in fighting Hungary and Courland, or the other way around.
Another thing that's struck me is unification events. There's the potential German or Italian ones already, although the German one should be the hardest, there's also a possiblity of a French unification or a Celtic unification, with Brittany having a tough choice to make. There's also former colonies to think of, and perhaps, once it's settled who colonized where, perhaps initial Balkanization and potential unification? Doesn't have to be a United States of North America or South America or something like that, but perhaps Italian colonies unifying into one nation, with Gaelic ones unifying into other nations, and so on.
I was also thinking about perhaps stretching the time out some? Maybe from 1830-1930? It would stay within the same time frame, basically, but allow more time to play around with.
Just throwing out ideas as I think of them.
The think with the Swiss being Swabian is that first, in Abe, there is no Switzerland, it's land being controlled as the core of Swabia, and second, that there is a linguistic difference between the German spoken by the North/South Germans and the Swiss/Alsatian Germans. Since Swabia in EUII is Switzerland and Alsace, it made some kind of sense to me that by Vicky, their language would at the very least separate them from South Germans. That and it means the Swabians wouldn't be as attracive to try and conquer, since there's no real penalty in Vicky for non-core provinces, the Cultural difference would act a bit like that. It would also work the other way too, since Swabia would have penalties in production from the North/South Germans. Germany, looking at the current map, is really split between Hansa, Bavaria, and Swabia with some minors in there, probably one minor North German, and the other South German. Swabia being a different culture should atleast discourage rapid expansion and conquest of all of South Germany. That and Swabia would probably be a Protestant state surrounded by Catholic ones. It's just an idea, but it makes sense to me.
It was also part of why I've thrown in the Teutonic culture with Courland in my converted game, it keeps them from having North German culture, which would make a conquered Northern Germany a much more useful thing. It's mainly a gameplay thing, and one could make the same arguements for France, but look at the areas covered by German controlled states. It puts them in an incredible position for expansion. And there really aren't quite as many differences in French culture as there are in the German cultures, and the cultural differences in the French states would be covered by the extra cultures they'd have, atleast for Brittany and Burgundy.
If there is a German Unification in Vicky Abe, it could potentially create a very large and very powerful state, in comparison to a unified France, Italy, or Scandinavia.
And, keeping Byzantium Byzantium would mean that a flag would be easy to find, as there's one that's a 19th century Greek flag, a white St. George's Cross on blue, with a gold double headed eagle on it. Different enough to say it's not the Empire, but similar enough not to say it's something different.
Also, Ukraine is in a fun position, since it's between Orthodox Finland and Byzantium, and I could see both powers trying to use it to help in fighting Hungary and Courland, or the other way around.
Another thing that's struck me is unification events. There's the potential German or Italian ones already, although the German one should be the hardest, there's also a possiblity of a French unification or a Celtic unification, with Brittany having a tough choice to make. There's also former colonies to think of, and perhaps, once it's settled who colonized where, perhaps initial Balkanization and potential unification? Doesn't have to be a United States of North America or South America or something like that, but perhaps Italian colonies unifying into one nation, with Gaelic ones unifying into other nations, and so on.
I was also thinking about perhaps stretching the time out some? Maybe from 1830-1930? It would stay within the same time frame, basically, but allow more time to play around with.
Just throwing out ideas as I think of them.
Well, my idea for not having separate culture for Swabia or Switzerland area, is that it puts Swabia also in the game of trying to unify germans. The more competition there the better. I think too rapid expansion by Bavaria is better countered by having Swabia allied with Burgundy with Guarantee of Independence by Burgundy to Swabia or something like that.
Courland on the other hand should not be in competing for german unification, so having it with different culture is good.
Unified Germany could potentially be stronger than unified France or Italy, but then it just means unifying Germany will be harder than unifying France or Italy.
I think the two-headed eagle is unappropriate for republic though, it heavily associates with the Empire and that associates it with monarchy and autocracy and so on. It would be good for Byzantium if it turns back to monarchy though.
Considering how it historically went, unification among the various New World countries sounds rather unlikely. The trend seemed to be just futher fragmentation instead of any merging. Of course sharing culture means that it is beneficial to go on conquesting.
Does moving start date to 1830 require time limit patch or something? If it does and it's desirable to use it, then start date could be moved to 1820 to have it start off where EU2 ends.
And throwing ideas is good.
Courland on the other hand should not be in competing for german unification, so having it with different culture is good.
Unified Germany could potentially be stronger than unified France or Italy, but then it just means unifying Germany will be harder than unifying France or Italy.
I think the two-headed eagle is unappropriate for republic though, it heavily associates with the Empire and that associates it with monarchy and autocracy and so on. It would be good for Byzantium if it turns back to monarchy though.
Considering how it historically went, unification among the various New World countries sounds rather unlikely. The trend seemed to be just futher fragmentation instead of any merging. Of course sharing culture means that it is beneficial to go on conquesting.
Does moving start date to 1830 require time limit patch or something? If it does and it's desirable to use it, then start date could be moved to 1820 to have it start off where EU2 ends.
And throwing ideas is good.
Byakhiam said:
With all due respect I would tend to disagree, as the historical significance of the eagle dates back to the legion eagles, which in turn were created during the Republican Rome; the two heads were, if I recall correctly, originally used by Michael VIII Paleologus to signify the European and the Asian parts of his Empire. In effect, the two-headed eagle could be now symbolizing the union of the Greeko-Bulgar West, and Greeko-Turkish East. Of course, such eagle, as I would imagine, will have to bear no crowns or any symbols specific to monarchy, but it still can be used as a symbol of nation's pride in its history.
The counterpoint argument would be the, of course, the example of revolutionary societies, those being of France and Russia in real life, not using the symbolism of their predecessors - although it must be pointed out that France went back to the old symbolic only after a few years, and that modern Russia, technically a federal republic, still uses two headed eagle in its official symbolic, so the question would be how far the revolution is removed from the beginning of the game; if it is more than 20-30 years, then the negative feelings on the subject of monarchy would be very likely to have died down enough where the eagle would symbolize the enduring power of Byzantium/Romania throughout the centuries rather than the regime that has been overthrown.
Well, the thing with Burgundy and Swabia is that one tends to go Catholic, the other tends to go Protestant. Plus on the map that you've done so far, Burgundy is holding Alsace, which is a Swabian core in EUII, which would undoubtably cause friction between the two nations. Really, a Germany that's united through events could easily have Swabian culture added, as Bavaria should only have South German culture, and Hansa should only have North German culture, assuming that's Hansa that's in north Germany. One could simply have an event that after conquering a certain area, you gain that state culture. And again, there is no Switzerland nor did it ever exist, so the Swiss culture would never have formed, since the area would have remained German. Really, the North/South German break down is overly simplistic in the normal game, since all the German states would have seen themselves as different cultures. In Abe Vicky, there's fewer German States, and while I'm not suggesting they all have their own culture, a Swabian would not have seen himself as the same culture as a Bavarian. In fact, even thought they both would have spoken German, neither could have understood each other particularly well, because of the language differences. It's just a thought, and it really doesn't change much, since the North German nations shouldn't have South German culture and neither should it be the other way around. Uniting Germany this time around should be harder, because the situations that led to the unification don't exist in the Abe time line.
The Swiss culture is odd anyways, since it's made up of French, Italians, and Germans. It would be strange to have it when not having a Switzerland in which it would have formed. It's a minor thing but it makes things harder on the other German states if they go through unification through force of arms. Otherwise, Bavaria would have an unfair advantage in conquering Swabia. It just seems to me that Swabia would probably have a fierce indepedent streak, since it's a Protestant minor caught between two Catholic majors.
Anyways, I used Ruthenian for Teutonic and the Azerbaidjani one for Levantine, since they're unused, the first because there's Ukrainian culture and Azerbaidjani is wrong and Azerbaijani already exists. There's probably a few others in there, but those are the only ones that really stand out as needing to be changed at the moment.
My idea for the Levantines was that there would probably still be some in areas like Jerusalem and Antioch, and maybe a few other cities, since there is an existing native Christian population in the Holy Lands, this would just represent the minority of Christians that still remain from the Crusades, as not everyone would convert. I figured that Cyprus would be Greek and Levantine instead of Greek and Turkish, since the Turks never held it in this time line, so it's possible there's some Levantines in Byzantine held southern Anatolia as well. I suppose it depends on when the KoJ falls, but Cyprus makes sense, and Byzantium would probably be more familiar to the Levantines than the Western European nations, and it's closer. It shouldn't be a huge population, but it should be there, since they're not all going to convert. Look at the Coptic and Assyrian churches as an example of that.
With Byzantium, I think the Political parties should be named after colors, going back to the Blue/Green thing. There were six colors used in races, which means at least one party for each ideology, and there can always be the "Neo Blue" party from the greater influence from liberalism in later years. I think Byzantium should have claims all the way out the border of what would be Armenia, and if they take Armenia from the Kaliphate, then they shoudl be able to vote to incorporate the Armenians into the Republic, and maybe the same with the Romanians, and thus gain cores on those nations. Gives them something to fight with their neighbors over and both nationalities have historic ties to Byzantium, but they shouldn't be altogether happy with being part of Byzantium either, since they could be independent nations. Beyond that, Byzantium really shouldn't be able to get any more cultures or have more cores added. It should also only get the cultures and cores if they remain a democracy. The Armenians and Romanians might accept being considered equal with the Greeks, Bulgarians, and Turks, but they certainly wouldn't want to trade one dictator for another.
The Swiss culture is odd anyways, since it's made up of French, Italians, and Germans. It would be strange to have it when not having a Switzerland in which it would have formed. It's a minor thing but it makes things harder on the other German states if they go through unification through force of arms. Otherwise, Bavaria would have an unfair advantage in conquering Swabia. It just seems to me that Swabia would probably have a fierce indepedent streak, since it's a Protestant minor caught between two Catholic majors.
Anyways, I used Ruthenian for Teutonic and the Azerbaidjani one for Levantine, since they're unused, the first because there's Ukrainian culture and Azerbaidjani is wrong and Azerbaijani already exists. There's probably a few others in there, but those are the only ones that really stand out as needing to be changed at the moment.
My idea for the Levantines was that there would probably still be some in areas like Jerusalem and Antioch, and maybe a few other cities, since there is an existing native Christian population in the Holy Lands, this would just represent the minority of Christians that still remain from the Crusades, as not everyone would convert. I figured that Cyprus would be Greek and Levantine instead of Greek and Turkish, since the Turks never held it in this time line, so it's possible there's some Levantines in Byzantine held southern Anatolia as well. I suppose it depends on when the KoJ falls, but Cyprus makes sense, and Byzantium would probably be more familiar to the Levantines than the Western European nations, and it's closer. It shouldn't be a huge population, but it should be there, since they're not all going to convert. Look at the Coptic and Assyrian churches as an example of that.
With Byzantium, I think the Political parties should be named after colors, going back to the Blue/Green thing. There were six colors used in races, which means at least one party for each ideology, and there can always be the "Neo Blue" party from the greater influence from liberalism in later years. I think Byzantium should have claims all the way out the border of what would be Armenia, and if they take Armenia from the Kaliphate, then they shoudl be able to vote to incorporate the Armenians into the Republic, and maybe the same with the Romanians, and thus gain cores on those nations. Gives them something to fight with their neighbors over and both nationalities have historic ties to Byzantium, but they shouldn't be altogether happy with being part of Byzantium either, since they could be independent nations. Beyond that, Byzantium really shouldn't be able to get any more cultures or have more cores added. It should also only get the cultures and cores if they remain a democracy. The Armenians and Romanians might accept being considered equal with the Greeks, Bulgarians, and Turks, but they certainly wouldn't want to trade one dictator for another.
Though this might come in useful: http://tse.dyndns.org/~sktse/vflags/index.html
It doesn't have all the flags we might need for Vicky Abe, but we can probably make do with what they've got and they're still taking requests in the Vicky forums for making flags.
Also, changing the time would require using a No Time Limit patch, so that might hinder things a bit.
It doesn't have all the flags we might need for Vicky Abe, but we can probably make do with what they've got and they're still taking requests in the Vicky forums for making flags.
Also, changing the time would require using a No Time Limit patch, so that might hinder things a bit.
I think Irish should be renamed Celtic or Gaelic or some such. Makes things easier. Yeah, I know, random stuff, but it goes up as I think about it.
I like the idea of the Caliphate as one that was and is powerful, but resistant to modernization. Perhaps some internal troubles with the Persians, Kurds, and Azerbaijiani?
As for farther east, perhaps a unified India, as I tend to see Mughalistan forming in my EUII games, and a fractured China? Maybe some kind of unified or unifiable Turkistan in central Asia?
Perhaps Ethiopia in Africa should have some of the areas around it, like the states of Tigray and Somaliland, as part of it?
I like the idea of the Caliphate as one that was and is powerful, but resistant to modernization. Perhaps some internal troubles with the Persians, Kurds, and Azerbaijiani?
As for farther east, perhaps a unified India, as I tend to see Mughalistan forming in my EUII games, and a fractured China? Maybe some kind of unified or unifiable Turkistan in central Asia?
Perhaps Ethiopia in Africa should have some of the areas around it, like the states of Tigray and Somaliland, as part of it?
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I'd prefer leave Ethiopia fully inland to allow for more area to colonize.
Grouping all celts under one "celtic" culture while having more than north & south germans seems a bit funny, as scots, irish and bretons all have their different languages. For practical reasons using one celtic culture instead of three separate is good though. And for practical reasons I think Swabia should be south german, with some french and north italian minorities in certain areas of Schweiz. While Swabia might not necessarily like Burgundy for the reasons you mention, Swabians would still know that Burgundians are not eyeing Swabia as hungrily as Bavarians, while Burgundians would have no desire to see Bavaria consume Swabia too, so it's kind of alliance for practical reasons. Maybe just a defensive alliance though.
If India goes unified, we probably use the ideas being formed in India thread. Unified and hindu India on it's way to modernization, but lagging a bit tech-wise compared to europeans.
I have the Vicky Flag Directory bookmarked already, but thanks for the link anyway. Maybe someone else finds it handy. As Time Limit patch is such a hassle, I think that going for 1836 is best, at least initially.
Some Levantines would be appropriate for Armenia Minor area and Cyprus, yes. Also perhaps some refugees futher west too. Still most of the few levantines should be in the area of KoJ proper.
Colours sound more interesting than generic "conservative party" like names. I'm sure we'll have more than enough trouble when doing parties anyway, so suggestions on there are good. :wacko:
Grouping all celts under one "celtic" culture while having more than north & south germans seems a bit funny, as scots, irish and bretons all have their different languages. For practical reasons using one celtic culture instead of three separate is good though. And for practical reasons I think Swabia should be south german, with some french and north italian minorities in certain areas of Schweiz. While Swabia might not necessarily like Burgundy for the reasons you mention, Swabians would still know that Burgundians are not eyeing Swabia as hungrily as Bavarians, while Burgundians would have no desire to see Bavaria consume Swabia too, so it's kind of alliance for practical reasons. Maybe just a defensive alliance though.
If India goes unified, we probably use the ideas being formed in India thread. Unified and hindu India on it's way to modernization, but lagging a bit tech-wise compared to europeans.
I have the Vicky Flag Directory bookmarked already, but thanks for the link anyway. Maybe someone else finds it handy.
As Time Limit patch is such a hassle, I think that going for 1836 is best, at least initially.Some Levantines would be appropriate for Armenia Minor area and Cyprus, yes. Also perhaps some refugees futher west too. Still most of the few levantines should be in the area of KoJ proper.
Colours sound more interesting than generic "conservative party" like names. I'm sure we'll have more than enough trouble when doing parties anyway, so suggestions on there are good. :wacko: