Vinland Fantasy Scenario

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For those of you who never played the IGC for EU1, there was a fantasy option to play as Vinland in North America. Unfortunately no such option exists for EU2.

It doesn't seem like anyone will ever make one, so I decided to start. It is a perfect time to make one too, because with the imminent 1.05 patch the problem of whiteman values in the new world will be corrected, also there will be a scenario editor that will make all this easier (though I don't think it will be too hard regardless).

If the creator of Vinland for EU1 doesn't object, I would like to use the Vinland shield and graphics from that. Because I myself cannot make graphics...

Last but not least, I would like it very much if other people would help me out with this. But if no one helps I will still do it anyway, because I always liked playing Vinland and miss not being able to in EU2.

Anyone who wants to write events or make suggestions or anything, please post in this thread.

--
Links:
- The to-do list
- ID management
- The Code thread

 

[Havard]

Actually, I was thinking of doing a Vinland Scenario the other day...

I can help you. The EU1 Vinland scenario was a part of the IGC, so I guess Jeremy McGuinn made the graphics.

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by Havard
Actually, I was thinking of doing a Vinland Scenario the other day...

I can help you. The EU1 Vinland scenario was a part of the IGC, so I guess Jeremy McGuinn made the graphics.

I welcome your help.

I have created a .inc file for them using the U10 tag to get started. But it will need quite a bit of work yet, I'm not so sure about what provinces they should own and what should be known to them. I heard in 1.05 patch Norway will have knowledge of some of the areas they will be operating in. This could complicate things, because is it such a good idea that Vinland has contact with Norway?

I also wonder about what religion to give them. For now I have given them Hinduism. Hinduism is not the same as Odinism, but some of the effects are similar, such as the morale bonus. They can perhaps have a starting option of converting to Christianity or holding on to the old beliefs. I didn't want to give them paganism as a religion, because they should have an edge over the native americans.

 

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here is what I have so far (which needs more work):

# Vinland #

country = {
tag = U10
colonialattempts = 0
colonialnation = no
major = no
colonists = 0
cancelledloans = 0
extendedloans = 0
treasury = 100
inflation = 0
merchants = 0
religion = { type = catholic }
culture = { type = scandinavian }
diplomacy = {
}
knownprovinces = {
117 118 119 120 123 124 125 829 830 833 835 836 837 867 868 1370 1444 1472 1537 1538 }
ownedprovinces = {
117 118 119 120 }
controlledprovinces = {
117 118 119 120 }
nationalprovinces = {
117 118 119 120 1537 1538 }
city = { fortress = { level = 1 }
name = "Vinland"
population = 1000
location = 117
capital = yes
}
city = { fortress = { level = 1 }
population = 500
location = 117
}
city = { fortress = { level = 1 }
population = 500
location = 118
}
city = { fortress = { level = 1 }
population = 500
location = 119
}
city = { fortress = { level = 1 }
population = 500
location = 120
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 0 id = 0 }
name = "Vinland Army"
location = 117
infantry = 2000
cavalry = 500
artillery = 0
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 0 id = 0 }
name = "Vinland Fleet"
location = 117
warships = 10
galleys = 0
transports = 0
}
technology = {
stability = { level = 3 value = 0 }
infra = { level = 0 value = 50 }
trade = { level = 1 value = 50 }
land = { level = 0 value = 50 }
naval = { level = 1 value = 0 }
group = orthodox
}
}

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Captain Krunch


I welcome your help.

We'll see if I can be of any help...

I have created a .inc file for them using the U10 tag to get started. But it will need quite a bit of work yet, I'm not so sure about what provinces they should own and what should be known to them. I heard in 1.05 patch Norway will have knowledge of some of the areas they will be operating in. This could complicate things, because is it such a good idea that Vinland has contact with Norway?

Any contact with Europe might cause trouble from the start? I'd suggest we place at least one unknown province between Norway's Knowledge and Vinland. That way any early contact must come from the initiative of Vinland... In the IGC Vinland had knowledge of the eastern NA coast (incl. the Iroquis) and western Europe:

Starting position:

I'd prefer them to have less of the Nova Scotia area, and more of Newfoundland/mainland west of NF.

I also wonder about what religion to give them. For now I have given them Hinduism. Hinduism is not the same as Odinism, but some of the effects are similar, such as the morale bonus. They can perhaps have a starting option of converting to Christianity or holding on to the old beliefs. I didn't want to give them paganism as a religion, because they should have an edge over the native americans.

How about Catholicism? The chief on Greenland, Eirik the Red, converted to Christianity (according to the sagas because his Christian wife refused him sex until he converted ).

The "edge" compared to the natives should be their techgroup. I had an idea there... Let's say the Vinlanders had no contact with Europe. They would have their old world knowledge like metal etc, but would miss out on a lot of new tech improvements. But if they had continued their European contact they would have keept up much better. What do you think about placing them in the latin tech group, but with a whiteman value? Wouldn't a whiteman of e.g. 50-75 slow them down a bit, but allow horses/ships? If they maintain theis contact with Europe they will eventually reach full pace, if not they will stagnate...

 

[Havard]

I tried that country definition too... You might wanna take a closer look at the owned/controled provinces

(This way Vinland have Isle Royal and four provinces in Zimbabwe - which they dont know of)

In addition:
- Two cities in 117
- Cities in 118, 119 and 120. These are not owned

I'd suggest to put the capital in Gander (L'Anse aux Meadows) and adjust the known provinces a bit. Now you don't know the sea around Isle Royal, but you do know Lake Erie...

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by Havard
I tried that country definition too... You might wanna take a closer look at the owned/controled provinces

(This way Vinland have Isle Royal and four provinces in Zimbabwe - which they dont know of)

In addition:
- Two cities in 117
- Cities in 118, 119 and 120. These are not owned

I'd suggest to put the capital in Gander (L'Anse aux Meadows) and adjust the known provinces a bit. Now you don't know the sea around Isle Royal, but you do know Lake Erie...

This is probably because I copied the Zimbabwe .inc file and edited it and forgot about those. I thought it was to give them CBs on the greenland provinces (I must have missed it because they are both in the 1500s numbers).

As for the sea zones, that is a bit tough, because there are lots of sea zones named central atlantic and so forth, I don't know how I can tell the difference without testing every single one....

Should they also own some provinces on the mainland as they did in the IGC? I mean like nova scotia and on down. I would say probably not, because their populations in the new world wouldn't be that great. But maybe they'd have trading posts or something. Don't want to give them too much anyway, as it might interfere with colonization for other European countries like England.

I'll give them Catholic religion. There can be an event early in the game that can give them the option of turning to the old beliefs. Maybe some of the backwater provinces should be pagan as they haven't been converted yet. That's the way it was in the IGC.

I am wondering how this will affect the natives having Europeans too close. They may get whiteman values early and then end up too powerful (unless Vinland finishes them off).

I'm going to try looking more into the old Vinland IGC scenario and see if I can resurrect some old ideas.

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Captain Krunch


This is probably because I copied the Zimbabwe .inc file and edited it and forgot about those. I thought it was to give them the newfoundland provinces (I must have missed it because they are both in the 1500s numbers).

As for the sea zones, that is a bit tough, because there are lots of sea zones named central atlantic and so forth, I don't know how I can tell the difference without testing every single one....

There is this thing called a Scenario Editor...

Should they also own some provinces on the mainland as they did in the IGC? I mean like nova scotia and on down. I would say probably not, because their populations in the new world wouldn't be that great. But maybe they'd have trading posts or something. Don't want to give them too much anyway, as it might interfere with colonization for other European countries like England.

What we'd want is something hard to play as the human player, and a non-colonizing AI right?

I'll give them Catholic religion. There can be an event early in the game that can give them the option of turning to the old beliefs. Maybe some of the backwater provinces should be pagan as they haven't been converted yet. That's the way it was in the IGC.

I am wondering how this will affect the natives having Europeans too close. They may get whiteman values early and then end up too powerful (unless Vinland finishes them off).

The Vinlanders aren't Europeans

I'm going to try looking more into the old Vinland IGC scenario and see if I can resurrect some old ideas.

I've moved over the flags, shields, monarch and leader files to test a bit... We need some early monarchs btw.

How about leaders? any explorers?

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by Havard

There is this thing called a Scenario Editor...

What we'd want is something hard to play as the human player, and a non-colonizing AI right?

The Vinlanders aren't Europeans

I've moved over the flags, shields, monarch and leader files to test a bit... We need some early monarchs btw.

How about leaders? any explorers?

The scenario Editor isn't finished yet, but it will certainly help figure out those sea province ids...

I looked in the IGC files. I remember good old Snorri Eriksson.
Why not just use these leaders and just move back their start dates a bit? There are already some good colony names already finished, so those could be reused too.

It would be very easy to write an event that will allow Vinland to transform into the USA just like in the IGC. The trigger would probably be them owning certain provinces.

Most of the work on this has already been done. It's just a simple matter of adapting it to EU2. I'm a bit amazed no one has done this yet. Maybe there has been a lack of interest in it....

 

[St. Leo]

If you want a new shield, please choose the desired colourscheme:
http://www.fotw.ca/flags/fic_musi.html
http://www.fotw.ca/flags/flagmusi.html
http://www.nava.org/Publications/NAVANews/articles/raven/raven_banner.htm

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by St. Leo
If you want a new shield, please choose the desired colourscheme:
http://www.fotw.ca/flags/fic_musi.html
http://www.fotw.ca/flags/flagmusi.html
http://www.nava.org/Publications/NAVANews/articles/raven/raven_banner.htm

I would opt for the Raven one as it seems to be the most historically likely one used in Vinland. But, it would be nice if it had some color to it.

EDIT: Especially since the other two appear to be based on the cover of a music album.

 

[Mad King James]

I'm afraid that's somewhat well... wrong.
dots denote knowledge of, x's denote actual settlements

The Vikings settled in Vinland on the NORTH tip of Newfoundland and in Markland (Labrador) The straight between Newfoundland and Labrador was thought by the Vikings to be a bay, and that Newfoundland was the bottom tip of the island (Baffin Island thought to be the top tip) again the straight between Baffin Island and Labrador thought to be a bay. (They Called Baffin Island Helluland)

 

[Mad King James]

Over a few hundred years, the vikings might have explored further and found out a few more sea zones, but the settlements were much closer to Greenland and certainly NOT in Quebec or Nova Scotia.

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by Mad King James
Over a few hundred years, the vikings might have explored further and found out a few more sea zones, but the settlements were much closer to Greenland and certainly NOT in Quebec or Nova Scotia.

Thanks for the information. What source did you get this information from? I've found pictures of a viking map of Vinland but it is very inaccurate. Also, I can't zoom in to read the writings...

Indeed over 400 years they would have expanded well beyond the areas discovered in the time of Leif Eriksson. But we don't want to give them too much territory starting out, as that would make them too easy to play as. I am wondering where a potential capital of theirs would be. For now I have Isle Royale as the capital because it is a good rich secure island province.

In the 1.05 patch, Norway will have trading posts in Greenland. Should this be altered and given to Vinland instead? Vinland would be known to Norway and vice versa in the 1.05 patch if left unedited, because Norway has knowledge of these areas.

 

[Mad King James]

for it to be totally realistic, Greenland, Vinland, Iceland, and Markland should ALL belong to Norway. Also, while there is the explorative spirit, there aren't a heck of a lot of people... In game terms, Vinland never went past a level 1 colony (or maybe a tradepost) and Markland never WAS colonized, and where they did colonize, one native uprizing wiped them out. Also in the intervening centuries there wasn't the same need to expand, since the factors which forced people into ships looking for a better place to live were improving dramatically in their native Norway and Iceland.

The Vikings had no knowledge of Isle Royale though. My x's on southern Vinland and Markland were my guesses on where they would settle if they continued their settlement of NA.

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Captain Krunch

I would opt for the Raven one as it seems to be the most historically likely one used in Vinland. But, it would be nice if it had some color to it.

EDIT: Especially since the other two appear to be based on the cover of a music album.

One problem is that the Raven appears to be used ONLY by kings and powerful nobles at war. Greenland, and thus Vinland, was not settled by nobles or on under the government of the king and it was done peacefully, not by a war party... See here for some more info.

But the raven IS cool though:

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Captain Krunch


The scenario Editor isn't finished yet, but it will certainly help figure out those sea province ids...

Well... some of us have a beta I can set up a set of provinces to be known. The question is how much should they know?

I'd suggest something similar with the IGC scenario...

I looked in the IGC files. I remember good old Snorri Eriksson.
Why not just use these leaders and just move back their start dates a bit? There are already some good colony names already finished, so those could be reused too.

Or just fill in the gap with new ones?

It would be very easy to write an event that will allow Vinland to transform into the USA just like in the IGC. The trigger would probably be them owning certain provinces.

Most of the work on this has already been done. It's just a simple matter of adapting it to EU2. I'm a bit amazed no one has done this yet. Maybe there has been a lack of interest in it....

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Mad King James
for it to be totally realistic, Greenland, Vinland, Iceland, and Markland should ALL belong to Norway.

Not really. Greenland and Iceland was "annexed" by Norway in 1261/62. Before this they had some kind of independance, in the case of Iceland as a republic. The new territories were mostly settled by Norwegians and later people from Icaland and Greenland, but his was never official colonisation. In fact, Iceland was mostly settled by people fleeing from Norway

Also, while there is the explorative spirit, there aren't a heck of a lot of people... In game terms, Vinland never went past a level 1 colony (or maybe a tradepost) and Markland never WAS colonized, and where they did colonize, one native uprizing wiped them out. Also in the intervening centuries there wasn't the same need to expand, since the factors which forced people into ships looking for a better place to live were improving dramatically in their native Norway and Iceland.

The norse settlements in Greenland at the time Vinland was discovered is estimated to abt. 3000. With 400 years to grow the Vinland settlers should have at least one city (to allow building of troops/ships).

The driving force they might have had to expand is the same force that made them come to Iceland, Greenland and Vinland... Besides, with the climate cooling down it would be natural to head south to seek a better climate.

The Vikings had no knowledge of Isle Royale though. My x's on southern Vinland and Markland were my guesses on where they would settle if they continued their settlement of NA.

 

[Mad King James]

the explorations were slowing down a lot from 1200 - 1400...
I figure they would figure out that Vinland was an island, and map a bit of the coast of Markland, but the imperative just wasn't there... Though I suppose it's inevitable they would explore the Quebec coastline.

 

[unmerged(1057)]

Originally posted by Havard

Not really. Greenland and Iceland was "annexed" by Norway in 1261/62. Before this they had some kind of independance, in the case of Iceland as a republic. The new territories were mostly settled by Norwegians and later people from Icaland and Greenland, but his was never official colonisation. In fact, Iceland was mostly settled by people fleeing from Norway

The norse settlements in Greenland at the time Vinland was discovered is estimated to abt. 3000. With 400 years to grow the Vinland settlers should have at least one city (to allow building of troops/ships).

The driving force they might have had to expand is the same force that made them come to Iceland, Greenland and Vinland... Besides, with the climate cooling down it would be natural to head south to seek a better climate.

Yes, Greenland had its own bishopric

What do you mean? Greenland had 3000 inhabitants in 1000?