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Eldermann
Apr 10, 2003
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Wednesdays - TheMedIsMyBathtub

This is a new thread for people attracted to a game on a wednesday night in Australia, early morning west coast America. This is currently 21.00 AEST, (which is 11.00 GMT at the moment), as a regular Wednesday fixture. At the moment we are proposing to play fortnightly, but this is subject to discussion, as is the exact start time and finish.

We are looking at playing the AGCEEP Grand Campaign scenario, but we'll look at another variant if there is enough demand.

Looking for 6-8 definite players to start

We probably have:
mikl (Melbourne)
MattyG (Jasper)
nimrodl (Adelaide)
The Real Deal (Darwin)
Matt Hastings (Melbourne)
JCain (Melbourne)


We might have:
Casluerj
Dessert Foxx



Proposed House Rules are:

1. The game requires 4 players for a valid session to start, excepting the first session when all players are required.
2. After missing a session, the absent player made request editing of the savegame file to allow adjustment of Domestic Policy only.
3. A DoW can only be made with a CB and full Discovery of all the targets provinces, or when you are called in as an ally. For pagan nations only, players cannot call upon their allies in such wars. No DoW can be made against an AI -run Player Nation unless called in by an ally or with previous agreement of the absent player.
4. No more than two provinces can be claimed by a single player nation as part of a peace deal. Core (shield) provinces count as zero. COT and Gold provinces count double. Colonies count as 1/10th of a province equal to the colony level. If the AI offers a more generous peace, you must either reject the offer, or else have the file immediately edited back to the province limit. Full annexation of pagan nations with 100% war score is an exception to this rule. The only way you can gain more than this limit is when an AI leader of your alliance brokers a peace that is more generous than two non-shield province (or 1 CoT) limit. When settling a peace deal, a player must demand all core (shield) provinces from an ai nation before demanding any non-core provinces.
5. Players cannot refuse peace deals where the war score is at least 40 and the offer is less than half the war score.
6. If the war score is 100 percent, the player cannot refuse a peace deal, whatever its contents, excepting that rule 2 cannot be contravened.
7. You cannot cancel a vassalage resulting from a war for 20 years, unless your liege agrees to this cancellation.
8. Players cannot create vassals during war or on the obvious brink of war, unless it is agreed to by all involved in the war.
9. Players cannot Exchange Discoveries until 1650. Players can never trade maps with the AI.
10. No player is allowed to load the game as another nation, nor browse the savegame file.
11. Players must not invest more than ~50% of their income in any one technology. (Treasury and Stability are not technologies).
12. No known (or unknown) exploits are to be used, such as the pirate/single ship exploit or sacking capitals for maps.
13. After 1600, players can call for a war to be a Colonial War at the time war is declared. Land and naval combats are not allowed on the European continent, North Africa and the Middle East and its sea areas. Accidental conflicts must be retreated from by the nation who does not share the national waters, if there is one). Otherwise, either nation can retreat, or players can choose to slug it out.
 
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Okay, It looks as if we will be starting with two more players, both from Melbourne.

We will kick off on Wednesday 26th October, at 9pm Australian Eastern Standard Time (AEST), which is currently 11am GMT, 5am in Edmonton, 4am in San Franciscon, and 9am in Rio de Janiero.

Subject to player opinion and debate, we will play the latest AGCEEP, set on the Mediterranean. Each player can choose a 1-4 province state, with 1000 Ducats to spend. Every province costs 200 ducats. Every additional culture costs 200 ducats, and a CoT costs 400. If two players want the same state, then they will have to out bid each other, bidding ending at the start of play. Unused ducats will be credited to each players Treasury at the start of the second session.

I've used a limited version of this system before, in a Aberration MP game, and it worked. I'd be happy to see some debate about the game balance in AGCEEP, is anyone has concerns.

Looking forward to it!
 
OKay, just a couple of questions on rules -

1 - A DoW can only be made with a CB, it is fine for me to make a CB, claiming throne?

2 - When you say "or else have the file immediately edited back to the province limit" - we stop the game, have it edited then play on? The A"I" is sometimes very stubborn and this may happen often.

3 - How do we know what peace offers people are getting from A"I" (in repect to rule 5), how is this to be policed or is it a gentlemans agreement to honesty?

4 - I hope this doesnt happen, but if A"I" has 100% warscore on a human can the A"I" legally only take what we can, if the tables were turned? (rule 6).

5 - How is rule 11 policed, or this also a gentlemens agreement.

And some questions on sceanrio, as Ive never played AGCEEP before :) -

1 - Latest AGCEEP 1.38? No mods chucked in?

2 - "Set on the Med", means at least one province must be adjacent to the Med only?

This looks like it may be a very interesting game. I will have to play a few games of Agceep and check out the game files before I make my selection, cheers.
 
The Real Deal said:
OKay, just a couple of questions on rules -

1 - A DoW can only be made with a CB, it is fine for me to make a CB, claiming throne?.

Absolutely. The idea of a lot of these rules is to try to slow the inevitable growth of the player nations, and allow the poor feeble AI time to survive. The trick is to find a state with lots of cores at the start, or by event through the game.

The Real Deal said:
2 - When you say "or else have the file immediately edited back to the province limit" - we stop the game, have it edited then play on? The A"I" is sometimes very stubborn and this may happen often..

Usually we wait until the session is over, and edit it before the next session. Wars usually get settled just before the session ends. Wierd, but true.

The Real Deal said:
3 - How do we know what peace offers people are getting from A"I" (in repect to rule 5), how is this to be policed or is it a gentlemans agreement to honesty?.

We are all gentlemen, honest and true in our application of the rules. Mostly we play honourably in-game. Mostly.

The Real Deal said:
4 - I hope this doesnt happen, but if A"I" has 100% warscore on a human can the A"I" legally only take what we can, if the tables were turned? (rule 6)..

Since the rules intention is to protect the AI, it can keep any peace deal it can make. I suggest you avoid letting the AI get 100% :rolleyes:

The Real Deal said:
5 - How is rule 11 policed, or this also a gentlemens agreement. .

Again, gentlemens agreements.

The Real Deal said:
And some questions on sceanrio, as Ive never played AGCEEP before :)

1 - Latest AGCEEP 1.38? No mods chucked in?.

Most of us haven't played it either. We should all playtest it privately, and make some suggestions regarding the mods. I little bit of fantasy is a good thing.

The Real Deal said:
2 - "Set on the Med", means at least one province must be adjacent to the Med only?.

Preferably, and cetainly we should start with that principle as a selection criteria. I am trying to avoid someone selecting Sweden, whilst the rest of us are in the Levant. It's always more fun if we can "see" each other. I suspect we won't get an acceptable mix of nations if we strictly try to stay on the Med, and if one player was in the Black Sea, or in the balkans, it might be acceptable. The golden rule should be to get a mix where some degree of interaction and conflict is forced upon us all, evenly.

The Real Deal said:
This looks like it may be a very interesting game. I will have to play a few games of Agceep and check out the game files before I make my selection, cheers.

Looking forward to it, great to have you on board. Do you have an email address in case we need to notify for a cancellation? Mine is mikl_eu2@yahoo.com.au .
 
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nlilith said:
Like Granada?

Yeah, but Im also thinking of Tlemcen, Ghazi and some other small Turkish states. Because basically most of the best and available countries are in Italy and Im thinking it may be a little too crowded.

Also one more thing, can we have provinces edited from the original country, so we can buy more cultures? :D
 
The Real Deal said:
Yeah, but Im also thinking of Tlemcen, Ghazi and some other small Turkish states. Because basically most of the best and available countries are in Italy and Im thinking it may be a little too crowded.

Also one more thing, can we have provinces edited from the original country, so we can buy more cultures? :D

Ambitious thinking! Ummmmmaybe, maybe not. I am not keen on upsetting the existing game balance of the scenario, and the last thing we want is to spend weeks debating the historical validity of changes that 8 separate players want to make.

But hey, if you have a good idea, and it fits into the historical context of the game, and nobody minds, then go for it.

I am sticking to something off the shelf, something french maybe, something tasty, something Savoyan.... ;)
 
Hello,

IIRC, GMT was +3 compared to Rio's time, unless you are under summertime. So if you arent, the game will start here at 8am, the time that I am able to play, for 2 hours (until 10 am, when I have to go to work).

Its good to see you, PhD, here once again. :)
 
Casluerj said:
Its good to see you, PhD, here once again. :)

Hi Caslu :) , please dont be near me :D . This will be my second game when we get started. Im also playing in Friday night NA game, which is restarting scenario hopefully next week.

mikl said:
Ummmmmaybe, maybe not. I am not keen on upsetting the existing game balance of the scenario, and the last thing we want is to spend weeks debating the historical validity of changes that 8 separate players want to make.

The thing is, going by current standards (latin tech/rich provs/on med), most people are going to be stuck in Italy, with everyone fighting over the same land to expand. For picking a country, for me ideally a 2 province state is best (hopefully with a few cultures such as Savoy/Granada ;) ), that way your not too small to be annexed in one war, if things went against you and better still, you can choose three more cultures.
 
nlilith said:
Is this the correct interpretation of the rules Mikl, namely that you can add cultures to your starting country?

No, I don't think so... I have said that you can choose a country with 3 cultures, (Grenada for example) but not add cultures to an existing set-up without a) a historical context, b) endless debate, and c) paying the ducats at the beginning.

We are not tailor-making countries, but using the balance of the existing AGCEEP variant. We might do 1 or 2 minor tweaks if we all think it makes sense.
 
The Real Deal said:
Hi Caslu , please dont be near me . This will be my second game when we get started. Im also playing in Friday night NA game, which is restarting scenario hopefully next week.

Bah you are an expert player... I think I know you since 2003! You have no reasons to fear :)

Count me in, if I am right about the GMT time (-3). I'd like:

1) Genoa
2) Navarra
3) Byzantine
 
Casluerj said:
Bah you are an expert player... I think I know you since 2003! You have no reasons to fear :)

Count me in, if I am right about the GMT time (-3). I'd like:

1) Genoa
2) Navarra
3) Byzantine


I am pretty sure that the 9pm start time is 9am in Rio. I'll have to check when summer time starts.

And I am definitely right in welcoming you to the game. Genoa sure, Byzantine sure, Navarra landlocked and not asctually on the Med, so it's a backup if you don't your first choices.


At the moment I have:

Casluerj Genoa
nlilith Grenada (?)
The Real Deal
Desert Foxx not England !
MattyG
jcain
Matt Hastings
mikl

There are still some righteous countries left: Byzantium, Provence, Tuscany, Savoy, Naples, Order of St John, Milan, Candar, and Papal States. I will choose last. If two people want the same country, they will have to bid extra $$$ for it.

As a reminder:

#1 Must have province on the Med.
#2 Must be no larger than 4 Provinces.
#3 Spend $1000, $200 per province, $200 ducats for each additional culture, $400 ducats if it contains a CoT. Unused ducats credited to Treasury before start of Session 2.
 
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