Werewolf CCLXIII: Dungeons and Dragons

[Culann]

I was pretty convinced (while still doubting!) you could be a wolf. If I hadn’t misunderstood the rules, I would have been reassured about you instead.

I do find it wild/funny that bear’s analysis has me both making bold, brassy moves and quailing with fear and panic, too. I’m a novice, and unsure of all my assessments.

Not half as panicked as Bear and I about the possibility that you and Wagon would snipe one of us. So much so that we forgot to set up a backup hunt though I think the standing order would be use in that case. Not a scenario I want to ponder.

Apparently, I was hunted because I won the last two games, and I replaced the player who hunted me. Thanks for ruthlessly sacrificing your brother Wombat and securing my third straight win .

Seems so.

That's also what I meant earlier when saying that's how WW is.
As in, you can never truly be certain unless you have a scan
Which also is why analysis, theories, etc. never should be taken as statements of certainty.

And also why you need to argue a bit more like a lawyer, as you called it, as you need to cover the various possibilities, counter obvious counters, ans try and convince others.

I was boxed in from using the voting record as I couldn't present a scenario that didn't point out that Beartjah and or I were obviously wolves. As Beartjah voted Maw before Flockingbird on day 2 when two wolves became candidates leading me to believe that I wouldn't be able to convince anyone that Flockingbird would put a packmate on the board and not switch off. Nor could I reasonably make a case against Wagonlitz. I wasn't entirely sure that I could convince either Flocking or Wagon to vote Yakman who had been gunning Ike all game as the only case I could come up with was Yakman was being Yakman didn't strike me as particularly strong.

I'm not sure why Maw was sacrificed Caillean vote I believe?

Thanks for hosting @happycats517

I'm busy for the next few weeks but I can try and host a game at the end of the month beginning of next month so Happycats can play.

 

[Deleted user]

Well played bear and culann.
You truly were ruthless selling otlut Maw that way.
Why did you do it?

Also, SA villager. Honestly thought Flock just made themselves more certain wolf by claiming SA.

Not sure why the baddies got psychic or seerish, though. Seems odd.

Seerish powers was a mistype, Wombat/Culann had sorcish powers

Team Wombat thought that Caillean's vote on MAW D1 with the reasoning of not dooming her wedding meant she had scanned MAW, which led to him using his sorc scan on her and confirming she was seer which led them to think MAW was a dead man walking anyway, which he was, but only because he was scanned N1 by Caillean. Her D1 vote had nothing to do with her being seer.

Psychic was there as a failsafe so they didn't blow their sorcish powers (the only real major powers I added to them) looking for a non-existent cultist and knew to use them on looking for a seer.

 

[beartjah]

Well played bear and culann.
You truly were ruthless selling otlut Maw that way.
Why did you do it?

Also, SA villager. Honestly thought Flock just made themselves more certain wolf by claiming SA.

Not sure why the baddies got psychic or seerish, though. Seems odd.

Caillean made a day 1 vote against MAW, and something about that tripped up MAW and wombat, deciding to throw a sorc scan against her which pinged back seer.

This made us think that MAW might've been scanned.

We were right, but for entirely the wrong reasons, because someone (i think cymsdale) said that caillean first scanned cyms and then MAW, so in fact the entire reason we thought MAW was scanned was incorrect, but he was still scanned anyway.

 

[Deleted user]

I'll just post my whole set up spiel that I had typed out earlier today in anticipation of the game ending today:

Alright, let's discuss set-up. With only 18 players, this was a hard game to balance as it goes a bit beyond a light and demands a bit more powers than one, but anything too strong could easily break the game in half. This meant I started with what I know I did NOT want in the game.

The first thing I threw out was any killing powers. vH, hunter, OEO, and brutal all could quickly lead to the game falling apart if they hit the right player or were used at the right time. The second thing I threw out was curseds and apprentices. Anything that could turn a player or give them a significantly more powerful role could also easily swing the game one way or another. Once throwing these out, I thought about it and decided priests, cultists, and sorcs also needed to go. While I wanted the paranoia that they existed to be there for the village so that the seer wouldn't immediately start contacting everyone they scanned that turned up villager, I didn't want double-scanning to be a requirement for the village to clear someone either, as it would mean that the village would have to hope that both the priest and the seer would survive and in such a small game it's likely for one of them to get hunted or lynched early just through pure luck. With that done, I turned to the wolf pack.

For the pack, I wanted them to have some powers to compensate for the village powers and the additional villagers but not a ton. The psychic was given as essentially a fail safe so they used their sorc scans looking for seer candidates and not hunting a non-existant cultist. Essentially, it was a way for them to get a little bit more information and potentially gain some goodie points, but those goodie points came at the risk of someone quickly putting together that the set-up is probably similar to a lite with only four baddies and that we might have no cultists/sorcs or only one floating around, meaning that seer scans are either totally or near totally clearing. The two sorcerer scans were too essentially simulate an attached sorc who got a n1 and n2 scan off and then died, giving them a chance to find the seer if they were careful and used the scans thoughtfully. Finally, the plotter was a relatively inoffensive thing to give to the fourth wolf so that they got something but nothing that would heavily imbalance the game. Now let's look at the village.

For the village, I conceived the village existing around three power roles. These were the seer, a villager spy, and a villager alderman (whose extra vote would be especially powerful in such a small game). A blessed was added to help the village but also create fears of a cursed if it hit, as well as some minor powers in a seerish scan in case the seer died quickly, an SA to potentially force the seer into contact with a scan if they scanned them and the SA got lucky (they also added some danger to the wolf scans), and a goodie plotter to float around.

This meant that compared to a lite, the wolves had the following advantages over the village:
-Two sorcerer scans and the knowledge of what they were looking for
-The uncertainty of the set up and the potential for cultists and sorcerers slowing down JL formation
-The plotter vote, which I think is slightly more powerful in baddie's hands due to their ability to use it around parity

The villagers had the following advantages that they did not have in a lite:
-an extra villager
-a spy
-an alderman
-a blessed villager
-an extra seer scan

This might seem a bit leaning towards the villagers, but I was honestly unsure of how much the set-up uncertainty would slow the village down. If the seer was too passive to reach out to anyone thinking they needed to wait for a way to contact the priest, this significantly weakens the village compared to a lite. On the flip side if the village did make those leaps of faith, this was already going to make them quite strong. However, adding another baddie to balance this was also not preferred as it would likely swing things too far in the opposite direction. Ultimately, I decided to trust that the paranoia and threat of things being unknown would hold the village back enough that things would stay balanced even with these additions.

 

[Deleted user]

Caillean made a day 1 vote against MAW, and something about that tripped up MAW and wombat, deciding to throw a sorc scan against her which pinged back seer.

This made us think that MAW might've been scanned.

We were right, but for entirely the wrong reasons, because someone (i think cymsdale) said that caillean first scanned cyms and then MAW, so in fact the entire reason we thought MAW was scanned was incorrect, but he was still scanned anyway.

Yes, Caillean scanned Cymsdale first, then MAW, and she had you as her scan the day she died. Which meant you guys thinking MAW was dead was right, but right for the wrong reasons. If she kept following her standing order (You were third on her standing order but she did specifically want to scan you), the fourth scan would have been Wombat. While Wombat's reasoning for scanning her ended up being incorrect, it was extremely lucky that he decided to be careful about it.

 

[aedan777]

I was convinced after I was hunted that Wagon was a cultist because of his suspicious behavior all game and there being no reason to hunt me. I was pretty suspicious and there was nothing besides my word backing up my seer scan on Wagon, and people kept bringing up that it could be fake. So the wolves had nothing to gain and a lot to lose removing a possible suspect and confirming that Wagon was seer cleared. Only made sense as a way to "clear" Wagon.

 

[MAWofdoom]

The Final Day

The five adventurers gathered, finally finding the portal to return to their home, but there was one last piece of business to take care of. Those who murdered their friends had to be eliminated. Flockingbird, Yakman, and Wagonlitz threw accusations at each other, while beartjah and Culann could only sit back and smile. Eventually they decide to wade in, helping Wagonlitz down Flockingbird. Wagonlitz turned to them with hope, thinking this was soon at an end. However, this is when beartjah and Culann revealed their true colors. They had been min-maxing this whole time and hiding their true powers from the others. Beartjah, a hexblade warlock/paladin, and Culann, a warlock/sorcerer, revealed the full extend of their powers, dishing out huge amounts of damage and having near infinite spell slots respectively. Their combined power was too much for Yakman and Wagonlitz and in only a few rounds of combat they were on the ground making death saves. Culann and beartjah returned to the portal after the others were dealt with. Beartjah was the first to speak, "Once we destroy this portal we can finally forget about that pathetic other world. Unfortunately, this portal would remove all of our powers, but perhaps we can study a spell that would allow us to retain these powers when we return." Culann responded, "I have no interest in returning to that wretched place, even as a conqueror. Now, you and I need to discuss the deal, with Alan whatshisname and the blood hunter dead, the original plan to divide this world is no longer possible." Beartjah looked at his comrade in surprise. "Are you not planning to resurrect them afterwards? Was the blood hunter not your brother?" Culann says, "He was this body's brother, but I am something more now. I have no wish to split my power with those fools. I propose a simple solution. Everything encompassing the hemisphere east of this portal is mine, while everything encompassing the hemisphere west of this portal is yours." Beartjah nodded and with that they began the ritual to destroy the portal. The Forgotten Realms was unaware of the danger they were in and soon enough their respective armies swept across the nations of The Forgotten Realms. None could resist their advance and soon the world was split between two empires. Beartjah continued to work on a way to invade Earth by finding a way to stabilize the portal and allow the powers of the Forgotten Realms to travel through it. Meanwhile, Culann began to search for a path to godhood and a way of violating Mystra's laws blocking the casting of more powerful spells. He carefully studied Karsus's research and sought for a way to succeed where he failed.

Flockingbird the spiritually attuned villager was lynched

Wagonlitz the villager was overwhelmed
Yakman the villager was overwhelmed

Culann the werewolf with used sorcish powers wins
Beartjah the werewolf with used psychic powers wins

Dang, wombat/culann being ruthless both in game action and story! What a character!

Very nicely done culann and beartjah, and ike as well! That was a lit of fun to play even though I didn't get to do much except by dying, and it was even more fun to watch!

Thanks for DMing happycats! I've never gotten to play an actual dnd game, so this was really cool!

 

[Culann]

The Final Day

The five adventurers gathered, finally finding the portal to return to their home, but there was one last piece of business to take care of. Those who murdered their friends had to be eliminated. Flockingbird, Yakman, and Wagonlitz threw accusations at each other, while beartjah and Culann could only sit back and smile. Eventually they decide to wade in, helping Wagonlitz down Flockingbird. Wagonlitz turned to them with hope, thinking this was soon at an end. However, this is when beartjah and Culann revealed their true colors. They had been min-maxing this whole time and hiding their true powers from the others. Beartjah, a hexblade warlock/paladin, and Culann, a warlock/sorcerer, revealed the full extend of their powers, dishing out huge amounts of damage and having near infinite spell slots respectively. Their combined power was too much for Yakman and Wagonlitz and in only a few rounds of combat they were on the ground making death saves. Culann and beartjah returned to the portal after the others were dealt with. Beartjah was the first to speak, "Once we destroy this portal we can finally forget about that pathetic other world. Unfortunately, this portal would remove all of our powers, but perhaps we can study a spell that would allow us to retain these powers when we return." Culann responded, "I have no interest in returning to that wretched place, even as a conqueror. Now, you and I need to discuss the deal, with Alan whatshisname and the blood hunter dead, the original plan to divide this world is no longer possible." Beartjah looked at his comrade in surprise. "Are you not planning to resurrect them afterwards? Was the blood hunter not your brother?" Culann says, "He was this body's brother, but I am something more now. I have no wish to split my power with those fools. I propose a simple solution. Everything encompassing the hemisphere east of this portal is mine, while everything encompassing the hemisphere west of this portal is yours." Beartjah nodded and with that they began the ritual to destroy the portal. The Forgotten Realms was unaware of the danger they were in and soon enough their respective armies swept across the nations of The Forgotten Realms. None could resist their advance and soon the world was split between two empires. Beartjah continued to work on a way to invade Earth by finding a way to stabilize the portal and allow the powers of the Forgotten Realms to travel through it. Meanwhile, Culann began to search for a path to godhood and a way of violating Mystra's laws blocking the casting of more powerful spells. He carefully studied Karsus's research and sought for a way to succeed where he failed.

Flockingbird the spiritually attuned villager was lynched

Wagonlitz the villager was overwhelmed
Yakman the villager was overwhelmed

Culann the werewolf with used sorcish powers wins
Beartjah the werewolf with used psychic powers wins

I didn't read the flavor text. So uh, maybe Happycats should be on the team for Baldur's Gate 4.

 

[Cymsdale]

Hey look I was right about Beartjah

 

[Team Wombat]

Well played to all, especially culann and beartjah, but most of the decisions on everyones part made sense, and it was a pretty high quality game after day 1. Thank you for hosting, happycats - well GMed game. I thought the setup favored the villagers a bit, but culann and beartjah converted a tricky position nicely. Will have more to say when I get home.

 

[Yakman]

well played wolfs!

 

[Dedonus]

Disappointed in the lack of vote analysis in the final day.

The wolves hunting Aedan and Marty made it clear that there were two wolves on the Day 2 MAW voters. The vote counts clearly show that Flockingbird could not be a packmate of Ike (and clears her), which I mentioned in my last analysis post before I died, the spy report hinted at Yakman being a villager. With no one claiming to be a priest, Aedan's scan on Wagon would mark him as a villager. Which means process of elimination would have resulted in Culann and Beartjah as the last wolves.

Too bad the village killed me...

 

[marty99]

I was convinced after I was hunted that Wagon was a cultist because of his suspicious behavior all game and there being no reason to hunt me. I was pretty suspicious and there was nothing besides my word backing up my seer scan on Wagon, and people kept bringing up that it could be fake. So the wolves had nothing to gain and a lot to lose removing a possible suspect and confirming that Wagon was seer cleared. Only made sense as a way to "clear" Wagon.

Same. But Wagon ended up being quite useful to the wolves on pretty much every vote day

Disappointed in the lack of vote analysis in the final day.

The wolves hunting Aedan and Marty made it clear that there were two wolves on the Day 2 MAW voters. The vote counts clearly show that Flockingbird could not be a packmate of Ike (and clears her), which I mentioned in my last analysis post before I died, the spy report hinted at Yakman being a villager. With no one claiming to be a priest, Aedan's scan on Wagon would mark him as a villager. Which means process of elimination would have resulted in Culann and Beartjah as the last wolves.

Too bad the village killed me...

We almost managed to get Ike lynched instead of you. I think that was our last real chance to win

 

[Dedonus]

We almost managed to get Ike lynched instead of you. I think that was our last real chance to win

We had the numbers (all the wolves were on me or, in Ike's case, had to move onto me to save himself if any villagers voted me). Unfortunately, the villager committed an unforced error by believing Ike supposed "giving up" over my trait claim.

Thanks for running the game, @happycats517!

 

[Arkasas]

Ah, Werewolf, the game where the village kills villagers and the wolves kill wolves in a bid to see who can wipe themselves out the most slowly. Classic. All hail the glorious feline leader!

 

[Deleted user]

Gimme a few days and I'd be open to running a lite, so long as y'all can stomach the theme of indie folk vs country.

 

[Culann]

Same. But Wagon ended up being quite useful to the wolves on pretty much every vote day

Pretty much at least two days we thought about hunting Wagon and changed our minds.

 

[Emperor Ike]

Same. But Wagon ended up being quite useful to the wolves on pretty much every vote day


We almost managed to get Ike lynched instead of you. I think that was our last real chance to win

Almost doesn't count. Thanks to Wagon most of the time clearing me .

We had the numbers (all the wolves were on me or, in Ike's case, had to move onto me to save himself if any villagers voted me). Unfortunately, the villager committed an unforced error by believing Ike supposed "giving up" over my trait claim.

Thanks for running the game, @happycats517!

Worthy of an Oscar®

 

[beartjah]

@Flockingbird A perhaps somewhat late correction (never interrupt your enemy when they're making a mistake and all that ): you were a zealot in that previous game, not a cultist. The 'turns-into-a-wolf-if-all-wolves-are-dead' thing is the entire gimmick of that role. Since there were no zealots this game (the role wasn't part of the role/trait list) it wasn't possible for wagon to be a zealot.

I was convinced after I was hunted that Wagon was a cultist because of his suspicious behavior all game and there being no reason to hunt me. I was pretty suspicious and there was nothing besides my word backing up my seer scan on Wagon, and people kept bringing up that it could be fake. So the wolves had nothing to gain and a lot to lose removing a possible suspect and confirming that Wagon was seer cleared. Only made sense as a way to "clear" Wagon.

The hunt on you was because we thought your public-seer-scan made you near-unlynchable. And wagon was being so completely wrong about everything that we thought you were the greater threat.

Hey look I was right about Beartjah

Still puzzled what gave it away.

Disappointed in the lack of vote analysis in the final day.

The wolves hunting Aedan and Marty made it clear that there were two wolves on the Day 2 MAW voters. The vote counts clearly show that Flockingbird could not be a packmate of Ike (and clears her), which I mentioned in my last analysis post before I died, the spy report hinted at Yakman being a villager. With no one claiming to be a priest, Aedan's scan on Wagon would mark him as a villager. Which means process of elimination would have resulted in Culann and Beartjah as the last wolves.

Too bad the village killed me...

Not sure if this reasoning would've actually survived on the day: If you go into hunt-analysis you'd need to answer the question of 'why is wagon-the-obviously-cleared still alive?' You might also have some trouble arguing that flocks record against ike is more clearing that mine/culanns record against MAW, considering that ike was very obviously in trouble on day 2 (and onwards) and would've made for a much more logical alibi-packmate-dumping candidate than MAW was.

 

[Cymsdale]

Still puzzled what gave it away.

It was this:

In terms of reads from this, cymsdale feels to me like a vill trying to force activity, though this is more gut feel than anything resembling an argument.

Felt like a wolf seeing me headed to the gallows and wanting to get some cred.