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Werewolf Lite CCLI: A True History with Lycanthropes (and Apologies to Lucian)

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Capt. Kiwi said:
I'm not sure why you even felt the need to snipe, rather than just shift your vote earlier. I asked for the tie, and was voting in a way that I couldn't snipe out of it. Nautilu couldn't get out of it either. Agreeing with another villager wasn't going to make you a more likely hunt target.
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Theatricality. I hate easy games and this one was too easy. And there was no reason why it couldn't work except a dodge connection/forum lag. And even then I had a back-up plan; it just didn't materialise. But I still defeated the wolves and left the village in an indomitable position. My work was done.

Najs said:
The seer also PM'd with me day 1 or so with suspicions about assorted people. And then I was hunted.
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Correlation does not imply causation. None of the info I sent you got out to any wolves unless it came from your end.

Cliges said:
Will there be enough enthusiasm while the big game still has most of its players?

The variable set-up could be interesting.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...to-Lucian)&p=14949345&viewfull=1#post14949345

But without a seer (Fall Grün) is there really a point to having a GA? Who would really need protection? And Fall Weiß is kind of pointless, too. If the goal is to try out different types of games, there isn't really much use in having what amounts to the usual set-up as being just as likely as the other alternatives.

I'd say different set-up possibilities is fine, but I'm not sure that all of the ones the post Marty quotes are the best ones to try.
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What Cymsdale said. Preventing one villager from dying can make a significant difference. In fact, if there WAS a seer and a GA in the same game, it would unbalance it massively. One of these set-ups has both, but it also has a warlock to balance it out.

And as to your second point, my goal isn't to try out new set-ups. Certainly not for its own sake, it's called Lite for a reason. My goal is purely to break up the dominance of JL's and seer-driven games. I'm actually quite averse to tampering with the Lite formula, but these have been done before.
If Fall Weiß comes up, yes it is the same setup as usual but none of the players knows that.. The wolves thus have to balance their play according to how likely each set-up is. Even if in fact the set-up is standard, the wolves will still be on the lookout for a warlock, they'll tailor their hunts according to whom they think the GA might protect, and the seer will try to find the GA. Overall, it gives the game a bit more flavour, keeps the wolves on their toes and gives villagers something extra to think about. It also gives the GA and warlock if they're present a bit of a novelty.
 
marty99 said:
Correlation does not imply causation. None of the info I sent you got out to any wolves unless it came from your end.
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I have tendencies to get hunted as soon as the JL makes contact with me. The seer obviously counts. :p

And we've done the different setups-thing before, it's fun. Not a big deal, really.
 
And as to your second point, my goal isn't to try out new set-ups. Certainly not for its own sake, it's called Lite for a reason. My goal is purely to break up the dominance of JL's and seer-driven games. I'm actually quite averse to tampering with the Lite formula, but these have been done before.
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That's more or less what I meant; it would be hard to break that dominance without some sort of altered set-up.

I hate easy games and this one was too easy.
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I do think it would have been less easy if 2 of the 3 wolves hadn't been the main contenders for the first vote. The set-up was balanced in my view, but the village was lucky early enough that victory wasn't hard to reach.
 
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Cliges said:
That's more or less what I meant; it would be hard to break that dominance without some sort of altered set-up.
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Indeed. Although I think this game did the same. A JL was formed but it did require a lot of thought and preparation from me and the_hdk and we did have to take quite a few calculated risks. In the end only two scans were used. I do think, even though it would be nice to do my suggestion, that the one we used for this game is highly viable and that we should use it again, regardless of the outcome.

I do think it would have been less easy if 2 of the 3 wolves hadn't been the main contenders for the first vote. The set-up was balanced in my view, but the village was lucky early enough that victory wasn't hard to reach.
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Indeed, that really screwed them up. Very interesting dynamic to analyse throughout the game, really. After my day 1 analysis of THE_SPLIT hunt tamius turned out to be the most likely wolf in the game. After gigau turned out bad I gave tamius a bit more breathing space, but it became clear that the voting record was anomalous as the game went on.
Sometimes, what the wolves done in their situation would have worked out. But in a game where tamius was still a good suspect, saving him in favour of gigau was a bad move.
The better move would have been to ditch tamius.
The best move would have been to kill a third person. But Capt. Kiwi seems far too ruthless to put himself in any danger by helping to save a packmate. Ironically it was this that doomed the wolfpack in the end. Once we knew both players that got run up were wolves, he became highly suspect.

It used to be so common that wolves would always vote to save each other that a) it became easy to find them by analysis and b) those that sold out their packmates were above suspicion. But now it seems to be the other way about. Wolves are so scared of being caught protecting a packmate that they never consider the benefits of saving him. To be fair to the wolves, they didn't actively bring up either candidate IIRC. And from their perspective it was highly unfortunate that it happened (although they partially brought it upon themselves by hunting THE_SPLIT, a hunt which really annoyed me personally, it was his third hunt in 2 Lite games). But they reacted poorly to it. Setting out to save a packmate always has risks but sometimes it is the best option. What you should never do is cast a meaningless vote that neither saves nor kills your packmates. But if you go all out to save them, you usually succeed and although they may later be scanned, you have a very high chance of going through the game without ever being found out. Not to mention the fact that the less packmates you let die, the less days you have to get through to reach parity.





And yes, I do think the original set-up was balanced, and it should be used often in the future.

By the way, thanks for GM'ing Cliges. You done a great job :)
 
There was no real possibility of saving both of them. My options at the time were my packmates, marty, or a fourth candidate. You were never going to get lynched on day one, and bringing in a fourth candidate would be so out of character for me that I wouldn't get away with it. I'm one of the main backers of sticking to 2-3 targets, to prevent exactly that kind of wolf play.

I could have gone for tamius instead of gigau; but frankly the case against him was completely rubbish, even if by sheer chance it was correct. SPLIT's first reaction after the game was to ask why *I* hunted him, and I would be a far better suspect if you were to go meta. I still haven't got the foggiest notion how you would suspect tamius of it; as far as I can tell, his hunt order was just a random choice plucked out of the air. You certainly made 0 case for some sort of feud or history.

Regardless of which one was lynched, it was highly likely that the other would be scanned. With only three wolves, that's as good as game over.
 
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