- 1
- 1
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
In Italy, additionnal proposed changes as tioperete said :
- Pise replace Lucca ;
- Urbino would be created from Ancona ;
- Verona would be created from Venizia ;
- Pise replace Lucca ;
- Urbino would be created from Ancona ;
- Verona would be created from Venizia ;
Last edited:
- 1
- 1
New suggested additionnals provinces as @tioperete said :
- Swansea could be created from Cardiff ;
- York could be created from Leeds & Hull ;
- Swansea could be created from Cardiff ;
- York could be created from Leeds & Hull ;
Last edited:
- 2
Gentlemen, I agree to make these changes. I want to say that the work is being done within the framework of Nick's WW2 Multiplayer Realism Mod and nothing more. Going beyond this mod - we understand that many people have created many good modifications and the appearance of two maps may confuse them. I want to make a remark right away, I am not a map creator, not a graphic designer, not an expert, I was just interested in studying this little-studied aspect of modding. It is better to always remember that there is a wonderful balanced vanilla map in the game. Perhaps some changes will not appear. Please do not be upset. Taking on this work, I did not expect that it would cause such a response. Sorry if I did not inspire you. Any of my works with the original DH, E3 maps are the property of the community. As for the proposed changes - there are so many of them! I will create a folder and save the graphic files.
Regarding message about manual mr. @Lord Rommel - I'd be glad if someone else learned how to edit a map! I have a guide, but it is in russian and not complete enough. For example, I completely miss working in graphic editors. I use CorelPhotoPaint 22, CorelDraw 22 as support, ArcGIS 10.8.2 for make satellite view, SAS.Planet for coordinates. Windows 10 operating system. Of all the programs listed, I admit, only ArcGIS may present a problem due to its complexity.
Regarding message about manual mr. @Lord Rommel - I'd be glad if someone else learned how to edit a map! I have a guide, but it is in russian and not complete enough. For example, I completely miss working in graphic editors. I use CorelPhotoPaint 22, CorelDraw 22 as support, ArcGIS 10.8.2 for make satellite view, SAS.Planet for coordinates. Windows 10 operating system. Of all the programs listed, I admit, only ArcGIS may present a problem due to its complexity.
- 1
My notes;
U have two times Koblenz on your map now
The problem of the area between Cologne and Frankfurt is the cut of Eifel and the Sauerland area that is linked by the Westerwald forcing a gap between the two areas.
Furthermore, from a geographical point of view the towns of Essen, Koblenz (both) and Kolberg are at the wrong province now. The Trier provinze would be the real Koblenz area. Essen is way to much in the north now. So Duisburg would be the more logical Name for such a cut.
And i think such a big Dortmund Province isnt a good choice.
Your province would have most of the mountain/hill area of the Sauerland and the heavy urban dominated Dortmund-Unna-Hagen area. Because of the massive contrast and to get a "retreat area" with a different terrain type and to get the "infrastructure hole" we call "Sauerland Lücke" - "Sauerland gap" - i would recommend to add a Siegen Province between the Ruhr area, the Düsseldorf district, the Frankfurt area and the Kassel area. Till today the Sauerland is a natural gap cutting the country into west and central germany. To get from Düsseldorf to Kassel u will always travel via the Ruhr area or the Frankfurt region. Its not impossible to get to Kassel via Siegen but all motorways and the big railways lines were build around the two routes since the Kaiserreich days.
Last edited:
- 2
What for HoI Tools do u use and where do you download them?
Like I said; i would be happy to learn how to edit the map.
Last edited:
I use Jamie's MapUtility 1.2.5. this: https://drive.google.com/file/d/160JbgSodR7Gdys6KLiCgEBZ0dVg_R1pA/view?usp=sharing
- 2
Ahem, it might be selfevident for you but for everybody else... could you give a reason, an explanation WHY?
Same with your other suggestions, I think, it was the UK, Italy, France, Germany., Iran... the number is growing by the hour... quite bold to feel informed enough to make suggestions for so different countries.
As an example, look at how Nick and LordRommel not only come from those countries they suggest changes for but also how they carefully researched and explained their suggestions.
Last edited:
- 1
My notes;
U have two times Koblenz on your map now
The problem of the area between Cologne and Frankfurt is the cut of Eifel and the Sauerland area that is linked by the Westerwald forcing a gap between the two areas.
Furthermore, from a geographical point of view the towns of Essen, Koblenz (both) and Kolberg are at the wrong province now. The Trier provinze would be the real Koblenz area. Essen is way to much in the north now. So Duisburg would be the more logical Name for such a cut.
And i think such a big Dortmund Province isnt a good choice.
Your province would have most of the mountain/hill area of the Sauerland and the heavy urban dominated Dortmund-Unna-Hagen area. Because of the massive contrast and to get a "retreat area" with a different terrain type and to get the "infrastructure hole" we call "Sauerland Lücke" - "Sauerland gap" - i would recommend to add a Siegen Province between the Ruhr area, the Düsseldorf district, the Frankfurt area and the Kassel area. Till today the Sauerland is a natural gap cutting the country into west and central germany. To get from Düsseldorf to Kassel u will always travel via the Ruhr area or the Frankfurt region. Its not impossible to get to Kassel via Siegen but all motorways and the big railways lines were build around the two routes since the Kaiserreich days.
Hello Lord Rommel,
You are right about Koln, I suggest to adjust the map in this manner then :
(Former Koln becomes Bittburg, and news koln is enlarged southward).
I have consulted the german map of 1937 & 1944, plus google map in order to propose these changes. It is not perfect, it is better in my opinion.
Mr Vilochka,
First of all, I want to thank you for the excellent work that you have already done !
I made many suggestions to improved historicity and gameplay. Many cities or provinces are not well situated.
I am fully aware that you will not implement all suggestions ! Any improvement will be more then welcome and I am grateful in advance.
I'd like to add some suggestions for: Japan, Australia, and Caucasus & nortthern Russia (if Mr Nick 3210 is not doing it).
Then, when you start the work, I am ready to gives explanations for each proposed changes. In general, I have look at google map, and territorial division map of the WWII era before to proposed some changes. It is difficult however to proposed precises changes, because the map and rivers on it does'nt match always the reality.
By the way, I would like to have any change that you make for Nick 3210. He knows really well russian geaography !
An enormous thank you again,
A curious observation.
There have been many proposals to divide large provinces into small ones. And no one proposal to fix ridiculous wrong connection/disconnection.
Yes, I understand that divide large provinces into small gives the biggest Wow effect, and it is also not difficult to find large provinces on the map that are potentially suitable for dividing into smaller ones. But adding new provinces is not our current main goal, and we do it along the way when there is a compelling reasons of adding a new province.
But as I have already said, at this moment we are working primarily to fix rude and ridiculous mistakes in the connections between the provinces.
Yes, it's not as interesting to look for blunders in connections between provinces as dividing large provinces into small ones, it doesn't have such a Wow effect, but nevertheless I believe that this boring, uninteresting, routine work is nevertheless very important and should be done by someone. Since, obviously, no one else will do it, then I have to do it.
I would like to explain what typical connection errors I want to fix, there are quite a lot of them on the map:
Typical example of ridiculous wrong connection on vanilla Map:
You can see that Moscow has direct connection to Vladimir, and Nelidovo has direct connection to Solnechnogorsk.
Then let's look at real road network:
You can see:
No direct way Moskow - Vladimir, but only through Orekhovo-Zuyevo !
No direct way Solnecnogorsk(Volokolamsk) - Nelidovo, but only through Rzhev !
So we see absolytely absourd ridiculous wrong connections thet must be fixed by changing of provinces forms.
After our fixing these area got normal true connections - Vladimir no more connected with Moskow, Nelidovo not more connected with Volokolamsk.
And also vanilla Map has huge amount of lack of visual direct connection between provinces that should be connectedm so we fix these errors too:
Yes, of course, people do not know such details of geography outside their region of residence, and players do not get annoyed by incorrectly made regions outside their area of residence. But when you see ridiculous mistakes in those regions with which you are familiar, it causes bad surprise and irritation.
And also, even without knowing so deep about the geography of Europe, I nevertheless would like to play on the true correct map of Europe, where the provinces have the true connections corresponding to the actual geography.
Therefore, if you can report such ridiculous, absurd errors in connections/disconnections between provinces in Europe, please report it.
This will allow us immediately to start correcting them immediately after completing the work on correcting the map on the Soviet-German front.
I cannot promise that we will divide all large provinces into small ones that you report, I will carefully consider all proposals and justifications/reasons for such a dividing, I'll study maps of these areas, we will definitely discuss it and if there are reasonable grounds for dividing, then we will divide it.
But I can guarantee 100% that we will resolutely fix all the absurd, ridiculous mistakes in the connections/disconnections of vanilla provinces that you will report us!
There have been many proposals to divide large provinces into small ones. And no one proposal to fix ridiculous wrong connection/disconnection.
Yes, I understand that divide large provinces into small gives the biggest Wow effect, and it is also not difficult to find large provinces on the map that are potentially suitable for dividing into smaller ones. But adding new provinces is not our current main goal, and we do it along the way when there is a compelling reasons of adding a new province.
But as I have already said, at this moment we are working primarily to fix rude and ridiculous mistakes in the connections between the provinces.
Yes, it's not as interesting to look for blunders in connections between provinces as dividing large provinces into small ones, it doesn't have such a Wow effect, but nevertheless I believe that this boring, uninteresting, routine work is nevertheless very important and should be done by someone. Since, obviously, no one else will do it, then I have to do it.
I would like to explain what typical connection errors I want to fix, there are quite a lot of them on the map:
Typical example of ridiculous wrong connection on vanilla Map:
You can see that Moscow has direct connection to Vladimir, and Nelidovo has direct connection to Solnechnogorsk.
Then let's look at real road network:
You can see:
No direct way Moskow - Vladimir, but only through Orekhovo-Zuyevo !
No direct way Solnecnogorsk(Volokolamsk) - Nelidovo, but only through Rzhev !
So we see absolytely absourd ridiculous wrong connections thet must be fixed by changing of provinces forms.
After our fixing these area got normal true connections - Vladimir no more connected with Moskow, Nelidovo not more connected with Volokolamsk.
And also vanilla Map has huge amount of lack of visual direct connection between provinces that should be connectedm so we fix these errors too:
Yes, of course, people do not know such details of geography outside their region of residence, and players do not get annoyed by incorrectly made regions outside their area of residence. But when you see ridiculous mistakes in those regions with which you are familiar, it causes bad surprise and irritation.
And also, even without knowing so deep about the geography of Europe, I nevertheless would like to play on the true correct map of Europe, where the provinces have the true connections corresponding to the actual geography.
Therefore, if you can report such ridiculous, absurd errors in connections/disconnections between provinces in Europe, please report it.
This will allow us immediately to start correcting them immediately after completing the work on correcting the map on the Soviet-German front.
I cannot promise that we will divide all large provinces into small ones that you report, I will carefully consider all proposals and justifications/reasons for such a dividing, I'll study maps of these areas, we will definitely discuss it and if there are reasonable grounds for dividing, then we will divide it.
But I can guarantee 100% that we will resolutely fix all the absurd, ridiculous mistakes in the connections/disconnections of vanilla provinces that you will report us!
Last edited:
Well Mr Altruist,
My first answer is why not ! It is a game, it is not the holy Bible (without sarcasm).
Many provinces and cities are missing in important countries.
When an army invade another country, it does not invade hundred or thousand km at one time, it invades multiple territories in a progressive manner.
There is notably a lack of provinces around capitals cities. Capitals cities are surrounded by heavily populated suburbs, and it slow an invasion unless that the invaded country abandonned his capital (like France in 1940).
When there is an aerial bombing, air forces does not bombed hundred of Km at one time, it targets specifics cities, not 200 at the same time.
When a country make a amphibious landing, it does not occupy 1000 square km at one time. It occupy the coastal area at first.
By adding some provinces in important countries, it will add strategic depth in the game.
Etc....
I made some suggestions, and Mr V will decide what he keeps and what he refuses.
When Mr V. will starts the modifications, I am more then ready to shows WWII era territorial maps and/or google map pics.
Voilà !
Last edited:
In the case of Spain I suggested 3 new provinces. I have serious doubts about a 4th province to ask.
Lugo as key and entrance to Galicia from the Leonese Mountains and the Asturian coast, split from Vigo and La Coruña.
Valladolid as the main city and central part of the Northern Plateau, with the others provinces there all converging into it. Also seat of the Spanish Cavalry and regional industrial center.
Cartagena as one of the most important cities in Spain, seat of the submarine fleet before the SCW and the Arsenal and Shipyard of Cartagena. Main Spanish naval base in the Mediterranean, and Naval Command of the Spanish Republic. Also there, La Unión hills with the production of metal and rares, not so much cause they were in crisis from 1920 to 1950, but still important specially for SCW.
The 4th one is Guadarrama, as a barrier from Segovia to Madrid, making Segovia plains or hills, and Guadarrama being the mountain separating the plateau from Madrid city. Not really big cities there, Guadarrama itself is the name of the mountain range and one little town there. You could use Lozoya or El Escorial also to name that province, but think Guadarrama would fit better.
I find that more provinces give in some ways better chances, and while I would like to split more provinces, these 4 are the ones I feel really justified and necessary.
Also, in the Spanish Protectorare, I would split Tetuán, the capital of the Protectorate, from Tangiers, that was a free city not part of it.
And for connections in Spain, i suggest to modify the Zaragoza - Lérida - Tarragona border, making Zgz border to Lérida, not Tarragona. Also, Zgz shouldn't be connected to Castellón, but the river there makes things difficult. One option is to even visually connected, make it impassable. I know in TRP you cant go from Zgz to Castellón, but I don't remember now if you can do it in vanilla.
Last edited:
- 1
First thank you for your work !!!
Secondly I had an interested in making some modifications to the map myself (my main goal was to correct some graphical problems linked to sea color being present on province name and no name on cities). I tried to follow the informations you gave in another post and use the same tools you used. But I had major issues with the map compiler and decompaler. I used the one we can find online on DH wiki modding tools topic. Is the one you gave on the link different ?
Lastly, a message for the community, I'm glad to see that although some tensions rises on the visions, the community is mature enough to go over it and work together. So big up to this.
Mr Nick 3210,
I think that you are right to correct connection mistakes.
I will gives serious explanations for each proposed changes when Mr V will be ready.
Many big provinces are unrealistic, an army does not usually occupy 1000 square km when winning a battle.
In Western Europe and in Japan, provinces should be much smaller then in Russia. they are more heavily populated then in Russia per example. It will take more time to captured heavily populated provinces, and naval invasion or aerial battles will be concentrated on smaller territory.
Look at the size of USSR with around 170 M inhabitants in 1939 vs proper Germany with around 70 M inhabitants. THe density is much higner in Germany, France, Italy, Poland, Netherlands, Belgium, etc.
Even in USSR, some provinces are too big. Per example, Ukhta represents approximatly actual Arkhangelsk Oblast (less Arkhangelsk) + Komi Republic + Nentes Autonomous Okrug.
Well, in 1939 this is the population of these territories (according to Wikipedia) :
- Arkhangelsk Oblast = 1,199,000 inhabitants - Arkhangelsk had 284,000 inhabitants in 1939 so leaves around 900 000 inhabitants ;
- Komi Republic = 318,000 inhabitants ;
- Nentes Autonomous Okrug = 46,000 inhabitants ;
Total around1,300,000 = inhabitants (without Arkhangelsk) ;
That's a lot of people for that big provinces. The territory should be split in two at least.
I'll carry on my suggestion, and I'll be ready when you have questions !
Have a good day.
Last edited:
Mr Tioperete,
Could you send a picture of proposed changes to allow Mr V. to evaluate it ?
This is exactly the idea that also came to my mind yesterday when Tioperete asked to save Nakhichevan so that everyone could set fire to Armenian-Azerbaijani problems in this region.
Then I thought "I should check the northern zones of Russia to see if they could be combined to get additional donor IDs."
I will definitely check this possibility ))
Last edited:
Mr Nick 3210 & Mr Vilochka.
I proposed a very serious modification close to Leningrad. I never really succeed to implement it.
Leningrad never fell because it was supply via the Lake Ladoga.
Could you add a working port at Tikhvin, an divide Leningrad in two area in order to have a port on the east side of Leningrad ?
I know that Leningrad was supply mostly by trucks driving on Lake Ladoga during winter in reality, but my solution is maybe the most sensible one ?
Or, do you have another solution allowing supply of Leningrad while encircle ? At least during winter.
The fact taht Leningrad survives stopped the german progression toward Moscow, it is a major mistake in the game, and it ease sthe german invasion unfairly.
Have a good day !
I proposed a very serious modification close to Leningrad. I never really succeed to implement it.
Leningrad never fell because it was supply via the Lake Ladoga.
Could you add a working port at Tikhvin, an divide Leningrad in two area in order to have a port on the east side of Leningrad ?
I know that Leningrad was supply mostly by trucks driving on Lake Ladoga during winter in reality, but my solution is maybe the most sensible one ?
Or, do you have another solution allowing supply of Leningrad while encircle ? At least during winter.
The fact taht Leningrad survives stopped the german progression toward Moscow, it is a major mistake in the game, and it ease sthe german invasion unfairly.
Have a good day !
so that's 360,000 people, it's less then '1 on-map-MP' out of Arkhangelsk area. As I wrote abobe, Ukhta province is OK, no need to change it.