• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
There's a limit to how far you can push that one out, really, if you want France to be any kind of threat rather than having its face torn off by Austria and the Spaniards.
That's true. I have seen Castile eviscerate France if they can get to them before they get 'Elan'. But this is also dependent on the alliance webs. As it stands I think Castile should also have its morale bonus later. No one should have semi-invincible armies at/near the start of the game in my view. It should take time/effort to get the morale bonus.
 
I don't think anyone is against dynamic national ideas though. Or a broader variety within ideas. The possibility to alter your NI's with the recent update has been very well recieved as far as I can see. But so far I don't see anyone coming up with a better suggestion than NI's to differentiate tags mechanically, while at the same time providing some cultural-historical context.

But of course dynamic NI's would be an improvement. But that's not to say that being at peace for 26 years should remove the idea completely - a militarized state can be at peace too.
Are we going to have an AI we can trust with such a decision? Can the game be balanced well enough to give the player worthy adversaries without the certainty of particular buffs being present?
 
While there are already enough provinces, I do think that EU5 could benefit from implementing multiple "baronies" (to use the CK3 term) within provinces for armies to maneuver. I love how the number of provinces in the Imperator map adds depth to warfare, and this would allow EU5 to have a similar effect without adding a bunch of micro-provinces.


That already exists in the game. States are about the number of provinces the original EU 4 started with, and provinces within the state act as baronies.
 
Are you really arguing that graphical and performance mods meaningfully change how hard a game is?

If you're not then you're comment is assuming EU5 on release will be an unimprovable* gameplay experience without UI, performance, or other buggy woes.

*removed the word perfect for your reading comprehension.

Or, crazy notion, I don't think it will be so bad as Vicky3's UI, so mods won't be necessary to make it playable.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
I don't know that other ways you mean, but what I would like out of pops is:
- manpower extracted from population, so a Ottoman army of 1M would actually result in a Constantinople with only women and children, thus having no work-force and the economy in shambles.
- realistic propagation of religion as to simulate the real internal battlesduring reformation, instead of a on-off switch off religion per province.
- colonization where actual people move to the new world at the price of population in their home country. Would also open up the failed expel minorities option again. And result in a new world with realistic culture distribution instead of a patchwork of old-world provinces and religion.

Plus it opens up possibilities of civil wars and empires collapsing because of those internal cultural and religious imbalances in provinces and states, economical output related to population and technology instead of 'development', et cetera.

If there are better ways to achieve this without pops I would obviously fine with it. But I would be pretty disappointed if EUV still had a magical manpower-pool and binary cultural and religious switches.
Not to mention that pops are the only way to simulate religion in east Asia, where their religions and religious makeups are a lot less like Europe (which is what EU4 simulates) where everyone in the society has a theoretically uniform belief system and differences can cause a massive crisis. See “Confucianism” being the National religion of Ming for an example, and compare that to the reality
 
Another thing I would like to see is less of generic event spam.
I have mixed feelings on this. We all want more specific flavour, of course, but one thing I actually miss when playing Victoria 3 and Imperator 2.0 (the latter of which I will praise until the day I die) is actually generic events. I:R has them, but they focus on the characters about whom you don't really care, and likewise for Vicky 3. It feels like nothing much is going on in the broader country - some actors in it do some things, but otherwise, everything is proceeding just as the player intended.

If EU5 can hit on something more like Stellaris' anomalies and archaeology digs - generic stuff that still makes the galaxy feel like stuff is happening or has happened in it - I think it'd be in a good place.

... And I'd miss the comet if it was gone.
 
  • 6
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I have mixed feelings on this. We all want more specific flavour, of course, but one thing I actually miss when playing Victoria 3 and Imperator 2.0 (the latter of which I will praise until the day I die) is actually generic events. I:R has them, but they focus on the characters about whom you don't really care, and likewise for Vicky 3. It feels like nothing much is going on in the broader country - some actors in it do some things, but otherwise, everything is proceeding just as the player intended.

If EU5 can hit on something more like Stellaris' anomalies and archaeology digs - generic stuff that still makes the galaxy feel like stuff is happening or has happened in it - I think it'd be in a good place.

... And I'd miss the comet if it was gone.
For the Bronze Age mod I am adding tons of flavour events, some of which will be probably ported to other mods as well. Currently I have made over 100, all having to do with trade goods (most of them admittedly focusing on Lapis Lazuli). Other modders add tons of flavour too.
 
  • 3Love
Reactions:
I hope Paradox doesn't focus on graphics. Sure, add 3D models for pops like Vic3 but for the love of god don't bother with forced terrain map mode or dynamic cities or splashing water.
 
  • 5
  • 2Like
Reactions:
I don't think anyone is against dynamic national ideas though. Or a broader variety within ideas. The possibility to alter your NI's with the recent update has been very well recieved as far as I can see. But so far I don't see anyone coming up with a better suggestion than NI's to differentiate tags mechanically, while at the same time providing some cultural-historical context.

But of course dynamic NI's would be an improvement. But that's not to say that being at peace for 26 years should remove the idea completely - a militarized state can be at peace too.

I guess it depends on what you mean by dynamic. For EU5, I'd prefer that no countries get any centuries long buffs for things that occurred in reality over a short time period in the 18th or 19th centuries. Instead, I'd rather them give non-static buffs to certain countries at the start date for historical reasons that occurred recently prior to 1444. That is, im ok with Portugal starting out with better naval/trade and with Ottomans starting out with better siege ability than everyone else, because that's a fair reflection of how it was in 1444. As long as those buffs can decay or be eventually mitigated in game. For flavourful things that occurred much later in the game's timeline that are harder to model in-game (i.e., Sweden and Prussia's military quality), I'd prefer that be something that any country can assess as long as some conditions are met that make sense. If Prussia in-game does similar to that, then the flavour text can be easily added.
 
Last edited:
  • 7
  • 3Like
Reactions:
I guess it depends on what you mean by dynamic. For EU5, I'd prefer that no countries get any centuries long buffs for things that occurred in reality over a short time period in the 18th or 19th centuries. Instead, I'd rather them give non-static buffs to certain countries at the start date for historical reasons that occurred recently prior to 1444. That is, im ok with Portugal starting out with better naval/trade and with Ottomans starting out with better siege ability than everyone else, because that's a fair reflection of how it was in 1444. For flavourful things that occurred much later in the game's timeline that are harder to model in-game (i.e., Sweden and Prussia's military quality), I'd prefer that be something that any country can assess as long as some conditions are met that make sense. If Prussia in-game does similar to that, then the flavour text can be easily added.
Still though, if I'm playing Russia, the experience is cheapened if Sweden doesn't show up with Space Marines, even if it takes a kludge to get them there.
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
I feel the complete opposite. Making something happen in the game just because it happened in reality feels bad to me.
I used to agree with you, but when I saw the results I got buyer's regret. Although the game should not be strictly railroaded, there should be guardrails sufficient to keep some semblance of historical context intact.
 
  • 4Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Edit: After rereading your post I can understand that it gives you an additional psychological resistance against cheating, which is a fair point, but I do not think that it is outweighing the right of e.g. colorblind persons to have access to the achievements too.
Could also allow achievements vs not based on game settings, and just not require ironman to be one of those settings w/o actually removing it.
 
Edit: After rereading your post I can understand that it gives you an additional psychological resistance against cheating, which is a fair point, but I do not think that it is outweighing the right of e.g. colorblind persons to have access to the achievements too.

Pretty easily fixed by having an integrated color-blind mode or two like a number of games these days...
 
manpower extracted from population, so a Ottoman army of 1M would actually result in a Constantinople with only women and children, thus having no work-force and the economy in shambles.
Manpower is already a function of “population”, abstracted from dev.

Make regiments cost numberofmeninregiment in upkeep, and make production, trade power, all other economic outputs vary by the proportion of your maximum manpower you have in reserve. There you go: you now need to dynamically balance your total troops (and ships, why are sailors a different resource to manpower?) against your economy. No additional mechanics or performance overhead, no whacky POP behaviour.
realistic propagation of religion as to simulate the real internal battlesduring reformation, instead of a on-off switch off religion per province.
This is the most compelling argument I’ve seen for POPs, but I don’t think it stacks up well. The Reformation (for instance) wasn’t a case of individual people in Europe deciding that actually they were Protestants, it was a matter of elites changing their views or allegiances. In that light I think the provincial on/off works quite well, and we’d be better served by getting rid of missionaries than by implementing a gradual POP-assimilation process. If we wanted to further improve the EU model I would suggest tying religion to estates and estates into provinces: where do the provincial nobility’s allegiances lie? The clergy? The burghers?

Breaking down estates into more granular levels and introducing a peasantry “estate” would make this structure even stronger, and massively strengthen the rest of the game. POPs would distract from that rather than support or enhance it.
- colonization where actual people move to the new world at the price of population in their home country. Would also open up the failed expel minorities option again. And result in a new world with realistic culture distribution instead of a patchwork of old-world provinces and religion.
There are a number of ways to solve this in the existing system:
  • Colonies cost manpower
  • Colonisation slowly erodes development from your territories
More significant, though, is the observation that colonisation in the EU time period didn’t often hinge on moving thousands of people overseas. Any system that, prevented (for example) Portugal or a similar small state taking control of Brazil would be a bad system.

The further we move away from the idea that colonisation is about shifting people into new lands, and toward the understanding that it’s about co-opting and working existing peoples and power structures into the coloniser’s system of order, the better. POPs, again, would undermine rather than support that improvement. The vast majority of “European” settlers in the colonies were born there, and should have no bearing whatsoever on populations back home.

Like religion, I think this is another example of an issue (“colonisation happens too fast”) people think POPs will fix because they don’t understand how the existing system is failing to accurately represent history. The real challenges in colonising territory were about the difficulty of projecting power and maintaining control of distant lands, not about literally not having people to send there.

So EU needs to better model those challenges, which doesn’t require POPs at all. Implementing POPs, in fact, would generate all kinds of performance overhead and new further bugs and oddities in how the POPs behave distracting and quite probably exacerbating the problems that they were initially implemented to “fix”.
 
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:
I think EUV should get rid of development or at least direct player control over development, clicking a button to make a province better immediately is a bit meh. I'd prefer if provinces grew naturally (and much slower than AI and the player develop provinces currently), also natural decreases in development through war and revolts etc. There is a lot of dev-inflation in the game resulting in million strong armies by the end date and at least to me the game loses its fun when every war is a million soldier world war.

Also hard-coded trade routes, I like the EU4 trade system but its just not dynamic enough.

Did you play Imperator:Rome by any chance? The development (pop growth in I:R) is like that there - it grows naturally, slowly over time, and pops can be lost through wars. But, I came to like it less than EU4’s style, because there is no player agency in it. If you want to play tall, you basically…just wait (a long time). And do nothing. Maybe take the occasional +1% pop growth invention. And by the time you ‘grow’ one extra pop, you realize your neighbors doubled in size through conquest.

I don’t like EU4’s dev bloat either, and the fact how it interacts with war score cost (e.g. can’t force religion on 2 prov minor because the cost is over 100), but imo any design that removes player agency is wrong.

The most sensible solution to me would be to add a time component to development in EU5. Today, you can make any backwater the city of worlds desire overnight, which is nonsense. A ‘dev point increase’ should take e.g. 2 years to come to fruition, to mirror the time and effort needed for such investment in province infrastructure, etc.
 
  • 2
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions: