I agree. Their NI should be different. Less Arabized, more Coptic with Christian Egyptian names of rulers. And different name of course like it's the case with India.
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How about following in the example of Scandinavia, and unlocking the ability to form egypt or arabia before tech 20 with certain tags if they meet certain requirements/fulfilled certain missions?
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A formable Iran, perhaps some sort of mechanic similar to Burgundy at collapse of Timurid state to ensure it happens more often. Connected to this, a better way to represent the triple rivalry between Ottomans, Iran and Mameluke at the end of 15th century, which was a defining moment of middle-eastern history, with more events, flavor. Iran in general needs to happen a lot more commonly at collapse of Timurids, much like Netherlands. Shifting Mamelukes from somehow being an administrative focused state to behave more like military-caste ruled state, similar to mechanics like Monastic orders.
Ottomans, Iranians, Mamluks, Turkic minors should all get their militaries shift to be more focused on cavalry, particularly Ottomans, Iran and Mamelukes should be able to get over 50% cavalry armies and in general be somewhere between nomad and eastern Europe in terms of cavalry focus.
A new Ottoman mission tree, revolving around not just conquest but also period of stabilization and consolidation, with real and alt history focused on happenings in North Africa and Indian Ocean. New ideas for Ottomans, to include more their focus on logistics and bureaucracy, such as their ability to cheaply mass artillery. Also ways for Ottoman-Spain rivalry to actually happen over Mediterranean and Northern Africa and Portugal over Indian ocean, some events and missions to bring them to collision course. More ways for Ottomans and Venice to interact. Right now Ottomans get no way to actually represent the ways they were present and involved in North Africa and in Indian ocean and their conflicts with Spanish and Portuguese.
Regardless of people's general dislike for Ottomans and their strength, Ottomans are linchpin of Middle-east much like France is of continental Europe and it should be appropriately mechanically developed and given due fluff and attention with ability to have influence over many events and countries. It should also have enough alt-history scenarios, so many countries get events for taking Constantinople, Byzantium gets events over taking Venice but Ottomans don't even have any fluff for taking Vienna, or even some of the historical fluff like taking Cyprus.
Also most importantly Middle-eastern states need to have dedicated and tailored counter-parts in estates, particularly estate privileges and sales of titles. Most of it would be just name changes and fluff, but concept of sales of titles is also unfitting and there needs to be more fitting estate privileges that are different from European ones. So not an entirely new set of privileges, but removing some and adding others to be more fitting, and giving some name changes for rest.
Ottomans, Iranians, Mamluks, Turkic minors should all get their militaries shift to be more focused on cavalry, particularly Ottomans, Iran and Mamelukes should be able to get over 50% cavalry armies and in general be somewhere between nomad and eastern Europe in terms of cavalry focus.
A new Ottoman mission tree, revolving around not just conquest but also period of stabilization and consolidation, with real and alt history focused on happenings in North Africa and Indian Ocean. New ideas for Ottomans, to include more their focus on logistics and bureaucracy, such as their ability to cheaply mass artillery. Also ways for Ottoman-Spain rivalry to actually happen over Mediterranean and Northern Africa and Portugal over Indian ocean, some events and missions to bring them to collision course. More ways for Ottomans and Venice to interact. Right now Ottomans get no way to actually represent the ways they were present and involved in North Africa and in Indian ocean and their conflicts with Spanish and Portuguese.
Regardless of people's general dislike for Ottomans and their strength, Ottomans are linchpin of Middle-east much like France is of continental Europe and it should be appropriately mechanically developed and given due fluff and attention with ability to have influence over many events and countries. It should also have enough alt-history scenarios, so many countries get events for taking Constantinople, Byzantium gets events over taking Venice but Ottomans don't even have any fluff for taking Vienna, or even some of the historical fluff like taking Cyprus.
Also most importantly Middle-eastern states need to have dedicated and tailored counter-parts in estates, particularly estate privileges and sales of titles. Most of it would be just name changes and fluff, but concept of sales of titles is also unfitting and there needs to be more fitting estate privileges that are different from European ones. So not an entirely new set of privileges, but removing some and adding others to be more fitting, and giving some name changes for rest.
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There is Persia, which is formable Iran, just using the foreign name. Pahlavi Persia didn't transform into an entirely new country when Reza Shah Pahlavi asked foreign diplomats to use the native name.
If need be, I can imagine the tag having an option to choose the name when forming (like how Malaya can also be Nusantara, Srivijaya or Majapahit Empire) or getting the option to be renamed through a mission (like how Dai Viet can keep the name or can become Dai Nam or Viet Nam). But I don't see a reason making Iran and Persia two tags.
Persia should be called Iran but I was being unclear, I meant that it should be forming more reliably with mechanic support, similar to Burgundian succession in relation to Timurid collapse and Netherlands for adding Persian minors into it.
During an update for my mod, which was about the Middle East, I came across many fascinating stories about minor nations such as Oman, Hormuz, Yemen etc. While covering nations like Mamluks etc would technically be the popular choice, I really love these little tags with cool bits of history, and they give me a different kind of excitement. I think they better encapsulate the idea of "Guiding your nation" and "watching it grow and get strong / flourish" much better than starting already very strong and nigh-unstoppable. Some of my most interesting and awesome games where games where I struggled as a small nation.
In general, I believe that what makes the game infinitely cooler and more interesting is covering interesting history, like Persia's rulers dabbling in poetry and philosophy under pen-names or England sending Army Drill Reformers to Persia in order to better train the army, as a shield against the Ottoman Sultan. It's bits like these, when given proper attention, that make the game feel alive. Imagine reading about this stuff in an event and learning cool history while seeing it shape your country, really good stuff! (or even better; if there was a way for us to communicate these unique bits of history via stuff like reforms, estate privileges, decisions etc!)
In general, I believe that what makes the game infinitely cooler and more interesting is covering interesting history, like Persia's rulers dabbling in poetry and philosophy under pen-names or England sending Army Drill Reformers to Persia in order to better train the army, as a shield against the Ottoman Sultan. It's bits like these, when given proper attention, that make the game feel alive. Imagine reading about this stuff in an event and learning cool history while seeing it shape your country, really good stuff! (or even better; if there was a way for us to communicate these unique bits of history via stuff like reforms, estate privileges, decisions etc!)
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Events for this sort of fluff are definitely strongly lacking in middle-east, there are scarcely any form of cultural fluff even if they are political-diplomatic like Sultan Selim and Shah Ismail writing poetry to each other as a form of challenge and taunting which could be back and forth events. You don't see how Sultan Suleiman's vizier sent an order to craft a Western style crown from Venice to be displayed in his parades in Hungary to legitimize his rule to his Catholic subjects. In the end you are left feeling there was nothing going on in middle-east except warmongering, which was definitely part of the culture but it was multi-dimensional.
See my thing is, while the Ottomans' strength at the moment definitely feels overkill, the escalation of how powerful Poland currently is makes me feel a little uncomfortable nerfing them too much. Plus, sometimes Austria keeps the burgundian inheritance and becomes completely absurd to the point that they can just drive the Ottomans out of the region, even at the Ottomans' current level of strength, meaning that making them weaker would just exacerbate that risk.
Yeah, definitely agreed here. I think one good example of something to include here would be depicting the trading that the Ottomans frequently did with Venice - I think one kind of interesting option could be the ability to pull Venice in as kind of a protectorate as the Ottomans if you choose to pursue friendlier relations with them.
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Can't be bothered to search through the whole thread so no idea if it's been mentioned yet - but Hormuz and Oman improvement would be nice. They're a thorn in eachothers side (Omani provinces wreck Hormuz' religious unity, Hormuz owns Omani cores and blocks their access to the sea) and should get a nice reward for beating the other. They should have fitting missions for opening moves that a player can of course make use of but the AI is likely to trigger as well.
Oman probably needs more of a helping hand, so they could have a mission that you can pop when you insult Hormuz and have a general - you instantly recruit 2 infantry and 1 cavalry in your capital, Hormuz auto-declares on you (so it's like the 100 years war, or Denmark provoking the Hansa), you get +5% discipline for 5 years, and Masqat gets a defensiveness malus. If the Oman AI happens to insult Hormuz within the first few years of the game, they are very likely to get their cores back. After taking these, there's a decision to move capital to Masqat for some extra dev and upgrade the CoT to level 2. Also a mission reward for taking the cores - start building 4 galleys, 4 light ships and 4 transports at reduced time and cost, and claims on surrounding areas.
In reference to the Omani empire, some mission progress and owning enough provinces in Arabia and East Africa should grant empire rank that can potentially be achieved at about 500-600 dev.
For Hormuz, you get claims on Oman after building to force limit. Wiping them off the map gives an extra missionary and reduced missionary maintenance for 5 years and +missionary strength and -unrest in relevant areas, as there's no Ibadi state to proselytize anymore.
For players this makes for comfortable openers to build up and stabilize these nations a bit, and for the AI it makes it allows for one or the other to somewhat consistently rise as a medium-sized power between the Mamluks and Timurids.
Oman probably needs more of a helping hand, so they could have a mission that you can pop when you insult Hormuz and have a general - you instantly recruit 2 infantry and 1 cavalry in your capital, Hormuz auto-declares on you (so it's like the 100 years war, or Denmark provoking the Hansa), you get +5% discipline for 5 years, and Masqat gets a defensiveness malus. If the Oman AI happens to insult Hormuz within the first few years of the game, they are very likely to get their cores back. After taking these, there's a decision to move capital to Masqat for some extra dev and upgrade the CoT to level 2. Also a mission reward for taking the cores - start building 4 galleys, 4 light ships and 4 transports at reduced time and cost, and claims on surrounding areas.
In reference to the Omani empire, some mission progress and owning enough provinces in Arabia and East Africa should grant empire rank that can potentially be achieved at about 500-600 dev.
For Hormuz, you get claims on Oman after building to force limit. Wiping them off the map gives an extra missionary and reduced missionary maintenance for 5 years and +missionary strength and -unrest in relevant areas, as there's no Ibadi state to proselytize anymore.
For players this makes for comfortable openers to build up and stabilize these nations a bit, and for the AI it makes it allows for one or the other to somewhat consistently rise as a medium-sized power between the Mamluks and Timurids.
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I'm not an expert on Semitic languages, but just because they come from the same family doesn't mean that their cultures are close to each other. We can take a look at Indo-European English, Latvian and Persian, for example. Another thing is that Arameans and Assyrians are a continuation of the pre-Islamic cultures of the region. They surely deserve to be separate from Arabic Leventine, at least one Aramean culture would be good enough.
I agree about Trebizond's mission tree. One side basically focuses on restoring the Byzantine Empire and after you achieve it, you gain access to the rest of the Byzantine mission tree. The other one focuses on restoring Pontus.
I would still like to see them use the yellow colour for the tag, even if they make a new flag for Pontus. It's easily distinguishable from other great powers in the region. Although Kurdistan could be yellow, too.
Do you have any ideas for a monument in Oman? Maybe something unique just for the Ibadi religion? I had already made suggestions before about Bahla Fort and Aflaj Irrigation Systems of Oman. Maybe you have some other ideas.
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It can work, too, Similarly like the City of Kilwa.
If the new dlc is for either South America or the Middle East. Paradox would pick Middle East for sure. Tell me what South American nation do you play besides the Incans? The Incan mechanic is good enough as it is. If PDX wants to update this region it should be a Free Update because honestly a DLC based solely on Inca wont sell.
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Which really already had 2 DLCs and at least that many map updates which is kind of a lot for an area that's there to get trampled...
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