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I want more characters. Corporations, politicians, explorers, capitalists, union leaders, newspapers. If CK2 is an aristocracy of birth and EU4 is the creation of the nation state, then V3 should be the aristocracy of money and the battle for control of the soul of the nation state.
The economic sim is a soulless and inaccurate simulation that fails to drive realistic behavior. The pop system doesn't come close to capturing mass politics.
Characters with specific and well articulated goals like "conquer China so I can sell that tea" or "African territories please the wildly influential colonial society".
Factories weren't identikit buildings that popped up in identikit gray wastes but the intersection of labor and capital driven by various interests (yes, including labor unions and communes). They represented and evolution of cottage production, not an alternative to it. Driving resource consumption and goods production through characters and institutions rather than specific factories would better capture the era and reduce the unnecessary complexity of the system.
I'd much prefer to explore something along these lines than yet another messy blob game focused around identikit boxes and pops.
The economic sim is a soulless and inaccurate simulation that fails to drive realistic behavior. The pop system doesn't come close to capturing mass politics.
Characters with specific and well articulated goals like "conquer China so I can sell that tea" or "African territories please the wildly influential colonial society".
Factories weren't identikit buildings that popped up in identikit gray wastes but the intersection of labor and capital driven by various interests (yes, including labor unions and communes). They represented and evolution of cottage production, not an alternative to it. Driving resource consumption and goods production through characters and institutions rather than specific factories would better capture the era and reduce the unnecessary complexity of the system.
I'd much prefer to explore something along these lines than yet another messy blob game focused around identikit boxes and pops.
One thing that Vic2 could have done better was modeling autocracies, like Metternich's Austria or Prussia. It feels like the politics and dissent system is based on a parliamentary/republican model no matter what nation you are in.
I agree with maybe different pops having different goals, but do we need more pop types? Can't corporations be exemplified by capitalists (which is already in-game)? Can't union leaders be exemplified by laborers? And why expand with politicians and newspaper, the former being the actor executing the will of the mass while the latter being the funnel of information?
Isn't resource consumption driven by pop's demands as well? And isn't what you're discussing (factories as an evolution, not an alternative) just means adding weight/additional checks for capitalists to invest their money in (prioritize provinces which have RGO of their resource). Or, are we talking about an institution spread system from EU4? So each provinces have a level of "industrialization" to boost their RGO, which would be fastened by the needs of the pops?
I like the front system in HOI4, it makes warfare less cumbersome. Hopefully V3 does the same.
I would like to see a way to make other countries drift towards your Ideology, Like the 'Boost party popularity' in HOI IV.
I'd like an engaging system for colonization, that still manages to leave enough room for African nations to do something. Of course there need to be African countries in the first place, that are not just Sokoto in the middle of nothing. While southern Africa could be mostly empty (western South Africa, Namibia, Cameroon etc. where devoid of real countries after all), West Africa, the Swahili coast, the Congo, Somalia just can't be empty. Especially after me made so much progress in EU4.
"Empty areas" (people lived in most places, so they weren't really empty, but you know what I mean) could be colonized like in VicII, but existing "primitive" countries would have to be coerced into protectorates and absorbed slowly, because it should be hardly possible for Europeans just to invade Africa, due to tropical diseases, heat, lack of infrastructure etc.
African countries, especially player-led ones, should be able to play along for a while, trying to reap the benefits of being a protectorate (foreign investment, infrastructure build-up), before severing ties and potentially sparking of a war with the overlord.
"Empty areas" (people lived in most places, so they weren't really empty, but you know what I mean) could be colonized like in VicII, but existing "primitive" countries would have to be coerced into protectorates and absorbed slowly, because it should be hardly possible for Europeans just to invade Africa, due to tropical diseases, heat, lack of infrastructure etc.
African countries, especially player-led ones, should be able to play along for a while, trying to reap the benefits of being a protectorate (foreign investment, infrastructure build-up), before severing ties and potentially sparking of a war with the overlord.
Possibly, but I think the HOI4 feature is a little too shallow for Vicky. Maybe if they tie it in with the politics system and the ability to agitate rebel types.
The trade system definitely needs work, but I don't want them to turn it into anything like the EU4 trade system (which is designed to steer certain countries to act a certain way, not to accurately reflect economic realities). Basically I hope Vicky 3 still leans more towards simulation than gaminess.
Vicky 3 (if necessary, renamed...) should start with the American revolution. Yes, this period overlaps with EU4... but isn't handled very well, and everyone knows that few players see the end game. There are so many fascinating revolutions towards the late 18th century; the Napoleonic wars are a fascinating start; and its here that the industrial revolution first gets going. Economic developments, social classes and enlightenment revolutions are obviously handled better by Vicky 3's pop and politics systems than EU4, and this period deserves Paradox's attention.
I would probably also - shock, horror - end the game before WW1, and then have a standalone game (or possibly expansion to Vicky/Hoi4) to handle that.
I would probably also - shock, horror - end the game before WW1, and then have a standalone game (or possibly expansion to Vicky/Hoi4) to handle that.
Other than better military mechanics? Make world leaders, whether they be Presidents or Kings/Queens actually truly exist. Be able to have Presidents with names and get a little more personal in elections, instead of mostly nameless and nonexistent leaders and impersonal elections. That was always to me the biggest flaw of Vicky 2's political system, the fact that for all intents and purposes, Presidents/Kings weren't really a thing. They didn't have names or presence. If, as an example, I'm in American Civil War bookmark, I would like to know that the current leader of the USA is Abraham Lincoln, how popular he is in the country, how he's fared in the Primaries. Maybe even give him traits and political opinions.
Vicky 2 is my favorite Paradox game, but Vicky 3 should fix several things:
- real politicians and ministers. People mostly vote for some kind of leader, not only an abstract ideology
- new reform system. For example: urge for social reforms should be more linked to pops wealth. Sometimes i have high urge for welfare reforms, despite i have almost no unemployment and poverty
- remove Anarcho-Liberals. That's just way too unrealistic. Of course there were a lot of anarchistic/libertarian philosophers at the time, but most popular anarchism was some kind of socialism or leftism in general.
- the election events should be removed and replaced by more long term effects or at least should be more connected to current affairs. For example territorial claims, uprisings, diplomatic relations, etc...
- more detailed tariff and tax system
- combat should be more like HoI but not that complex
- railway also gets quite annoying as time goes on. There should be - besides laissez faire - an an option to privatize it or pass it to the AI
- Trade should be more player friendly. I've always automized it
- if reactionaries, fascists or conservatives are in charge or support for jingoism or some new kind of nationalism is high Germany should get cores on Austria/Sudetes if it's formed historically. It's weird to have southern German patriots rising after you inherit Austria as Germany
Just a few thoughts. But in general it should not be something completely new, because Vicky 2 is a unique and fantastic game.
- real politicians and ministers. People mostly vote for some kind of leader, not only an abstract ideology
- new reform system. For example: urge for social reforms should be more linked to pops wealth. Sometimes i have high urge for welfare reforms, despite i have almost no unemployment and poverty
- remove Anarcho-Liberals. That's just way too unrealistic. Of course there were a lot of anarchistic/libertarian philosophers at the time, but most popular anarchism was some kind of socialism or leftism in general.
- the election events should be removed and replaced by more long term effects or at least should be more connected to current affairs. For example territorial claims, uprisings, diplomatic relations, etc...
- more detailed tariff and tax system
- combat should be more like HoI but not that complex
- railway also gets quite annoying as time goes on. There should be - besides laissez faire - an an option to privatize it or pass it to the AI
- Trade should be more player friendly. I've always automized it
- if reactionaries, fascists or conservatives are in charge or support for jingoism or some new kind of nationalism is high Germany should get cores on Austria/Sudetes if it's formed historically. It's weird to have southern German patriots rising after you inherit Austria as Germany
Just a few thoughts. But in general it should not be something completely new, because Vicky 2 is a unique and fantastic game.
Vicky 2 is one of more my favorite games but after giving it a go it really needs a heavy rework.
1. the whole way in which armies appear or disapear is really strange. The US at the start of the game has virtually no troops and appears to be losing troop pops also.
2. the economy is a bit strange and requires way to much micromanagement. I really never figured it out.
3. rebels are a pain and dont make much sense.
4. Game is too railroaded. Overall more alternative histories should be included.
5. Overall due to the way wars were fought military aspects should be far more important basically it should be a little more like hoi4 in this way though this shouldnt be its main focus.
6. there should be missions and ways to steer your country better into specific types of play.
7. democracies shouldnt be able to easily declare war on each other in fact many states shouldnt have it so easy. there are many times that I felt the wars were not very realistic.
If i were to say what I think the main issue with Vicky is that it at times feels you arent really playing more like watching.
The above may feel like too harsh criticism but certain things in Vicky 2 were absolutly great, in particular
1. crisis international crisis was great
2. revolution changing government I love this idea but it needs a bit of work overall would be great to really steer your nation from one government type to another atm its a little bit of a stumble in the dark.
3. Great war era. I really like this it really feels that the game changes after a point, though more of this would be great similar to EUIV periods. in particular the rise of facism and communism.
1. the whole way in which armies appear or disapear is really strange. The US at the start of the game has virtually no troops and appears to be losing troop pops also.
2. the economy is a bit strange and requires way to much micromanagement. I really never figured it out.
3. rebels are a pain and dont make much sense.
4. Game is too railroaded. Overall more alternative histories should be included.
5. Overall due to the way wars were fought military aspects should be far more important basically it should be a little more like hoi4 in this way though this shouldnt be its main focus.
6. there should be missions and ways to steer your country better into specific types of play.
7. democracies shouldnt be able to easily declare war on each other in fact many states shouldnt have it so easy. there are many times that I felt the wars were not very realistic.
If i were to say what I think the main issue with Vicky is that it at times feels you arent really playing more like watching.
The above may feel like too harsh criticism but certain things in Vicky 2 were absolutly great, in particular
1. crisis international crisis was great
2. revolution changing government I love this idea but it needs a bit of work overall would be great to really steer your nation from one government type to another atm its a little bit of a stumble in the dark.
3. Great war era. I really like this it really feels that the game changes after a point, though more of this would be great similar to EUIV periods. in particular the rise of facism and communism.
4. Really? I always found Victoria 2 to be one of the least railroading latest-generation Paradox games. The only thing pretty much guaranteed to happen is the American Civil War (can be avoided if you are really clever/lucky). Sometimes I wish there was more railroading to allow for things like Belgian Congo or French colonization of Indochina.
6. I agree, but wouldn't this go directly against your point #4?
7. Pretty much for the entirety of human history before the 20th century wars were fought all the time, either to acquire some rightful piece of once-owned land, some faraway piece of land for its resources, or just to avenge perceived wrongs against the nation. The largest democracies of the time, the UK, France and the USA, went to war many times during the Victorian era, sometimes against other democracies (e.g. Mexican-American War, though Mexico under Antonio López de Santa Anna was pretty much a dictatorship).
Victoria 2 is extremely complex under the hood, which is why you can end up feeling like you're passively watching when you don't have a firm grip on the underlying mechanics. Victoria 3 should be more transparent (better tutorials, more feedback from player actions, more economic and demographic data to work with) but it definitely should not get simpler.
Yes, you should be able to get all information and easier see what influences what. But no simplification, rather clarification.
The ability to release/create your own countries based on selecting, giving them provinces as you see to bring their borders into fruition as a nation, their government, etc.