when we have some news?

[BoraBora]

Which is another reason why they'd want to release B&P as quickly as possible, when you think about it.
(...)

I don't disagree with your points but I stopped speculating about delivery dates. Their reason to delay B&P again, this time for 6 months (last time was from Q1 2025 to Q2 2025, only 3 months) may be simply because they're as stuck with the code than with the console version and the asset editor. Maybe it'll be released Q4 2025, maybe not. It's the 4th time they delay it, so who knows?

I hear you about the money the 1rst DLC not included in the UE could earn them but they also have a much bigger cashcow in progress with the console version. Some have asked themselves how many peeps are working on the PC version. Probably not much and probably even less on the DLC which would explain how 6 months were not enough to develop a solid B&P. So having already cashed in the money for B&P from the UE buyers, why not let just a couple of devs working on B&P for months and get everybody else on the console and the most outrageous bugs?

I don't know, most of our speculations were wrong because both CO and PDX have been regularly impredictable.

 

[Civ5rako]

For the record, if I'm allowed to speculate, I think this DLC was intended to refurbish the whole goods system, or was otherwise heavily reliant on it working smoothly (what with shipping goods around in ports and all that - the little information we got, specifically mentioned loading cranes). The last patch at the anniversary failed to fix this system, and presumably they didn't manage to fully untangle it before the target release date for the DLC either. The DLC would not be worth the money without the functioning system, so they decided to delay it.

Great posting.

What I am not sure about is if this DLC was intended to repair the economic system. I agree that it would have been a necessity though.

But I am really not sure if CO did realize that.
From what they are delivering (or more correctly, what they are not delivering) it seems they are living in another world of expectations and plans.
There is a difference between not delivering some "nice to haves" like bicycles and animations and not delivering a working simulation. The Anniversary patch was - so to speak - hopping up and down and waving a big red sign "I NEED a hotfix!!!" - but nothing.

 

[Askorti]

Secondly, releasing B&P in Q4 means the next DLC will be delayed too. As you say, the B&P sales money have largely been accounted for already, which means they're in a hurry to ship something people would spend additional money on. They probably have an internal roadmap with several DLCs and paid content packs lined up, and pushing back B&P means pushing back all the others too. Consider the pace of DLCs for CS1's first few years; they probably had a cadence like that in mind for the sequel too.

They might have had such plans before the release of the game, but now? I would not be surprised in the slightest if they just release the DLC they're legally obligated to release as part of the UE and then either close up shop or go completely into maintenance mode. In which case, the timing of the release stops being as important. If anything, delaying it could in a way extend the life of the game, as it keeps people guessing. If they admit that the game is dead, the sales will probably go down even further, because who wants to buy a dead PDX game?

 

[Codraroll]

They might have had such plans before the release of the game, but now? I would not be surprised in the slightest if they just release the DLC they're legally obligated to release as part of the UE and then either close up shop or go completely into maintenance mode.

If they intend to close up shop afterwards, why not just push whatever they have at the moment out the door right now, and consider their obligations fulfilled? It's not like a bare-bones Bridges & Ports DLC would be much more difficult to incorporate than a regular asset pack, if the intention was to get away with the legal mininum and then close. Keeping a studio in operation for half a year more would be counter-productive if they don't care about what happens afterward. The fact that they give development six more months, suggests they want to deliver something that wouldn't cause a massive backlash. That would not have been a concern if the plan was to just pack up and leave as soon as the product shipped.

 

[BoraBora]

If they intend to close up shop afterwards, why not just push whatever they have at the moment out the door right now, and consider their obligations fulfilled?

Because as someone said, admitting the game is abandoned the Steam rating would turn to red and pretty much nobody would buy it anymore. As long as they keep people hoping, there are new buyers every day. I'm not saying that's the case but it's a very plausible explanation.

 

[Askorti]

If they intend to close up shop afterwards, why not just push whatever they have at the moment out the door right now, and consider their obligations fulfilled?

The answer to that question is literally in the very post you partially quoted.

 

[Codraroll]

Because as someone said, admitting the game is abandoned the Steam rating would turn to red and pretty much nobody would buy it anymore. As long as they keep people hoping, there are new buyers every day. I'm not saying that's the case but it's a very plausible explanation.

But that logic only works if the income from new sales through that period is higher than the cost of running the studio; that is to say, the game is profitable. If so, why plan to abandon it?

 

[BoraBora]

But that logic only works if the income from new sales through that period is higher than the cost of running the studio; that is to say, the game is profitable. If so, why plan to abandon it?

We don't know how much people are still working at CO. They're probably only a few in which case the current stream of money may be enough to pay a couple of devs adding some touches on the final UE DLC and fixing a few bugs, mostly for the show. But definitely not enough to pay a 30 employee studio already working on the 2026 DLCs. CO/PDX have become secretive companies, anyway and the only communication we got for a year has been the marketing drivel. I'm pretty sure this won't change.

 

[Askorti]

But that logic only works if the income from new sales through that period is higher than the cost of running the studio; that is to say, the game is profitable. If so, why plan to abandon it?

It could be multiple things.
One example would be opportunity cost. It makes some money, so it's not unprofitable, but the money could be better spent by investing it into something else. (And that something else comes along later)
Another example could have something to do with quarterly reports. Shutting it down in Q2 could look bad, but shutting it after Q4 could be preferable. (hell, might even not report/finalize it until next year at that point) I don't know enough about corporate stuff to say that for sure, just spitballing.

The end point is that delaying till Q4 doesn't necessarily mean that they intend to keep going after, and they might still close up shop after the delay.

 

[Arararamba]

I really don't think that this game will be abandoned or that there is any issues with profitability and this is certainly the case for the future. This is a simulation that oby real life economics. So it's not just a game to have fun with. It's also real hard business if you want to test out your ideas digitally before implementing in the real world. So I guess there are many more interested parts than players, co/PDX or Steam for that matter. This is only my own thoughts.

But even without the preciously mentioned reason to maintain this project there are others. CS 1 was a major hit so there is potential to make this happen again. There isn't any competitor's. Cs1 and cs2 is in its own league.

What I'm saying is that Co/PDX have more room for doing wrong in the begining. Maybe not if you ask the players in this forum but co/PDX definitely think so. I think this will be PDX main income source in the future.

I mean it's a simulation of a city. Think what value there is for the police and other actors to mod the game and use it in there daily work.

I get this thoughts specially with cs2 with all this region packs. My city's has become so much more real looking. Cs1 was so gamie and the buildings where so ugly.

 

[Arararamba]

11 June we will se a few meaningless bridges and hopefully BUG FIXES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!¡!!!!?!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lys91]

I really don't think that this game will be abandoned or that there is any issues with profitability and this is certainly the case for the future. This is a simulation that oby real life economics. So it's not just a game to have fun with. It's also real hard business if you want to test out your ideas digitally before implementing in the real world. So I guess there are many more interested parts than players, co/PDX or Steam for that matter. This is only my own thoughts.

But even without the preciously mentioned reason to maintain this project there are others. CS 1 was a major hit so there is potential to make this happen again. There isn't any competitor's. Cs1 and cs2 is in its own league.

What I'm saying is that Co/PDX have more room for doing wrong in the begining. Maybe not if you ask the players in this forum but co/PDX definitely think so. I think this will be PDX main income source in the future.

I mean it's a simulation of a city. Think what value there is for the police and other actors to mod the game and use it in there daily work.

I get this thoughts specially with cs2 with all this region packs. My city's has become so much more real looking. Cs1 was so gamie and the buildings where so ugly.

Competitors are coming. CS1 lead designer working in a new studio on a "simulation game". Won't be surprised if games come out in the next 2 years. There is a golden opportunity.

 

[PTOE Plays]

Competitors are coming. CS1 lead designer working in a new studio on a "simulation game". Won't be surprised if games come out in the next 2 years. There is a golden opportunity.

Absolutely. Competitor studios must be falling over themselves take away the Cities Skylines discontent player base from Paradox right now. We aren’t seeing it right away because nobody was expecting this opportunity since CS had a solid monopoly for a long time, but I have a feeling we’ll have a batch of new modern city builders start to get advertised over the next couple years.

 

[Abitus]

This is a simulation that oby real life economics.

Sorry, but no.

Judging by average player reactions, the simulation is not even realistic enough for people to actually see consequences of their in-game actions. A lot of things in the simulation have been repeatedly pointed out as "too difficult to understand" or even "too much magic". Also, even if the game was totally bugless, you still have to understand that the majority of its mechanics are simulated, which precisely means that they don't obey real life economics. I don't remember any real-world industry teleporting goods from one place to another for example.

It's also real hard business if you want to test out your ideas digitally before implementing in the real world. So I guess there are many more interested parts than players, co/PDX or Steam for that matter. This is only my own thoughts.

I mean it's a simulation of a city. Think what value there is for the police and other actors to mod the game and use it in there daily work.

=> You mean exactly like real life surgeons are using the Operation game in their daily work ?


Sorry again for the sarcasm, since I don't want to be unnecessarily rude. It's nice to have hope, to think that the game will not be abandoned. I personnally have no opinion on that, like who knows, in the end it's CO/PDX decision and I've no crystal ball. But really, it's a good thing that you and other people are more optimistic. So please understand that I have no problem at all with you or anybody keeping that hope, after all we collectively and desperately need some of it.

But, realistically, CS is just a video game. And a bad one. The police or any other real world agency has absolutely no need for it. They already have more precise and useful dedicated softwares, with a lot less bugs in it.

 

[Arararamba]

Sorry, but no.

Judging by average player reactions, the simulation is not even realistic enough for people to actually see consequences of their in-game actions. A lot of things in the simulation have been repeatedly pointed out as "too difficult to understand" or even "too much magic". Also, even if the game was totally bugless, you still have to understand that the majority of its mechanics are simulated, which precisely means that they don't obey real life economics. I don't remember any real-world industry teleporting goods from one place to another for example.





=> You mean exactly like real life surgeons are using the Operation game in their daily work ?


Sorry again for the sarcasm, since I don't want to be unnecessarily rude. It's nice to have hope, to think that the game will not be abandoned. I personnally have no opinion on that, like who knows, in the end it's CO/PDX decision and I've no crystal ball. But really, it's a good thing that you and other people are more optimistic. So please understand that I have no problem at all with you or anybody keeping that hope, after all we collectively and desperately need some of it.

But, realistically, CS is just a video game. And a bad one. The police or any other real world agency has absolutely no need for it. They already have more precise and useful dedicated softwares, with a lot less bugs in it.

Well just before posting that, I saw a ted talk with a chick from CO talking about cs1 and that there are thous that use the game to test out there ideas.

So the question is this. Is there some theory that would explain all this mess? If we where important for them income wise then they would act accordingly. They would do this game adapting it it us and our machines. They haven't. They would communicate with us and this aspect would be one fundamental part of there business. They don't care about us and are secretive. Why would they keep on going and be late with everything. They haven't have success with anything. It's two years and they go in to there studio, work, release some half assed patch/doc, go on vacation. All this while there is a tsunami of criticism to put it mildly. Bridge dlc wasn't good enough. Yeah let's delay it and don't get revenue right now from it.

I mean give me a good theory on what's going on. I like this game but the bugs are terrible. Yes I want them to fix thous like you and all the rest. But it's not longer about this game right. We have unusual situation with all the things that happend with this project and we all have became obsessed with a explanation for this mess.

 

[Lys91]

Well just before posting that, I saw a ted talk with a chick from CO talking about cs1 and that there are thous that use the game to test out there ideas.

So the question is this. Is there some theory that would explain all this mess?

No, that "chick" is the lead designer of all their games before CS2. She left the studio in the very early development of CS2 (some other senior people seem to have left in a similar timeframe). If I had to guess, there were some internal disagreements, but we will never know. She is now working on an undisclosed "simulation game" in a new company.

 

[Ashreon]

Same in France and probably any country with consumer laws.

Mmm, in many countries even in Europe it's a bit precarious whether consumer laws applies to software or not.
It didn't apply to software in Denmark until late 2023 in which the parliament voted to extend consumer protection laws to also include software. So, I can't say it's valid in every European country, but I know there's a few where it is.

At this point I would honestly just.. Shelf the game. I did. No point in wasting time on it, it's not going to get any better. It would have in the past two years and now we're here and I mean.. It's only marginally improved. If you ask me anyway. Pretty sure a lot of people are of the same mind.

 

[BoraBora]

Mmm, in many countries even in Europe it's a bit precarious whether consumer laws applies to software or not.

I have an answer for you but unfortunately I can't share it here as I've been warned by the moderation on another thread:

It should be noted that the view of forum management is that any legal discussion is viewed as Off Topic in the game subforums.

 

[Lys91]

I have an answer for you but unfortunately I can't share it here as I've been warned by the moderation on another thread:

Maybe we were being pointed to the off topic forum? https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forums/ot-forum.12/

 

[RodrigoMileski]

This post is a great example of the 5 stages of grief ... I believe the general mood is now between bargaining and depression ... love it.