Where Is Every one??

[Zinegata]

It is called "The land with double the playerbase of steel division".

Doubling a practically zero playerbase is the equivalent of multiplying by zero, so in effect you're bragging about a dead game too.

Not to mention the only people who ever use this line of reasoning are the Wargame Reddit people, who apparently suck so badly at Wargame that both 4Chan and SA's wargame players easily run circles around them. Probably has something to do with the fact that players from those two other forums actually play the game while the Redditors are largely just reduced to meme-ry and bad posting.

 

[Zinegata]

Thats the problem with all U*Gen games i played since 2010 starting with Ruse and WArgame until SD44 now,they raised their community on lobbys and imo the best shinyest pro produced MatchMaker wouldnt go well as long as there are lobbys.

The bigger problem is none of them ever had a concurrent playerbase large enough to actually ever warrant a matchmaker. A matchmaker can only create matches if there are enough available players to begin with. In practice even at the peak of concurrency numbers any of these games probably had less than 100 players in the lobby - as everyone else was in the middle of an existing game.

 

[Protosszocker]

The bigger problem is none of them ever had a concurrent playerbase large enough to actually ever warrant a matchmaker. A matchmaker can only create matches if there are enough available players to begin with. In practice even at the peak of concurrency numbers any of these games probably had less than 100 players in the lobby - as everyone else was in the middle of an existing game.

Yeah I think you would need like 5k- 7k on peak hours to provite working matchmaking in 1v1 with matching against nearly same mmr players and at least team vs team matching (doesnt even need to be super balanced) in 4v4, the inbetween would be a mix. But yeah all eugen games are a bit far away from this.

I mean I think the dlc will boost the player numbers up to 1-1.5 k if we are super lucky 2k but even this would not be enough and if the coop modus is really good a lot of those players will play coop instead of team games. (just as a slight reminder SC2 coop has more played hours than all the MP modi of sc2 together)

 

[TorgoW]

The bigger problem is none of them ever had a concurrent playerbase large enough to actually ever warrant a matchmaker. A matchmaker can only create matches if there are enough available players to begin with. In practice even at the peak of concurrency numbers any of these games probably had less than 100 players in the lobby - as everyone else was in the middle of an existing game.

A good way to work with low numbers is to set matchmaking times. Like every half hour, every 15 minutes, whatever. So players make themselves available to the MM a few minutes before the half-hour, the CPU does its little algorithms, and presto - here are the matches.

 

[Leenday]

A good way to work with low numbers is to set matchmaking times. Like every half hour, every 15 minutes, whatever. So players make themselves available to the MM a few minutes before the half-hour, the CPU does its little algorithms, and presto - here are the matches.

Actually smart and simple. This way custom lobbies and MM will live side by side and won't mess with each other.

 

[morpher]

Doubling a practically zero playerbase is the equivalent of multiplying by zero, so in effect you're bragging about a dead game too.

You see, I would expect the new game to have at least double the player base of the old game (35K vs 16K active in 2 weeks), even if both are dead. But it is otherwise. Don't you think it is a sign of design problems?

Not to mention the only people who ever use this line of reasoning are the Wargame Reddit people, who apparently suck so badly at Wargame that both 4Chan and SA's wargame players easily run circles around them. Probably has something to do with the fact that players from those two other forums actually play the game while the Redditors are largely just reduced to meme-ry and bad posting.

That was before my time. Do you mean the 10v10 games? Because 10vs10 is not exactly a skill based mode.

 

[Hidden Gunman]

The bigger problem is none of them ever had a concurrent playerbase large enough to actually ever warrant a matchmaker. A matchmaker can only create matches if there are enough available players to begin with. In practice even at the peak of concurrency numbers any of these games probably had less than 100 players in the lobby - as everyone else was in the middle of an existing game.

Both games are niche, but a lot of folk don't want to accept that decent matchmaking systems require large numbers of players to work effectively. You can't match players of similar skill levels unless there are enough players of similar skill levels, but people don't see that...although, that said, there have been top level players who don't want that, as they'd rather maintain their ranking by beating up on lower level players (that's gaming, though).

 

[RoyalColor]

Both games are niche, but a lot of folk don't want to accept that decent matchmaking systems require large numbers of players to work effectively.

Dunno, I'm not an expert by any means, but Tooth and Tail has avg 90 players daily and they use Automatch only - no problem finding games.

Granted, game is 1v1 only with rounds rarely lasting longer than 10 mins, but still.

EDIT: No one moans there bout ded game...

 

[xXSunSlayerXx]

You see, I would expect the new game to have at least double the player base of the old game (35K vs 16K active in 2 weeks), even if both are dead. But it is otherwise. Don't you think it is a sign of design problems?

It's a sign of making a new game, not suited for your existing audience, without attempting to find a new audience either.

 

[nande]

Not to mention the only people who ever use this line of reasoning are the Wargame Reddit people, who apparently suck so badly at Wargame that both 4Chan and SA's wargame players easily run circles around them.

That reddit was usurped by #ANZ. Learn the history before commenting, please and thank you.

 

[Feeblezak]

lack of ability to get a 10v10 game in an under 1 hour time is why I stopped playing.

Still play skirmish and campaign. Just not multiplayer anymore.

 

[Zinegata]

That reddit was usurped by #ANZ. Learn the history before commenting, please and thank you.

And that changes the fact that it's full of people who just complain but clearly never play any actual Wargames, how? You're just being salty because it's yet more proof of how enormously irrelevant the Wargame "community" is.

Indeed, being "usurped" to the point that the community is dominated by people who don't play the game but demand attention and up-votes for posting bad memes is a perfect demonstration of the said community's utter impotence. You can't even properly thank the few people who actually help in the useful subreddits (e.g. bootcamp) without attracting drama from the meme clowns.

 

[Zinegata]

You see, I would expect the new game to have at least double the player base of the old game (35K vs 16K active in 2 weeks), even if both are dead. But it is otherwise. Don't you think it is a sign of design problems?

Double zero is still zero. Anything else is just a puny community trying to pretend it's bigger than it actually is.

Also, other players have actually laid down those design problems and they largely don't come from the meme cesspool that is the is the Wargame reddit. It's an extreme disservice to pretend that pointless memery constitutes actually pointing out real design problems. The people who post good design inputs actually play Steel Division and post either here or in the SD subreddit.

That was before my time. Do you mean the 10v10 games? Because 10vs10 is not exactly a skill based mode.

Yeah, I saw this exact excuse in the aftermath of reddit's humiliation in spite of the fact that the redditors claim they trained prior to the match while the 4chans were basically a pick-up group. It's really hilarious how you still use this excuse when that didn't fly even within the Wargame subreddit.

Again, the people who post in the Wargame subreddit largely don't play the game. That's why they lost to a 4chan pick-up group. That's why they instead have so much time to keep posting silly memes.

Stop pretending and posturing about how you're so damn good about the game (which no one cares about or believes anymore anyway), and say something actually useful for once. Posturing "But but we have double the player base!" is not useful; it's just you demonstrating you don't understand how multiplication works.

 

[Protosszocker]

Double zero is still zero. Anything else is just a puny community trying to pretend it's bigger than it actually is.

Also, other players have actually laid down those design problems and they largely don't come from the meme cesspool that is the is the Wargame reddit. It's an extreme disservice to pretend that pointless memery constitutes actually pointing out real design problems. The people who post good design inputs actually play Steel Division and post either here or in the SD subreddit.



Yeah, I saw this exact excuse in the aftermath of reddit's humiliation in spite of the fact that the redditors claim they trained prior to the match while the 4chans were basically a pick-up group. It's really hilarious how you still use this excuse when that didn't fly even within the Wargame subreddit.

Again, the people who post in the Wargame subreddit largely don't play the game. That's why they lost to a 4chan pick-up group. That's why they instead have so much time to keep posting silly memes.

Stop pretending and posturing about how you're so damn good about the game (which no one cares about or believes anymore anyway), and say something actually useful for once. Posturing "But but we have double the player base!" is not useful; it's just you demonstrating you don't understand how multiplication works.

As SD playerbase is largely taken from CoH2 and not WG we shouldnt look at the mess that is WG but at what SD failed to attract and hold coh2 players, first thing i would say is a good and interesting streamlined campaign (wasnt that bad but to short), second is the UI, third is the data information you get about your units, 4th is matchmaking. Thats the easy thing, gameplay wise the game is good, and balance wise its fine, but the surrounding is just not good enough for mainstream players.

 

[RoyalColor]

[...] first thing i would say is a good and interesting streamlined campaign (wasnt that bad but to short), second is the UI, third is the data information you get about your units, 4th is matchmaking. Thats the easy thing, gameplay wise the game is good, and balance wise its fine, but the surrounding is just not good enough for mainstream players.

All this is true, but was recently thinking about WiC in this context. WiC had everything you mentioned, was highly polished and made up to a very high standard. It died nevertheless.

I think It's just the dawn of the genre as a whole. Even if we had all the things you mentioned, or even if they'd released WG4 instead, I highly doubt we would have been in much better place.

That said, it's not an excuse! Eugen get to work and sort out our crap!

 

[Protosszocker]

All this is true, but was recently thinking about WiC in this context. WiC had everything you mentioned, was highly polished and made up to a very high standard. It died nevertheless.

I think It's just the dawn of the genre as a whole. Even if we had all the things you mentioned, or even if they'd released WG4 instead, I highly doubt we would have been in much better place.

That said, it's not an excuse! Eugen get to work and sort out our crap!

Hmm so how you would describe the grow by over 30% in player numbers in SC2 in the last year (even grown 10% fore becoming f2p)?
I just think the market has changed, you need new stuff to penetrate it, but RTS games overall are still a big field with a lot of potential players to join in.

 

[holoween]

As SD playerbase is largely taken from CoH2 and not WG we shouldnt look at the mess that is WG but at what SD failed to attract and hold coh2 players, first thing i would say is a good and interesting streamlined campaign (wasnt that bad but to short), second is the UI, third is the data information you get about your units, 4th is matchmaking. Thats the easy thing, gameplay wise the game is good, and balance wise its fine, but the surrounding is just not good enough for mainstream players.

you pretty much got it exactly the wrong way around.

the hardest part is getting gameplay down and thats the one that will attract and keep players. a campaign isnt actually necessary but it helps players to learn the game.
for ui the biggest thing steel division (and wargame) have in their favour is the camera which is straight up the best camera of all currently available rts. for the rest of the ui youd have to ask someone who actually had problems with it on what to improve. matchmaking is great as long as you actually get everyone into the same matchmaker. if everyone splits over several different ways to get mp games everyone just has a longer waiting time.

 

[morpher]

Also, other players have actually laid down those design problems and they largely don't come from the meme cesspool that is the is the Wargame reddit.

We have been asking for a decent matchmaking, a low stress game mode for noob and a clear presentation of game's mechanics for a long time. It worked right?

Yeah, I saw this exact excuse in the aftermath of reddit's humiliation in spite of the fact that the redditors claim they trained prior to the match while the 4chans were basically a pick-up group. It's really hilarious how you still use this excuse when that didn't fly even within the Wargame subreddit.

Learn history.

 

[morpher]

Hmm so how you would describe the grow by over 30% in player numbers in SC2 in the last year (even grown 10% fore becoming f2p)?

A well polished game made by a competent studio.

 

[Gilmund]

Hmm so how you would describe the grow by over 30% in player numbers in SC2 in the last year (even grown 10% fore becoming f2p)?
I just think the market has changed, you need new stuff to penetrate it, but RTS games overall are still a big field with a lot of potential players to join in.

Blizzard effect ? People coming from WoW to another Blizzard product ? Competitive play with twitch ? Blizzard marketing ? There are many reasons. SD is more about Combat Mission than Company of Heroes, being a very demanding RTS no wonder it brings less people.