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Fampa

Captain
Apr 26, 2024
355
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I mean, it can't take this long to fix this bug, can it? Every day I see people who don't know about this bug and the mod that 'fixes' it, complaining that the game is broken and giving up. Could we at least get a temporary hotfix that does the same thing the mod does until we get the definitive solution? This seams like a no brainer to me
 
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I mean, it can't take this long to fix this bug, can it? Every day I see people who don't know about this bug and the mod that 'fixes' it, complaining that the game is broken and giving up. Could we at least get a temporary hotfix that does the same thing the mod does until we get the definitive solution? This seams like a no brainer to me
It's a good question! I'd hazard a guess that it's tied up into a bunch of different systems. Various folks have conjectured that it's related to the tourism bug given that both tourists and homeless folks likely have an "expiry date" by which they should leave the city. Since it came with the economy rebalance (and we've seen the screenshots of queues of people at city border connection), I wonder if it also has something to do with the number of entities (not just cims but resources, vehicles, utilities) and their rate of spawn -> pathfinding -> simulation and how resource-intense that gets to be at scale.

On the one hand, a hotfix that duplicates what the homeless mod does would be really handy. On the other hand, baking the mod into the codebase might make things even more chaotic and hard to fix properly. In any case, whenever I get anxious or impatient I just have a look at the dates on CSII's depots in steamdb and see that the development channels are still being actively updated, so I know work continues! Fingers crossed that one of those staging or development builds move to public this week, so I can finally (and unnecessarily) obsess over getting functioning hotels up and running.

加油 and whatnot, but not too much 油 so that we don't burn the place down!
 
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It's a good question! I'd hazard a guess that it's tied up into a bunch of different systems. Various folks have conjectured that it's related to the tourism bug given that both tourists and homeless folks likely have an "expiry date" by which they should leave the city. Since it came with the economy rebalance (and we've seen the screenshots of queues of people at city border connection), I wonder if it also has something to do with the number of entities (not just cims but resources, vehicles, utilities) and their rate of spawn -> pathfinding -> simulation and how resource-intense that gets to be at scale.

On the one hand, a hotfix that duplicates what the homeless mod does would be really handy. On the other hand, baking the mod into the codebase might make things even more chaotic and hard to fix properly. In any case, whenever I get anxious or impatient I just have a look at the dates on CSII's depots in steamdb and see that the development channels are still being actively updated, so I know work continues! Fingers crossed that one of those staging or development builds move to public this week, so I can finally (and unnecessarily) obsess over getting functioning hotels up and running.

加油 and whatnot, but not too much 油 so that we don't burn the place down!
what do the depots mean? can you give me an explanation like I'm a 5yr old? lol. I'm interested on what goes on behind the scenes and would like to kinda know what I'm looking at
 
what do the depots mean? can you give me an explanation like I'm a 5yr old? lol. I'm interested on what goes on behind the scenes and would like to kinda know what I'm looking at
I should have said builds rather than depots, but in any case -- on that steamdb page under branches, there are *a ton* of different items with different Build ID's. You can think of each of those as "versions" of the game that have been created and uploaded to steam, although not necessarily publicly.

A little down from the top you can see the "public" build; that's the build that anyone would download right now from Steam if they installed the game today. Build ID's are issued sequentially by steam (I think -- please someone correct me if I'm wrong) when items are uploaded, so any of those builds listed with a higher number (or more easily to identify, newer date) are "newer" versions of the game.

Important to note here though that just because the build is "newer" doesn't mean it's better, or public. Each build gets an ID so that when they pass it to their QA folks for testing, or to Paradox devs for review, or ____ (insert use case here), they all know they're talking about the same "version" of the game when they give feedback. You can see an example of this in the list, where the "public" build has the same build ID as "pdx_test" and "modding_incoming". Of course, we don't know exactly what those names correspond to because they're not publicly available, but I'd hazard to guess that "pdx_test" is the name given to builds that are sent off to Paradox for testing, and maybe the modding one is given to select modders in advance to do a bit of troubleshooting before the build goes public.

Since "public" is listed higher in the list, we know it was released more recently than those two. However, we also know that all of the builds above "public" have been uploaded to steam for whatever purpose even more recently, which is a good indicator that (even if not necessarily soon), the Colossal Order devs have the game in some kind of modified state that they're sending out to others for various reasons.

co_test is probably their in-house version, and qloc_main is (I'm guessing) a version that they share with their QA and Localization people. I do see that their "development" and "staging" builds have newer build ID's but are "older" / updated longer ago, which I assume means that the "development" and "staging" builds are the "actively being worked on" builds. I feel good assuming this because even if they do have a build that's getting QC'ed presently, they'd still be plugging away at updating the game. The "last updated" time for "development" will probably update at the end of the week or so different as devs merge all of their work, but again -- I don't know for sure.

Here's hoping that this is a 5-year-old friendly explanation! I work with devs (not CO), but I am not myself a dev, so I'm only familiar with all this in passing.
 
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I should have said builds rather than depots, but in any case -- on that steamdb page under branches, there are *a ton* of different items with different Build ID's. You can think of each of those as "versions" of the game that have been created and uploaded to steam, although not necessarily publicly.

A little down from the top you can see the "public" build; that's the build that anyone would download right now from Steam if they installed the game today. Build ID's are issued sequentially by steam (I think -- please someone correct me if I'm wrong) when items are uploaded, so any of those builds listed with a higher number (or more easily to identify, newer date) are "newer" versions of the game.

Important to note here though that just because the build is "newer" doesn't mean it's better, or public. Each build gets an ID so that when they pass it to their QA folks for testing, or to Paradox devs for review, or ____ (insert use case here), they all know they're talking about the same "version" of the game when they give feedback. You can see an example of this in the list, where the "public" build has the same build ID as "pdx_test" and "modding_incoming". Of course, we don't know exactly what those names correspond to because they're not publicly available, but I'd hazard to guess that "pdx_test" is the name given to builds that are sent off to Paradox for testing, and maybe the modding one is given to select modders in advance to do a bit of troubleshooting before the build goes public.

Since "public" is listed higher in the list, we know it was released more recently than those two. However, we also know that all of the builds above "public" have been uploaded to steam for whatever purpose even more recently, which is a good indicator that (even if not necessarily soon), the Colossal Order devs have the game in some kind of modified state that they're sending out to others for various reasons.

co_test is probably their in-house version, and qloc_main is (I'm guessing) a version that they share with their QA and Localization people. I do see that their "development" and "staging" builds have newer build ID's but are "older" / updated longer ago, which I assume means that the "development" and "staging" builds are the "actively being worked on" builds. I feel good assuming this because even if they do have a build that's getting QC'ed presently, they'd still be plugging away at updating the game. The "last updated" time for "development" will probably update at the end of the week or so different as devs merge all of their work, but again -- I don't know for sure.

Here's hoping that this is a 5-year-old friendly explanation! I work with devs (not CO), but I am not myself a dev, so I'm only familiar with all this in passing.
I didnt expect that much, but thank you for the insight, and I understood it all!
 
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I mean, it can't take this long to fix this bug, can it? Every day I see people who don't know about this bug and the mod that 'fixes' it, complaining that the game is broken and giving up. Could we at least get a temporary hotfix that does the same thing the mod does until we get the definitive solution? This seams like a no brainer to me
Of course it can’t, but CO has decided they don’t care or what to communicate anything to their customers. Instead they want to ignore things and only release things when they are ready to sell us some more palm trees.

If they had any care for their customers and wanted to repair the trust with us they’d actually participate in the forums and post something, to give us a shred of hope that they give a damn.
 
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There's no way to temporally fix it using developer mode? This fix is so much needed already, homeless bug is affecting game performance in many ways.
 
Of course it can’t, but CO has decided they don’t care or what to communicate anything to their customers. Instead they want to ignore things and only release things when they are ready to sell us some more palm trees.

If they had any care for their customers and wanted to repair the trust with us they’d actually participate in the forums and post something, to give us a shred of hope that they give a damn.

Spot on. The complete radio silence is extremely concerning and frustrating.
 
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We're working on a fix for this issue, but I'm afraid I don't have an ETA for when it will be available. We'll let you know when there's an update on this.
 
They were so stupidly confident they could bring any patch during the workweek that they delayed the eco patch from Friday to Monday. Genius. And yet, the patch everyone’s been waiting for still hasn’t arrived after a month or two.
 
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We're working on a fix for this issue, but I'm afraid I don't have an ETA for when it will be available. We'll let you know when there's an update on this.
Thank you for the response.
Just in case you are not aware this problem gets much worse and creates new issues as the city gets very old and very big. My city of 45 years was once at 3 million pop as has slowly declined since the homeless took over. Constant 28k death rate, hospitals once unused are now full, pop declined over one million and the age demographic is now over 50% seniors. I play totally vanilla not even dev mode. The transition since Eco 2.0 has been very interesting to say the least!
 
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Thank you for the response.
Just in case you are not aware this problem gets much worse and creates new issues as the city gets very old and very big. My city of 45 years was once at 3 million pop as has slowly declined since the homeless took over. Constant 28k death rate, hospitals once unused are now full, pop declined over one million and the age demographic is now over 50% seniors. I play totally vanilla not even dev mode. The transition since Eco 2.0 has been very interesting to say the least!
3 million?! I'm lurching at 300k with an i7 32gB and a 3070. Mind you, I'm enjoying the process and the only city I hit that with was one I did on unlimited money and painted an enormous city layout then slowly zoned in and grew until it slowed to a crawl.
 
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Regardless of your setup, the game is unplayable beyond about 250k due to the simulation slowing to a crawl. At that point it just becomes a laggy city painter. Unless you consider "playing" leaving the game running 24/7 unattended
 
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Regardless of your setup, the game is unplayable beyond about 250k due to the simulation slowing to a crawl. At that point it just becomes a laggy city painter. Unless you consider "playing" leaving the game running 24/7 unattended
It does depend on your rig. My 350k population shows no slowing down at all at normal, two times and four times speed. The FPS is pinned at 60. Another city of nearly a million runs totally normal at normal speed with 60 FPS.
 
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Please post your specs and a video of your simulation at nearly a million with no slowdown. I find that pretty hard to believe.

I have an 13900KF (overclocked), 64gb RAM, an a 4070TI and even though my FPS isn't horrible at max settings, the simulation is ass.

Even people with threadrippers havent been able to run a simulation at full speed beyond 250k.
 
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Here's a screen shot showing 60 fps and each game minute takes 3.04 seconds real time as it always does.

20240821202529_1.jpg
 
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