Will Venice be an island?

[Brynjar]

Why? Are province modifiers in EU4 like Center of Trade or river estuaries or the Dalaskogen mine a major issue because you cannot see them on the map? Why can there not be a modifier called "Island of Venice"?

Because it is a modifier you need to know about when moving armies, just like rivers, forts etc. If key information is not going to be communicated through the map, why have a map at all?

Rivers being visible or not does not affect the layout of continents. Venice being an unrealistic huge island does affect it.

So you don't care about accurate maps at all then. To you it is just a preference for the outline of continents specifically?

 

[Stami]

So you don't care about accurate maps at all then. To you it is just a preference for the outline of continents specifically?

I can nitpick as well if you want. Maybe you don't like visible cities then because it is not accurate. Your arguments are going nowhere.

I stated very clearly that I prefer an accurate map, with proper depiction of landmasses, where the tiny island of Venice does not occupy half the gulf it is in. This is my opinion, and you will not sway me with your opinion, and I don't expect the opposite to happen either. Doesn't really matter to me, because the map is to my liking so I have no complaints.

Also, rivers can be toggled on or off, so if you don't like it just go to settings. I can't toggle off that giant island though.

 

[Brynjar]

I can nitpick as well if you want. Maybe you don't like visible cities then because it is not accurate. Your arguments are going nowhere.

What are you on about? I haven't used accuracy as an argument at all. You have. Nor have I said anything about my preferences for visibility of cities.

I stated very clearly that I prefer an accurate map, with proper depiction of landmasses, where the tiny island of Venice does not occupy half the gulf it is in.

You won't get an accurate map. You will get a map where the developers have chosen to medel some landmasses and not others . Also, is removing landmasses to display rivers ok? In reality that is what will be done if rivers like the Danube is visible on the map.

Also, rivers can be toggled on or off, so if you don't like it just go to settings. I can't toggle off that giant island though.

Well, there isn't much point toggling off something which isn't there in the first place. Not being able to toggle it on is a much bigger problem. If rivers have a gameplay impact, they should be visible in any mapmode a player can be used for gameplay where they have a gameplay impact. Anything else will be a UX disaster.

Also, having a toggle doesn't make the map any more accurate. Having islands and rivers too big or not at all are both inaccurate.

 

[SAmaster]

I think on the map visually, instead of just the landmass, whole Lagoon could be a clickable province perhaps. That way it would be both convenient to click and realistic on the map. It's even more historically accurate since Venice was not just the main 6 districts but whole of the lagoon. Mechanically it could just be an island with a strait under the hood.

This can also be applied to similar geographic locations.

That sounds like a good compromise to me.

 

[pheonicia]

I am not sure how feasible this is, but perhaps there could be a "coastal island" terrain type or something that represents a location's urban centre being a small island somewhat offshore that cannot be conquered without naval control of the adjacent sea tile? In addition to Venice, this could also be useful for Macao. Perhaps there are other examples.

Alexander conquered tyre without naval control of the nearby sea tile. Costly in both gold and blood, but not impossible. With cannons one could build an encroaching series of fortifications, driving off any ships and bombarding the city into rubble. Years of work certainly, but anyone wealthy enough and with sufficient motivation could manage.

 

[Linbot#6018]

Alexander conquered tyre without naval control of the nearby sea tile. Costly in both gold and blood, but not impossible. With cannons one could build an encroaching series of fortifications, driving off any ships and bombarding the city into rubble. Years of work certainly, but anyone wealthy enough and with sufficient motivation could manage.

This is true, but the effort required to do something like that should still be represented.

 

[pheonicia]

This is true, but the effort required to do something like that should still be represented.

Of course, I'd put it on the level of a great project in eu4 terms, and honestly, the great siege of Venice has a pretty nice ring to it.

 

[LeandroB]

View attachment 1101791
I've noticed that the map shared in TT2 is missing a key feature from past EU instalments - the massive island of Venice. What are the gameplay implications of this?

Well...

 

[honkajoki]

it will look really "unhistorical" on the map though, with a huge island

In EU4 it's already hard enough to select some islands, eg Malta, especially when there's an army stationed there or a fleet in the harbor. In Project Caesar, there should be some sort of bubble on the map around small islands, to make it easier to click and select the location. Perhaps visible, perhaps not if the island itself is large enough to see, even when not large enough to click. If there are small inland locations, the first that comes to mind is Vatican, then a bubble may not be good. Perhaps a box with the location's name in a nearby large location, whether sea or land, and a line pointing to the actual place of the first location. To access the location, click on the box instead of it's actual place.

EDIT: grammar

 

[William the Merry]

Why? Are province modifiers in EU4 like Center of Trade or river estuaries or the Dalaskogen mine a major issue because you cannot see them on the map? Why can there not be a modifier called "Island of Venice"?

Rivers being visible or not does not affect the layout of continents. Venice being an unrealistic huge island does affect it.

Do you see "island of venice" being a modifier where if you dont have 100% embargo you cant enter the province?

 

[Stami]

Do you see "island of venice" being a modifier where if you dont have 100% embargo you cant enter the province?

I have no idea how it works in Project Caesar so I find it a bit useless to use EU4 terms in this case.

All I have to say is I have faith in how they decided to represent it. And as you can see, Johan agrees on the island's importance.

Yes, I agree.

it will look really "unhistorical" on the map though, with a huge island

 

[Linbot#6018]

Do you see "island of venice" being a modifier where if you dont have 100% embargo you cant enter the province?

The way I would have it is that you can't get siege progress unless it's blockaded. Though actually coastal forts should work like this in general.

 

[William the Merry]

I have no idea how it works in Project Caesar so I find it a bit useless to use EU4 terms in this case.

All I have to say is I have faith in how they decided to represent it. And as you can see, Johan agrees on the island's importance.

Sieging isnt eu4 terms, its paradox terms as every game bar vic3 has on map moving armies

The way I would have it is that you can't get siege progress unless it's blockaded. Though actually coastal forts should work like this in general.

Why? Coastal forts can still be taken by storm or if supplies not forthcoming, or bribed commanders

 

[Linbot#6018]

Sieging isnt eu4 terms, its paradox terms as every game bar vic3 has on map moving armies

Why? Coastal forts can still be taken by storm or if supplies not forthcoming, or bribed commanders

While this is true, a defender with naval control should still get significant advantages. So great job completely missing my point.

 

[William the Merry]

While this is true, a defender with naval control should still get significant advantages. So great job completely missing my point.

What was your point? If not you need blockade to siege down a coastal fort

 

[Brynjar]

All I have to say is I have faith in how they decided to represent it. And as you can see, Johan agrees on the island's importance.

The problem here isn't that Johan thinks the city of Venice's location on an Island isn't important, but that the developers seemingly are prioritising a consistent map when it comes to scale of Islands over a functional map. That is similar to the UI/UX mistakes we have seen over and over again in Imperator, CK 3 and Vic 3.

One of the points of these forums existing is to provide feedback before it is too late to change things. "Let's wait and see" seems like a rather bad idea.

 

[Lehnaru]

Of course, I'd put it on the level of a great project in eu4 terms, and honestly, the great siege of Venice has a pretty nice ring to it.

Especially for Byzantium

 

[Arizal]

I am not sure how feasible this is, but perhaps there could be a "coastal island" terrain type or something that represents a location's urban centre being a small island somewhat offshore that cannot be conquered without naval control of the adjacent sea tile? In addition to Venice, this could also be useful for Macao. Perhaps there are other examples.

This seems to be a very good idea, and potentially rather easy to implement.

In EU4 it's already hard enough to select some islands, eg Malta, especially when there's an army stationed there or a fleet in the harbor. In Project Caesar, there should be some sort of bubble on the map around small islands, to make it easier to click and select the location. Perhaps visible, perhaps not if the island itself is large enough to see, even when not large enough to click. If there are small inland locations, the first that comes to mind is Vatican, then a bubble may not be good. Perhaps a box with the location's name in a nearby large location, whether sea or land, and a line pointing to the actual place of the first location. To access the location, click on the box instead of it's actual place.

EDIT: grammar

If there are really small locations, I think this could be handy. Maybe the bubbles only happen when you are close to the location or have selected it through a search option or a link from an event, so that it doesn't clutter the screen.

 

[Thomaszemmi]

Venice in 1470 also had more state revenue than Kingdom of France, which is many times its size. Sure Venice is small, but it is an eminently important city in this era, from finances to trade to printing to development of military technology especially ships, armor and artillery. A 1337 start would be ideal for playing Venice in its heyday and for many real and alternate history scenarios.

Leaving Venice vulnerable to just being occupied from Italian mainland when it was almost impossible to invade and occupy this city would be a huge missed opportunity, any country not able to blockade the lagoon should not be able to occupy city of Venice.

Do we already have a clue how merchants republics are represented ingame? And what mechanics they have?

 

[Johan]

The problem here isn't that Johan thinks the city of Venice's location on an Island isn't important, but that the developers seemingly are prioritising a consistent map when it comes to scale of Islands over a functional map. That is similar to the UI/UX mistakes we have seen over and over again in Imperator, CK 3 and Vic 3.

One of the points of these forums existing is to provide feedback before it is too late to change things. "Let's wait and see" seems like a rather bad idea.

There are plenty of islands so far that has been exagerrated in size to fit, but they were already about 50 to 100 times as big as Venice island, so in this case it would be a dramatic change from real life to the game.