WW LXXX: Harry Potter and the Game of Werewolf

[TheArchMede]

Does anyone else think there were too many cursed players in that setup? One or two baddies over par, plus 2 or 3 curses over par, plus the second in command is a lot to balance against the second seer.

I am annoyed about the GM using different scanning rules to those he posted. It misled me about how many packs there could be. If it had been stated accurately, it would have been clear there was only one pack in time for me to actually analyse that situation seriously. The cultist role as advertised just did not make sense in a one-pack set up.

 

[GeneralHannibal]

GH was a hunter

EDIT: He was a villager?

EDIT 2: Wow, I didn't even look. Oh well, he was blessed, so thanks to his claim of being a hunter we didn't hunt him.

Hahahahaha. Never trusted you. And you didn't get in contact with me. You contacted me saying "So you're a hunter?" and from then on I was generally skeptical of you. Then, I went on a Model UN trip. I actually was "just curious" about the hunter thing, but when you PMed me I basically assumed you were a baddie - or at least there was a high chance of it. And that's what assumptions get you...

Want to explain what's going on? Out of all the people to believe as a JL Spokesperson, you're the person I'd trust the least. So A) Why are you the spokesperson? and B) What the fuck is going on.

I am willing to work with you. But I will not take orders. I will set a hunt order on myself before I do what you say on the sole basis that you're saying it. But first, I'd hunt you before doing that.

So. Care to explain what's going on?

-Hermione

P.S. Meanwhile I'll switch my vote from Marty to Yakman.

No, I don't care to explain.

Your tone, I don't like it.

Goodbye.

 

[OrangeYoshi]

Hahahahaha. Never trusted you. And you didn't get in contact with me. You contacted me saying "So you're a hunter?" and from then on I was generally skeptical of you. Then, I went on a Model UN trip. I actually was "just curious" about the hunter thing, but when you PMed me I basically assumed you were a baddie - or at least there was a high chance of it. And that's what assumptions get you...

LOL, yes, he doesn't like it when the people he's giving orders to stand up for themselves. :rofl:

 

[Yakman]

Werewolf LXXXI: Doom of the WereYak, Part III: Younghusband, 1904​

It is the height of British India. Afghanistan is subdued, the Mutiny long forgotten, and the threat of a Cossack invasion a fuzzy abstraction.

However, not all is well in the Emperor's Crown Jewel. To the north, the forbidding mountains of the Himalaya hide the secret capital of Lhasa, in which no European has ever set foot. Rumblings amongst the hill people and the Nepalese hint that Tibet's Immortal Lamas have begun to conspire with secret Geomantric societies in the decaying Chi'ing Empire. Should the magical might of these two powers combine, it might rejuvenate the Asiatic peoples and enable the overthrow of not only the British Empire, but of Western civilization itself.

King Edward VII has personally ordered Lt. Colonel Younghusband, an explorer who has the best knowledge of any white man of the cyclopean massifs, to lead an expedition to Lhasa to overthrow the necrotic rule of the Lamas and end the Arcane conspiracy.

An army is assembled from across India: sikhs, pathans, rajputs, marathas, and ghurkas. Supplementing them are the finest European soldiers in the Indian Army, and, of course, the omnipresent sherpas.

The expedition sets out in December 1903, and in the heavy snows, a small advance unit becomes separated from the main force. Entering an edenic valley, the soldiers and their sherpas are enchanted by the apparently unspoiled paradise amidst the great mountains. But, alas... they have entered one of the eternally damned seclusions of the murderous WEREYAK!

 

[EUROO7]

LOL, yes, he doesn't like it when the people he's giving orders to stand up for themselves. :rofl:

I just kill them.

 

[unmerged(180651)]

Does anyone else think there were too many cursed players in that setup?

Yes. The cursed trait gets more powerful the more there are, while the blessed trait doesn't really.

 

[TheArchMede]

I hope this cultist rule is never used again. Telling the goodies they are one thing when they are actually something else is not right.

 

[Yakman]

I hope this cultist rule is never used again. Telling the goodies they are one thing when they are actually something else is not right.

what's wrong with this cultist rule? it just makes the cultists less powerful and gives the wolves a good deal of reason to worry about communicating with their supposed cultists and harder for them to coordinate with them.

 

[OrangeYoshi]

what's wrong with this cultist rule? it just makes the cultists less powerful and gives the wolves a good deal of reason to worry about communicating with their supposed cultists and harder for them to coordinate with them.

I think the rule he is talking about isn't one stated in the rule list.

 

[TheArchMede]

what's wrong with this cultist rule? it just makes the cultists less powerful and gives the wolves a good deal of reason to worry about communicating with their supposed cultists and harder for them to coordinate with them.

The rule the GM used is different from the one he posted. That is what is wrong. He told the goodies that the cultists were less powerful than they actually were. Not only does this mess with analysis, it means any goodie trying to impersonate a cultist will give themselves away because they only know the goodie version of the role. Either the rule he used, or the one he posted is reasonable. Using one and posting another is not.

 

[Yakman]

The rule the GM used is different from the one he posted. That is what is wrong. He told the goodies that the cultists were less powerful than they actually were. Not only does this mess with analysis, it means any goodie trying to impersonate a cultist will give themselves away because they only know the goodie version of the role. Either the rule he used, or the one he posted is reasonable. Using one and posting another is not.

well, that's clearly a much larger problem than what is written up as a cultist rule--which, if anything, is probably how cultists should be run.

rules should be clear from the outset, and described roles be what they are.

 

[Yakman]

The rule the GM used is different from the one he posted. That is what is wrong. He told the goodies that the cultists were less powerful than they actually were. Not only does this mess with analysis, it means any goodie trying to impersonate a cultist will give themselves away because they only know the goodie version of the role. Either the rule he used, or the one he posted is reasonable. Using one and posting another is not.

well, that's clearly a much larger problem than what is written up as a cultist rule--which, if anything, is probably how cultists should be run.

rules should be clear from the outset, and described roles be what they are.

 

[jerard]

My scan list was
jerard (backup Paendrag) - because jerard wanted to give me a prize...
Kriszo (backup Xeno) - because of the comment on breaking a tie 12+ hours before deadline
AVN (backup Nautilu) - because I was already PMing him and wanted him rather than jerard to do the outing of Kriszo

List of likely goodies at the time of my death:
trespoe, Cymsdale, Xarkan, Jopi, Jester, oky, Nautilu (from the randakar lynch)
OY, TAM (from votes on/by the_hdk)
Ciry, THE_SPLIT, EURO, OY again (from votes on/by randakar)

If you had contacted me we could have outed Kriszo a day earlier. I have not been true JL yet and would have loved the opportunity. It seems to me there is a bit of meta in who the scanners decide to let into the JL as it seems the more veteran players are chosen. I understand that everyone knows how the more veteran players will handle the intracacies of being JL and are seen as more reliable. It would be nice, though, if some of the newer players could get some experience with it without having to land a scanner role.
What did I do by the time of your death to make me not be a 'likely goodie'?

 

[TheArchMede]

If you had contacted me we could have outed Kriszo a day earlier. I have not been true JL yet and would have loved the opportunity. It seems to me there is a bit of meta in who the scanners decide to let into the JL as it seems the more veteran players are chosen. I understand that everyone knows how the more veteran players will handle the intracacies of being JL and are seen as more reliable. It would be nice, though, if some of the newer players could get some experience with it without having to land a scanner role.
What did I do by the time of your death to make me not be a 'likely goodie'?

The randakar lynching meant you were not a packmate. He was lynched in a close race with you, when it was you that had identified him as a likely wolf. However, until it was clear the baddies were either cooperating or there was just one pack you could easily have been a baddie in a different faction. At the time I had that race as between two baddies from different packs and I expect johho did too.

A bit of meta understates it. The one (and only) time I was a seer all the recommendations I was getting from my JL for scans had a heavy meta component. It is because scans provide partial information, and knowledge of that person's style gives a better chance of selecting the right person to risk contacting.

Waiting also allows the seer to better conceal his identity on the first contact. An early contact means it pretty much has to be the seer (or someone pretending to be the seer), a later contact gives the possibility of disguising the first contact as from someone else in a JL rather than the seer.

 

[johho888]

If you had contacted me we could have outed Kriszo a day earlier. I have not been true JL yet and would have loved the opportunity. It seems to me there is a bit of meta in who the scanners decide to let into the JL as it seems the more veteran players are chosen. I understand that everyone knows how the more veteran players will handle the intracacies of being JL and are seen as more reliable. It would be nice, though, if some of the newer players could get some experience with it without having to land a scanner role.

What!? Are you implying that the justice in the Justice Leaugue isn't blind to player background?

Whatever gave you that idea. ​

Seriously though and to answer your question. Yes, I could have contacted you on day 2 to out Kriszo but if you recall it, day 2 was the chaotic day when Xeno and the_hdk were accusing eachother. Partly I didn't think another outing that day would get through and partly I was afraid a straight outing would just get all the scanning baddies to connect through the outed sorcerer so I decided to wait a day and go through with a more indirect outing. In hindsight maybe I should have looked for another baddie instead of clearing AVN on the following night.

As a scanner I like to have a JL spokesperson that is around the forum a lot, not just logged in once a day. I have even made first day scans on people that posted a lot in the pregame phase because I thought "if they aren't a baddie they will make a good spokesperson" and I have picked newbies for it too as long as they seemed committed.

I normally wouldn't hesitate to use someone like you for a spokesperson but I was starting to have trouble not revealing my information in my PM discussions with AVN and GeneralHannibal so I opted go for one of them to ease my burden of having to keep up fake PM facades.

What did I do by the time of your death to make me not be a 'likely goodie'?

Oh, you were on my mental list of likely goodies for most of the game (based on your behaviour in the thread). I must have missed what TAM pointed out about your role in the radanakar vote since you weren't on my written list.

Like TAM, I also started out thinking two packs was the most likely setup but round about when I died I had started leaning towards there being only one pack and that is when I wrote the list based on the vote records.

 

[johho888]

Looking back at the game and reading the post game comments there are a few things I'd like to comment on reagarding the setup.

Looks like there were five wolves, two sorcs, four cultists. That's...11 baddies out of 38 players. Probably 1-2 too many for a one-pack setup?

I'd go for 25% baddies in a one pack setup so 10 would be OK, 11 isn't that different so it should tip the balance. I really don't think one baddie pack should have more than one scanner though especially not when they are the only pack.

I also think having two seers was a bad idea. If we had both stayed alive a little longer, managed to hook up through someone we could have had the village scanned in a very short time. If you want to give the village a hand let the seer start with an apprentice.

This game is all about uncertainty and being able to judge other people. If you add too many scanners too much information will be available and people will stop to think for themselves. Now this didn't quite happen here but it could easily been the case.

Does anyone else think there were too many cursed players in that setup? One or two baddies over par, plus 2 or 3 curses over par, plus the second in command is a lot to balance against the second seer.

4 cursed and 5 blessed. That is a not so unusal, I usually have around 3 cursed and 1 blessed in a game this size. With a one pack setup I think upping the number of blessed was a good strategy by the GM to balance things.

What was not so good was the prize trait being cursed/blessed so the players could figure out they were one or the other. I also think if we are to have prize traits there should be only one winner, four is definitely too much.

I am annoyed about the GM using different scanning rules to those he posted. It misled me about how many packs there could be. If it had been stated accurately, it would have been clear there was only one pack in time for me to actually analyse that situation seriously. The cultist role as advertised just did not make sense in a one-pack set up.

I agree. The GM has to use the rule he has set down! (even if he in midgame notice they were full of loopholes or weren't as he intended)

About the one pack setup: These games are good to have every once and a while so we don't take for granted there is always 2 packs but they tend to often end up in a slaughter of one side once either the baddies or the village get the upper hand halfway through the game.

Another GM issue is why did two wolves get subbed while two villagers got autolynched at about the same time? If that was random dice throwing I'm OK with it, if it was the GM trying to keep alive the most important roles I think that is wrong.

But all in all a solid GM performance, Raczynski. You are getting better at this. Thanks for hosting!