• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
What I've experienced so far is that specialized worlds work fine, and after a certain number of worlds (so that individual fluctuations are less significant) hybrid worlds work better than they used to. But the output of planets is wildly variable when they're hybridized, and the controls over that are very micro-intensive. I can solve the problem by closing the jobs, but I have to wait for the jobs to be opened so it adds an additional time I have to check planets after each district completes to fix it.

The improvements for hybrid planets are not trivial, and the system overall (with all unique buildings) is also much better to me for specialized ones. But if I only need more of one output from a hybrid planet I'm forced into drastically more micro to prevent economic issues.

I think that's the point though no? If you want to increase alloys and alloys only then you use a specialised planet. I definitely get that there's less granularity so if most of your planets are maxed developed and you need to boost a hybrid it's not ideal. But so far I've not found that's the worst problem in the world. Though it is tricky because the balance isn't in so in the early game when there's just a few planet it can be tough.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I think that's the point though no? If you want to increase alloys and alloys only then you use a specialised planet. I definitely get that there's less granularity so if most of your planets are maxed developed and you need to boost a hybrid it's not ideal. But so far I've not found that's the worst problem in the world. Though it is tricky because the balance isn't in so in the early game when there's just a few planet it can be tough.
It creates a massive problem if you don't have enough planets to so specialize.

This happens:
1. On some settings at all times
2. On all settings at the start
3. With some origins for a long time
4. With Virtuality mandatorily

It being harder to manage isn't the point. The point is to allow planets to hybridize effectively. It removing much of your control over hybridization is not only not the point, it undermines the point. It's a downside of the current design that they should circumvent.
 
  • 4
  • 1
Reactions:
Maybe read my comment, not just look at the pictures?
Research Zone: provides + X and + Y * (CityDistricts) = Z amount of research jobs. Example: 180 + 20 * (10 districts) = 380 researchers
Ok. When zones add jobs based on cities, +10% jobs on a building is the same as the building adding new jobs per cities. So, +X per city would be the same thing, just a flat number rather than a precent. That's the only difference between what you suggested and what I was rambling about. Assuming we are only talking about this one piece of information of course.
 
It creates a massive problem if you don't have enough planets to so specialize.

This happens:
1. On some settings at all times
2. On all settings at the start
3. With some origins for a long time
4. With Virtuality mandatorily

It being harder to manage isn't the point. The point is to allow planets to hybridize effectively. It removing much of your control over hybridization is not only not the point, it undermines the point. It's a downside of the current design that they should circumvent.

Tbf with virtuality it wouldn't be as much of a problem with the instant jobs but I see your point. I don't entirely feel that it's a major problem right now, as you don't need too many planets to have one for each key resource. But as more patches come out and it becomes easier to play with some balance I could see my thoughts going either way.
 
...
Random thing I noticed. Devs have said they want to eliminate the amenities zone entirely. So that one at least should be gone.
The problem is, that Zone works great for Rural-only planets. So if you make a Mining Colony that's 10 Mining Districts, and 5 Generator Districts, with no city districts at all, the Amenties Zone becomes the best option.

The problem was making an Amenities Zone functionally the only source of Amenities, outside of using your limited Govt Building Slots.
 
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
missed something, so a double, sorry.
You can still have buildings that modify jobs, adding more output or whatever. I'm just saying that buildings that only add +X jobs change how they work. The idea is that Zones and maybe Planet Designation are what provide those Specialist and Elite level jobs, and building's modify those jobs, either by adding more or modifying the jobs.
Flat jobs were explicitly added to buildings so that you can manage a single planet if you are life-seeded or something similar. if you remove flat jobs from buildings, then your starting planet is going to have many shortages, and you are going to make general planets impossible again.
The problem is, that Zone works great for Rural-only planets. So if you make a Mining Colony that's 10 Mining Districts, and 5 Generator Districts, with no city districts at all, the Amenties Zone becomes the best option.

The problem was making an Amenities Zone functionally the only source of Amenities, outside of using your limited Govt Building Slots.
Ah, but that assumes amenities stay exactly the way they are, and I got the impression at least a few amenity buildings would be made more general back when the devs agreed the zone had to go. allowing you to dump some in rural planets anyways.

But you are right, rural planets need a way to produce amenities.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Tbf with virtuality it wouldn't be as much of a problem with the instant jobs but I see your point. I don't entirely feel that it's a major problem right now, as you don't need too many planets to have one for each key resource. But as more patches come out and it becomes easier to play with some balance I could see my thoughts going either way.
Virtuality should be the least of those because it won't have problems from pops moving to the wrong jobs, it will just HAVE jobs it doesn't need as badly as others.

My originally suggested solution is to add a ratio control to determine how much goes to each zone out of a district, and then there can be a button that simultaneously queues a new district and adjusts the ratio when it finishes to only add jobs of the type you want. That resolves the problem entirely.

It is really important here to know what is and what isn't the purpose of zones. Their purpose is to allow easier and better output hybridization and customization based on your empire. The purpose IS NOT to take away all other control of how many of Job X you get compared to Job Y. It is doing that, but it has nothing to do with their purpose for existing and is a huge downside.
 
missed something, so a double, sorry.

Flat jobs were explicitly added to buildings so that you can manage a single planet if you are life-seeded or something similar. if you remove flat jobs from buildings, then your starting planet is going to have many shortages, and you are going to make general planets impossible again.

Ah, but that assumes amenities stay exactly the way they are, and I got the impression at least a few amenity buildings would be made more general back when the devs agreed the zone had to go. allowing you to dump some in rural planets anyways.

But you are right, rural planets need a way to produce amenities.
A fix for that first point would be to have the generic "primitive" buildings in an urban zone early on, so you can make single-planets viable. But just have then provide an amount low-enough that specialization later becomes more viable, I guess.
 
Hi Thiend.

The times when you will actually in play absolutely, desperately need to only increase one job and only one job are vanishingly small. Go play the beta and come back with some screenshots of you encountering this hypothetical boogeyman and I will tell you how to solve it.
 
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:
The problem is, that Zone works great for Rural-only planets. So if you make a Mining Colony that's 10 Mining Districts, and 5 Generator Districts, with no city districts at all, the Amenties Zone becomes the best option.

The problem was making an Amenities Zone functionally the only source of Amenities, outside of using your limited Govt Building Slots.
The devs have responded saying yeah it's a problem and that they're going to do amenities differently.
 
Hi Thiend.

The times when you will actually in play absolutely, desperately need to only increase one job and only one job are vanishingly small. Go play the beta and come back with some screenshots of you encountering this hypothetical boogeyman and I will tell you how to solve it.
While I'm clearly not against the current state of things + balance, I can say it happens at times. Especially if you build your home world with cg and research districts and then enter a bad cg deficient. It's not common in my experience that you really need to worry about it too much. But it happens. In my case, I don't mind spending trade in the market for a decade to get my cg out of the negative if that is what is needed. I did that a lot in 3.14 and basically ever since it was possible. so big shrug.
 
While I'm clearly not against the current state of things + balance, I can say it happens at times. Especially if you build your home world with cg and research districts and then enter a bad cg deficient. It's not common in my experience that you really need to worry about it too much. But it happens. In my case, I don't mind spending trade in the market for a decade to get my cg out of the negative if that is what is needed. I did that a lot in 3.14 and basically ever since it was possible. so big shrug.

I think this is an example of a balance problem. In theory, ignoring any inequalities between buildings, a factory and research world should produce slightly more consumer goods than it consumed. If you have a drain elsewhere and this is your only CG production that is an issue but I still don’t think a fundamental one.
 
While I'm clearly not against the current state of things + balance, I can say it happens at times. Especially if you build your home world with cg and research districts and then enter a bad cg deficient. It's not common in my experience that you really need to worry about it too much. But it happens. In my case, I don't mind spending trade in the market for a decade to get my cg out of the negative if that is what is needed. I did that a lot in 3.14 and basically ever since it was possible. so big shrug.
Yeah that's what I was getting at but you ruined my practical demonstration :mad: (j/k). The Trade changes and the planet changes go hand in hand. Trade disconnecting from energy means you're not sacrificing a "real" resource to cover shortfalls. (E: not even shortfalls, you should be buying just because you don't want to wait a month). You're expected to buy stuff, otherwise your trade is mounting up uselessly and you're throwing away utility. If you need more CG and none of your city increasers work then you set up a standing trade on the market. That's how the game works now.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I think this is an example of a balance problem. In theory, ignoring any inequalities between buildings, a factory and research world should produce slightly more consumer goods than it consumed. If you have a drain elsewhere and this is your only CG production that is an issue but I still don’t think a fundamental one.
Its partly a balance problem. But I might have done this bad enough thanks to more unity districts on colonies in my first game. Opps.
Yeah that's what I was getting at but you ruined my practical demonstration :mad: (j/k). The Trade changes and the planet changes go hand in hand. Trade disconnecting from energy means you're not sacrificing a "real" resource to cover shortfalls. You're expected to buy stuff, otherwise your trade is mounting up uselessly and you're throwing away utility. If you need more CG and increasing cg + whatever isn't an option then you set up a standing trade on the market.

That's the point of trade now.
Like I said before, I was doing this when the trade resource was energy. the only difference now is that I don't enter energy death spirals because I built one to many robot colonies. It's still possible, but energy problems no longer blind side me. Cause I'm not spending it in the market.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Its partly a balance problem. But I might have done this bad enough thanks to more unity districts on colonies in my first game. Opps.

Understandable given the unity balance at the moment lol. I also crashed out in the first betas trying to figure out how to not have negative unity after a couple of leader level ups.
 
Its partly a balance problem. But I might have done this bad enough thanks to more unity districts on colonies in my first game. Opps.

Like I said before, I was doing this when the trade resource was energy. the only difference now is that I don't enter energy death spirals because I built one to many robot colonies. It's still possible, but energy problems no longer blind side me. Cause I'm not spending it in the market.
Yup, we're agreeing at each other here. The "you" in my post is the, uh, royal you? Not you yourself. It's going to be a mindset shift for some players. If a player is used to running clockwork economies where dipping into the market means they messed up their economy by overproducing energy instead of the thing they're low on then it's going to be a bit of a mindset shift to realise that no, that's not how it works anymore. You're expected to use the trade burning a hole in your pocket, whether that's starting the game by dropping it on a chunk of minerals to jump start your economy or propping up a shortfall of CG instead of optimising your CG output to exactly match your input.

If you're already used to using the market as part of your day to day (or, like me, would have if it wasn't tied to energy) then it's a much easier leap.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
Hi Thiend.

The times when you will actually in play absolutely, desperately need to only increase one job and only one job are vanishingly small. Go play the beta and come back with some screenshots of you encountering this hypothetical boogeyman and I will tell you how to solve it.
What an utterly condescending response.

1. No, I already played it and I'm not doing so again just to get you screenshots. I don't find it fun due to the mentioned issue.
2. If you have a solution for the not remotely hypothetical problem, you don't need to see it in action to produce a solution.
 
  • 3
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
I think this is an example of a balance problem. In theory, ignoring any inequalities between buildings, a factory and research world should produce slightly more consumer goods than it consumed. If you have a drain elsewhere and this is your only CG production that is an issue but I still don’t think a fundamental one.
It is theoretically a solution to just increase the per-job disparity between inputs and outputs to favor outputs more. Although, I've also thought of a new "simplest possible solution" option that doesn't require changing the balance between jobs. Your post made me think of it because it made me think of "how do we make this not actually a problem without changing almost anything."

Change job prioritization to allow picking any number of things per category to prioritize OR deprioritize, then make deprioritize prevent adding more workforce to that category until all other jobs are filled. Prioritize can make those jobs the first filled with workforce.

So basically, deprioritize makes it last filled with workforce, and prioritize makes it filled first with workforce. It wouldn't actually move jobs around like now, that could be the same behavior as now (pick one to be "first priority" that can pull from any other category to fill workforce needs).

Then you can simply deprioritize the jobs you don't want more of yet when building a district, and the problem should basically never happen again. If you build a district with 200 jobs and you wanted the output of 50 of them, you deprioritize the others when you queue the district and don't need to go back when it completes. It won't pull anyone off the worker tier to fill deprioritized jobs, so you're good to go - no demotion time, no need to check the planet later, no need to reopen jobs later (because they won't actually be closed).

As an added bonus, you can, on a world producing both upkeep and output of the same resource, prioritize the output first so that it naturally fills out to prevent a deficit, if you care of course.
 
  • 5Like
Reactions:
Change job prioritization to allow picking any number of things per category to prioritize OR deprioritize, then make deprioritize prevent adding more workforce to that category until all other jobs are filled. Prioritize can make those jobs the first filled with workforce.

So basically, deprioritize makes it last filled with workforce, and prioritize makes it filled first with workforce. It wouldn't actually move jobs around like now, that could be the same behavior as now (pick one to be "first priority" that can pull from any other category to fill workforce needs).
actually a very nice solution. I like it! mainly because I can see myself using it despite not normally wanting to muck around with closing jobs.
 
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:
actually a very nice solution. I like it! mainly because I can see myself using it despite not normally wanting to muck around with closing jobs.
Yeah, it's just an upgrade instead of a solution only to the problem. Instead of making you not need to close jobs for this, it makes you not need to close jobs ever.
 
  • 1
Reactions: