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Behind the Scenes #1: Modding

Greetings everyone. We have a new mini-series of development diaries as we count down to the release of Cities: Skylines II. In this series, we take you behind the scenes of development sharing some of our processes and philosophy behind certain features as well as give you a sneak peek at our plans for the future.

To start with, we’re going to talk about modding in Cities: Skylines II. While modding isn’t supported at release, we want to share what modding means to us and how we approach modding support, so you know what to expect. Modding in Cities: Skylines played an important part in making the game a success, so it was obvious to us that Cities: Skylines II also has to be moddable, and we can't wait to see what the modders come up with this time around!


MODDING IN OUR GAMES
Our journey with modding started in a somewhat unexpected way with our first game, Cities in Motion. Back then, we hadn’t initially planned extensive modding support, but as the game used our own technology and was very accessible to players, a modding community grew surrounding the game. While not intentional we soon discovered how much modding can add to a game with players customizing their gameplay experience, creating and sharing content with each other.

We carried that lesson forward to Cities in Motion 2, though it wasn’t until Cities: Skylines that we really realized the full potential of supporting modding. As we were developing the game, we had one of our two programmers focus on creating tools to mod the game. When Cities: Skylines was released, we had a map editor, that let you create your own maps to build cities on, and an asset editor to import custom 3D models to the game. These, along with code mods, could then be shared on the Steam Workshop and downloaded by others. Through the years we expanded the capabilities of the asset editor to include more options, and as map themes and scenarios were added to the game, we included editors to make your very own.

Today, the Cities: Skylines Workshop has over 400,000 mods with everything from maps and themes to buildings and code mods changing the rules of the game. We were absolutely blown away by the creativity and dedication of our modding community, and throughout the game’s lifetime, we have continued to improve how we interact with the modders.

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The built-in editor and easy sharing through the Steam Workshop brought more modding opportunities to Cities: Skylines than our previous games had.

CITIES SKYLINES II
When we started developing Cities: Skylines II, we knew we wanted the game to support modding as much as its predecessor did. In 2019, as part of our 10-year anniversary celebration, we invited a group of prominent modders to Tampere to help us determine how we can best support their modding efforts. We introduced them to the features Cities: Skylines II would come to include, as well as the level of detail and realism of its art style. We discussed their experiences modding Cities: Skylines and they provided great feedback on how we could support the community in Cities: Skylines II. As an example, our map creators expressed a wish to be able to create taller mountains and deeper valleys, and as you may have seen from our Maps & Themes development diary, this is possible in Cities: Skylines II.

We support modding to celebrate the community and we want everyone to be able to take part in it. This is the reason why we focus on making sure that the modding tools are available on all possible platforms while respecting the limitations that individual platforms may have. To offer the same content for all the players we have chosen Paradox Mods as our portal for sharing your amazing creations across all platforms.

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Access the Editor and Paradox Mods directly from the main menu


MODDING BETA
We have always tried to offer as much support for the modders as possible and the modding beta was created for Cities: Skylines as a part of our efforts. The purpose of this was to ensure the modders could prepare updates for mods that might break with game updates. Having the opportunity to access the upcoming builds prior to release provided them time to familiarize themselves with the changes and work on and test updates to their mods.

As the Cities: Skylines Modding community grew, this group was expanded to include asset creators and its purpose expanded to provide direct feedback on the modding tools. The beta gave us the opportunity to get feedback on the road editor before it was released to the public and have direct conversations with our modders about what improvements to the game’s API would be useful to them.

As the updates for Cities: Skylines have ended the modding beta shifted more towards testing and providing feedback on the modding tools in Cities: Skylines II. Currently, the modding beta is testing the Cities: Skylines II Editor, which we'll dig into in the next development diary.
 
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Steam workshop is just a simple distribution platform, I don't understand people can get so emotional over this. You guys never used Nexus / Vortex for mod management before? Its not rocket science.
I’m much more worried that we don’t even have an ETA on when modding support will be enabled, and I just don’t understand why can’t Steam Workshop work in connection with Paradox Mods, as it has been done in all other Paradox Games. Even Victoria 3 has it.
 
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I think that ultimately this comes down to Paradox wanting control. The fact that such a huge number of CS fans interact and augment their gaming experience through a 3rd party provider doesn't sit comfortably with them.

They want control of the modding community so they can;

A) Protect their brand (no more mods that include political or branded or NSFW content).

B) Offer console gamers some modding capability. I buy that this is a small part of their reasoning.

C) Direct engagement with CS2 through their own launcher and store front.

D) Open up a very lucrative potential new revenue stream. Access to mods through Pardox mods will probably be free in CS2 to begin with but I predict that sooner or later they intend to monetize mods.
 
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This is the reason why we focus on making sure that the modding tools are available on all possible platforms while respecting the limitations that individual platforms may have.
Then what is the purpose of playing on PC if we have to bring ourselves down to the limitations of consoles.
 
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I think that ultimately this comes down to Paradox wanting control. The fact that such a huge number of CS fans interact and augment their gaming experience through a 3rd party provider doesn't sit comfortably with them.

They want control of the modding community so they can;

A) Protect their brand (no more mods that include political or branded or NSFW content).

B) Offer console gamers some modding capability. I buy that this is a small part of their reasoning.

C) Direct engagement with CS2 through their own launcher and store front.

D) Open up a very lucrative potential new revenue stream. Access to mods through Pardox mods will probably be free in CS2 to begin with but I predict that sooner or later they intend to monetize mods.

I pretty much doubt that and also never noticed something like that happening on all games with actual mod support I ever played.

A) could have been done on Steam, too.

B) That's the deal mainly.

C) Launcher on Consoles? What store front? Sales will most likely still be handled through Steam.

D) Could also have been done on Steam already. They could have shut down the Workshop and only sell the CCPs. The CCP way is already good and is also already announced ("Urban Promenades" and "Modern Architecture" being the first two CCPs created by community members).


Honestly I think the reasons for moving from Steam WS are:

A) Security - There was at least one situation on Steam WS with a malicious acting mod sticking around for weeks which slowed down the simulation when another mod (TM|PE) was detected. It was reported to Steam but it was low priority for them.

B) Cross Plattform sharing as mentioned

C) Costs - I pretty much doubt Steam provides a full multi Terabyte cloud storage for free. They want extra for space and their support, so costs can be cut if something is inhouse.
 
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When PDX Mods for CS2 is released and it sucks, that is when I will be vocal, but to get angry at this stage... well... its unnecessesary.
 
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Then what is the purpose of playing on PC if we have to bring ourselves down to the limitations of consoles.

If only there were a way to gather large amounts of data on how the game performs BEFORE releasing the game on console. That would help optimize the game for console right?

Console users think they have been dealt a bad hand by the delay but actually I think PC users are the mugs who will be spending 50 bucks before the game is fully optimized.
 
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Grate written article, very much diplomatic… if you know how mods helped you maintain CS alive for so long , why then some of the most essential mods are not part if vanilla cities experience?!? Why move it is not here?! Or PO? Where is prop line tool ?!? Real IMT ?! It is all fun and cool when you can relay on people to do stuff for free…
 
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Well, I personally am happy that they chose to use the Paradox Mods over Stream Workshop, since this way I don't need to buy the game from Steam too, as it's included in my Game Pass for PC subscription, and I can't even imagine playing this game without mods.
 
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To start with, we’re going to talk about modding in Cities: Skylines II. While modding isn’t supported at release, we want to share what modding means to us and how we approach modding support, so you know what to expect.
When can we expect modding? Are we talking about a week? Month? Spring 2024?

Is it possible to get beta access to the asset editor when I buy the game?

To be honest I don't really play the game, I'll be only using the asset editor
I got multiple half finished assets for CS2 already but I can't finish them yet because of missing information.
Also I made several assets for C:S1 as well in the early days.
 
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Also Steam workshop started at some point.. ;)
The issue is not with the Paradox Workshop but with the removal of the Steam Workshop.


Steam workshop is just a simple distribution platform, I don't understand people can get so emotional over this. You guys never used Nexus / Vortex for mod management before? Its not rocket science.
CS modding was a thing in CS1 because it was very easy, and very convenient even for casual players that get intimidated with manual installation of mods. Using Nexus isn't, not for most people.


D) Open up a very lucrative potential new revenue stream. Access to mods through Pardox mods will probably be free in CS2 to begin with but I predict that sooner or later they intend to monetize mods.
Yep. I guess it is a matter of time, probably a few years.


When PDX Mods for CS2 is released and it sucks, that is when I will be vocal, but to get angry at this stage... well... its unnecessesary.
It's not getting angry but expressing the dislike about the situation as a potential consumer. The new Paradox Workshop is fine, but why getting rid of the Steam Workshop?.


Well, I personally am happy that they chose to use the Paradox Mods over Stream Workshop, since this way I don't need to buy the game from Steam too, as it's included in my Game Pass for PC subscription, and I can't even imagine playing this game without mods.
Why are you happy when they could do both?. Don't you think more choices would be better?.
 
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The main post clearly states that the Steam Workshop for Cities: Skylines has over 400,000 items, now compare that to Paradox Mods, only less than 300 items available.

And yet they still killed Steam Workshop for this game, and still no plans to add support, even partially, after the amount of backlash they recieved.
 
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Why are you happy when they could do both?. Don't you think more choices would be better?.
I don't think supporting two platforms is that feasible for mod devs. Having done some mods to other games, although not for CS1, I found Steam Workshop a bit cumbersome for publishing updates to my mods. Personally I wouldn't want to do the same work for two distribution platforms. Then again, I'm rather lazy, so maybe for others it's not a big deal... ;)

Also, with CS1 external tools/utilities are needed to make sure that all the mods were uptodate, no duplicate assets were loaded and mods didn't break the game when a new CS update/DLC was released. I'm cautiously optimistic that this would improve with Paradox Mods... it might not, but I can't see how it could get much worse as it is currently with CS1.
 
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Will Paradox confirm that they will never introduce paid mods in any way shape or form, nor will they restrict or ban mods because they want to monetize them as a content pack or within DLC?
 
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Steam workshop is just a simple distribution platform, I don't understand people can get so emotional over this. You guys never used Nexus / Vortex for mod management before? Its not rocket science.
You fail to understand that Steam Workshop is basically the most simple way to install modded content; all you have to do is simply click the subscribe button, and that's it. Nothing else to do, simply launch the game and enable it on the content manager.

Other sites like Nexus Mods, doesn't have that option, you still need to download them in .zip files and have to install them properly into the correct folders by yourself.

So if you messed up the installation, your game breaks. Which isn't possible on Steam Workshop since it's completely automated; the only way it could break your game is when the certain mod is now out-of-date for current game version.
 
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