Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries
Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Cities: Skylines 2 3793 Cities Skylines 2: User Mods 897 Bug Reports 7648 Suggestions 1800 Official Information & Announcements 136 Analyze and Speculate 188
Previous dev diary Next dev diary

Behind the Scenes #1: Modding

Greetings everyone. We have a new mini-series of development diaries as we count down to the release of Cities: Skylines II. In this series, we take you behind the scenes of development sharing some of our processes and philosophy behind certain features as well as give you a sneak peek at our plans for the future.

To start with, we’re going to talk about modding in Cities: Skylines II. While modding isn’t supported at release, we want to share what modding means to us and how we approach modding support, so you know what to expect. Modding in Cities: Skylines played an important part in making the game a success, so it was obvious to us that Cities: Skylines II also has to be moddable, and we can't wait to see what the modders come up with this time around!


MODDING IN OUR GAMES
Our journey with modding started in a somewhat unexpected way with our first game, Cities in Motion. Back then, we hadn’t initially planned extensive modding support, but as the game used our own technology and was very accessible to players, a modding community grew surrounding the game. While not intentional we soon discovered how much modding can add to a game with players customizing their gameplay experience, creating and sharing content with each other.

We carried that lesson forward to Cities in Motion 2, though it wasn’t until Cities: Skylines that we really realized the full potential of supporting modding. As we were developing the game, we had one of our two programmers focus on creating tools to mod the game. When Cities: Skylines was released, we had a map editor, that let you create your own maps to build cities on, and an asset editor to import custom 3D models to the game. These, along with code mods, could then be shared on the Steam Workshop and downloaded by others. Through the years we expanded the capabilities of the asset editor to include more options, and as map themes and scenarios were added to the game, we included editors to make your very own.

Today, the Cities: Skylines Workshop has over 400,000 mods with everything from maps and themes to buildings and code mods changing the rules of the game. We were absolutely blown away by the creativity and dedication of our modding community, and throughout the game’s lifetime, we have continued to improve how we interact with the modders.

1 Steam Workshop.png

The built-in editor and easy sharing through the Steam Workshop brought more modding opportunities to Cities: Skylines than our previous games had.

CITIES SKYLINES II
When we started developing Cities: Skylines II, we knew we wanted the game to support modding as much as its predecessor did. In 2019, as part of our 10-year anniversary celebration, we invited a group of prominent modders to Tampere to help us determine how we can best support their modding efforts. We introduced them to the features Cities: Skylines II would come to include, as well as the level of detail and realism of its art style. We discussed their experiences modding Cities: Skylines and they provided great feedback on how we could support the community in Cities: Skylines II. As an example, our map creators expressed a wish to be able to create taller mountains and deeper valleys, and as you may have seen from our Maps & Themes development diary, this is possible in Cities: Skylines II.

We support modding to celebrate the community and we want everyone to be able to take part in it. This is the reason why we focus on making sure that the modding tools are available on all possible platforms while respecting the limitations that individual platforms may have. To offer the same content for all the players we have chosen Paradox Mods as our portal for sharing your amazing creations across all platforms.

2 Editor and friends.png

Access the Editor and Paradox Mods directly from the main menu


MODDING BETA
We have always tried to offer as much support for the modders as possible and the modding beta was created for Cities: Skylines as a part of our efforts. The purpose of this was to ensure the modders could prepare updates for mods that might break with game updates. Having the opportunity to access the upcoming builds prior to release provided them time to familiarize themselves with the changes and work on and test updates to their mods.

As the Cities: Skylines Modding community grew, this group was expanded to include asset creators and its purpose expanded to provide direct feedback on the modding tools. The beta gave us the opportunity to get feedback on the road editor before it was released to the public and have direct conversations with our modders about what improvements to the game’s API would be useful to them.

As the updates for Cities: Skylines have ended the modding beta shifted more towards testing and providing feedback on the modding tools in Cities: Skylines II. Currently, the modding beta is testing the Cities: Skylines II Editor, which we'll dig into in the next development diary.
 
  • 59
  • 46Like
  • 14Love
  • 2
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
Sort by date Sort by reaction score
EspoiR_LorD said:
It doesn't work that way. The main mods in Steam are mods with code that radically change the gameplay. If the same thing happened on consoles, it would be great. Disadvantaged people could benefit from Move It, but no. As a result, we are abandoning Steam so that console players can build a wider variety of houses. Ugh.

The second example is Victoria 3. PDX 1100 has mods, and the steam has almost 4000. Yes, and good. Victoria 3 has a choice. There is a workshop both there and there. Poor people on consoles can use PDX, the rest would use steam. But no, they impose only 1 choice on us
Click to expand...
"Poor people on consoles can use PDX, the rest would use steam."

See, this attitude is probably part of Paradox's reasoning. I'm also skeptical of how well Paradox Mods will function and any ulterior motives, but let's be honest with ourselves: if Steam players had both Steam Workshop and Paradox Mods, then why would anyone use Paradox Mods? The ease of use, freedom, and user experience provided by the Steam Workshop for Steam games is superior to any other modding solution. This means that most mods would only be uploaded to and/or supported by the mod authors when downloaded from Steam Workshop. This directly leads into 1) PC players being almost-forced to fully purchase the game on Steam and no other platform, and 2) console players losing out on many asset mods and/or support from mod authors. Making the game use Paradox Mods allows for one central location where mods are hosted, managed, and supported, giving console users access and support for every asset mod and giving PC users every asset and code mod regardless of their storefront of choice. More users means they can get more feedback on improving Paradox Mods as well, to provide us the same ease of use, freedom, and user experience as the Steam Workshop.

Again, I'm absolutely skeptical of how this will play out. Everyone should be. This change means that Paradox will have full control over the mods, potentially lock down some mods to being paid for down the line, and even one day shut down modding entirely if they can't host the necessary servers (or simply don't want to anymore), potentially putting a time limit on CS2's mod support. We need to hold Paradox accountable for whatever happens in the future, but a part of me wants to at least give them a chance to make a good Steam Workshop-like experience so all users can have the same experience with mods no matter where they are.

tl;dr This isn't black and white, there's benefits to this change, but we've got to keep them honest. Like I said in a previous post, hope for the best but brace for the worst.
 
  • 3Haha
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
SuperMickyChow said:
The key takeaway for the community should be to examine what you guys are actually saying when you say "there are no plans to charge for mods or assets"


Not having plans to do something doesn't mean that thing will not happen.

You've used extremely deceitful language to cover the fact that plans to charge for mods and assets can be introduced at a later date - by which time it will be too late for players to refund their purchase.

I've seen this kind of language from businesses before, across all industries, and sooner or later the thing they had "no plans" for ended up happening anyway.
Click to expand...

I largely agree but would add a caveat to this. I believe the Community Managers (basically a euphemism for PR exec) are being genuine when they say that they are unaware of any plans to charge for mods or assets. When it happens they will simply be responsible for communicating and spinning the decision.

These types of strategies and changes to business models are not concocted by junior PR Execs/Community Managers so it's not fair to call them deceitful. They aren't paid a fortune and have nothing to gain from paid mods unless they own shares in Paradox. I imagine having to communicate with the community when these changes finally occur will be a bad day in the office for them.
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:
What I expect to happen is ether
1: CO adds steam workshop support at some point.
or
2: Somebody will mod a Nexus Mod Addon for CS2 and PDX Mods will be dead.
 
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:
SlyCooperFan1 said:
"Poor people on consoles can use PDX, the rest would use steam."

See, this attitude is probably part of Paradox's reasoning. I'm also skeptical of how well Paradox Mods will function and any ulterior motives, but let's be honest with ourselves: if Steam players had both Steam Workshop and Paradox Mods, then why would anyone use Paradox Mods? The ease of use, freedom, and user experience provided by the Steam Workshop for Steam games is superior to any other modding solution. This means that most mods would only be uploaded to and/or supported by the mod authors when downloaded from Steam Workshop. This directly leads into 1) PC players being almost-forced to fully purchase the game on Steam and no other platform, and 2) console players losing out on many asset mods and/or support from mod authors. Making the game use Paradox Mods allows for one central location where mods are hosted, managed, and supported, giving console users access and support for every asset mod and giving PC users every asset and code mod regardless of their storefront of choice.
Click to expand...
This argument makes it clear that the reason for this is to force people to do something; and when people know they are being forced or manipulated, it creates an almost instinctive drive to do the opposite.

I worry that this will scatter the mods among the stars.
 
  • 7Like
Reactions:
Rhone said:
I largely agree but would add a caveat to this. I believe the Community Managers (basically a euphemism for PR exec) are being genuine when they say that they are unaware of any plans to charge for mods or assets. When it happens they will simply be responsible for communicating and spinning the decision.

These types of strategies and changes to business models are not concocted by junior PR Execs/Community Managers so it's not fair to call them deceitful. I imagine having to communicate with the community when these changes finally occur will be a bad day in the office for them.
Click to expand...
The language used is deceitful, implying mods will be free, when anyone who has ever worked in PR/corporate knows precisely what it means.
It's an attempt to hoodwink players into purchasing the game, then charging for mods when it's too late to get a refund.

If they weren't ever going to be paid mods, they would simply say this, knowing it would sit well with the community and get them onside again.

It's one thing for a community manager to have a bad day at the office, but when it's too late to refund the game, it's the players that are out of pocket, not the community managers, the devs & the publisher.
 
  • 10Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Kedryn said:
This argument makes it clear that the reason for this is to force people to do something; and when people know they are being forced or manipulated, it creates an almost instinctive drive to do the opposite.

I worry that this will scatter the mods among the stars.
Click to expand...
I'm suspecting modders would move over to a opensource modding addon that would allow connection to different modding communities.
People are not going to want to use PDX Mods.
 
  • 5Like
  • 1
Reactions:
DerFremde said:
I wonder what is going to happen if Paradox wants to release a DLC and before that, the same or similar mechanics appear as a mod. Are they going to accept that the free mod will probably hurt their sales? Or are they going to remove the mod from their own platform?
Click to expand...
I'll give you one guess at the correct answer and it isn't the first option
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:
Tullaris said:
Steam workshop is just a simple distribution platform, I don't understand people can get so emotional over this. You guys never used Nexus / Vortex for mod management before? Its not rocket science.
Click to expand...
This. Not sure why everyone is losing their minds over this. If the mods are easily accessible and available in the game I couldn't care less about where they are stored.
 
  • 9
  • 6Like
Reactions:
mackau said:
Will Paradox confirm that they will never introduce paid mods in any way shape or form, nor will they restrict or ban mods because they want to monetize them as a content pack or within DLC?
Click to expand...
They will not do this, simply because what you have suggested is what will happen.

You may get some simple, boring assets for free, but if you want that jazzy City Hall building with the lovely gardens and offices attached? That's $0.99 please, thank you!
The quirky new overhead railway station?
Only $1.99 till the end of the month

In CS1 I had some adult-oriented assets for my seedy downtown (a biker dive bar, a strip club and an "adult bookstore") - because I like my cities to look realistic. This was easy with Steam Workshop and CS1.

I can't see Paradox allowing a strip club building asset or adult bookstore in their store, so it'll be back to boring, sanitised, safe-for-children Disney rubbish, and that's why I'm not buying this game unless Steam Workshop is brought on-board and the mods & assets are free (unless I want to make a donation to the modder, which is often the case)
 
  • 5Like
  • 2
Reactions:
DerFremde said:
I wonder what is going to happen if Paradox wants to release a DLC and before that, the same or similar mechanics appear as a mod. Are they going to accept that the free mod will probably hurt their sales? Or are they going to remove the mod from their own platform?
Click to expand...
I would love to see Paradox incorporating popular mods, that way we get rid of those update crisis when suddenly your game doesn't load anymore and you've to wait till a modder fixes it.
 
To be fair they have been planning this for years. From the Privacy Policy page on Paradox Mods;

By making your UGC (User Generated Content) available, you grant us and our affiliates a nonexclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable, irrevocable, and perpetual right to use, develop, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, otherwise communicate, publicly display, publicly perform and otherwise commercialise or exploit your UGC in any manner or form and in any medium or forum, whether now known or later devised without attribution or compensation to you or any third party. This right shall survive the termination of this Agreement.
 
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
A lot of serious players use TMPE and Move it. Will CS2 have code mods? Only assets have been talked about, and in the past assets were the only thing available for CS through PDX/CO's official platforms.
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:
SuperMickyChow said:
In CS1 I had some adult-oriented assets for my seedy downtown (a biker dive bar, a strip club and an "adult bookstore") - because I like my cities to look realistic. This was easy with Steam Workshop and CS1.

I can't see Paradox allowing a strip club building asset or adult bookstore in their store, so it'll be back to boring, sanitised, safe-for-children Disney rubbish, and that's why I'm not buying this game unless Steam Workshop is brought on-board and the mods & assets are free (unless I want to make a donation to the modder, which is often the case)
Click to expand...

from their recent FAQ:
"Will you be able to publish copyrighted buildings or copyrighted brands?
You are able to publish anything that you create, but if we receive a cease-and-desist it will be removed. It is the same process as on Steam Workshop."

I would assume this also counts for 18+ mods (within reason), the game also has 18+ stuff like casino's.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back