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Behind the Scenes #1: Modding

Greetings everyone. We have a new mini-series of development diaries as we count down to the release of Cities: Skylines II. In this series, we take you behind the scenes of development sharing some of our processes and philosophy behind certain features as well as give you a sneak peek at our plans for the future.

To start with, we’re going to talk about modding in Cities: Skylines II. While modding isn’t supported at release, we want to share what modding means to us and how we approach modding support, so you know what to expect. Modding in Cities: Skylines played an important part in making the game a success, so it was obvious to us that Cities: Skylines II also has to be moddable, and we can't wait to see what the modders come up with this time around!


MODDING IN OUR GAMES
Our journey with modding started in a somewhat unexpected way with our first game, Cities in Motion. Back then, we hadn’t initially planned extensive modding support, but as the game used our own technology and was very accessible to players, a modding community grew surrounding the game. While not intentional we soon discovered how much modding can add to a game with players customizing their gameplay experience, creating and sharing content with each other.

We carried that lesson forward to Cities in Motion 2, though it wasn’t until Cities: Skylines that we really realized the full potential of supporting modding. As we were developing the game, we had one of our two programmers focus on creating tools to mod the game. When Cities: Skylines was released, we had a map editor, that let you create your own maps to build cities on, and an asset editor to import custom 3D models to the game. These, along with code mods, could then be shared on the Steam Workshop and downloaded by others. Through the years we expanded the capabilities of the asset editor to include more options, and as map themes and scenarios were added to the game, we included editors to make your very own.

Today, the Cities: Skylines Workshop has over 400,000 mods with everything from maps and themes to buildings and code mods changing the rules of the game. We were absolutely blown away by the creativity and dedication of our modding community, and throughout the game’s lifetime, we have continued to improve how we interact with the modders.

1 Steam Workshop.png

The built-in editor and easy sharing through the Steam Workshop brought more modding opportunities to Cities: Skylines than our previous games had.

CITIES SKYLINES II
When we started developing Cities: Skylines II, we knew we wanted the game to support modding as much as its predecessor did. In 2019, as part of our 10-year anniversary celebration, we invited a group of prominent modders to Tampere to help us determine how we can best support their modding efforts. We introduced them to the features Cities: Skylines II would come to include, as well as the level of detail and realism of its art style. We discussed their experiences modding Cities: Skylines and they provided great feedback on how we could support the community in Cities: Skylines II. As an example, our map creators expressed a wish to be able to create taller mountains and deeper valleys, and as you may have seen from our Maps & Themes development diary, this is possible in Cities: Skylines II.

We support modding to celebrate the community and we want everyone to be able to take part in it. This is the reason why we focus on making sure that the modding tools are available on all possible platforms while respecting the limitations that individual platforms may have. To offer the same content for all the players we have chosen Paradox Mods as our portal for sharing your amazing creations across all platforms.

2 Editor and friends.png

Access the Editor and Paradox Mods directly from the main menu


MODDING BETA
We have always tried to offer as much support for the modders as possible and the modding beta was created for Cities: Skylines as a part of our efforts. The purpose of this was to ensure the modders could prepare updates for mods that might break with game updates. Having the opportunity to access the upcoming builds prior to release provided them time to familiarize themselves with the changes and work on and test updates to their mods.

As the Cities: Skylines Modding community grew, this group was expanded to include asset creators and its purpose expanded to provide direct feedback on the modding tools. The beta gave us the opportunity to get feedback on the road editor before it was released to the public and have direct conversations with our modders about what improvements to the game’s API would be useful to them.

As the updates for Cities: Skylines have ended the modding beta shifted more towards testing and providing feedback on the modding tools in Cities: Skylines II. Currently, the modding beta is testing the Cities: Skylines II Editor, which we'll dig into in the next development diary.
 
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from their recent FAQ:
"Will you be able to publish copyrighted buildings or copyrighted brands?
You are able to publish anything that you create, but if we receive a cease-and-desist it will be removed. It is the same process as on Steam Workshop."

I would assume this also counts for 18+ mods (within reason), the game also has 18+ stuff like casino's.
Right now PDXmods doesn't have any real life buildings. That really concerns me because so many users and especially content creators enjoy replicating real life cities. In the past the workshop bridged that gap and playlists made it super easy to get all the buildings, vehicles, roads, and props unique to a city or country in one place. If switching to PDXmods solicits more DMCA takedowns (or especially preemptive ones), that would make that style of play inaccessible. Many content creators would never play or promote CS2 if that was the case. This of course implies that some sorta RICO and MoveIt would exist. We have no way of knowing what complete overhauls would be available. Just a lot worries me and nothing they've told us is very concrete.
 
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Right now PDXmods doesn't have any real life buildings. That really concerns me because so many users and especially content creators enjoy replicating real life cities. In the past the workshop bridged that gap and playlists made it super easy to get all the buildings, vehicles, roads, and props unique to a city or country in one place. If switching to PDXmods solicits more DMCA takedowns (or especially preemptive ones), that would make that style of play inaccessible. Many content creators would never play or promote CS2 if that was the case. This of course implies that some sorta RICO and MoveIt would exist. We have no way of knowing what complete overhauls would be available. Just a lot worries me and nothing they've told us is very concrete.
But if we never had any problems on Steam why would we have them with Paradox? Both mod hosts can get the same cease-and-desist. I made tons of real life buildings, furniture and clothes assets for several games and never had any problems. Worst case scenario you have to rename the asset and can't use the original logo.
 
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But if we never had any problems on Steam why would we have them with Paradox? Both mod hosts can get the same cease-and-desist. I made tons of real life buildings, furniture and clothes assets for several games and never had any problems. Worst case scenario you have to rename the asset and can't use the original logo.
I'm just speculating. Before, Valve would handle mods put on the workshop. Paradox has their own TOS concerning mods available through their platform. I don't know whether they had rights over the mods on the workshop.

Edit: Also it's just what I can observe from the very few mods (only assets) on the CS PDXmods page. It also doesn't allow uploads anymore? So it's kinda difficult to investigate.
 
Why exclude Steam Workshop? What is that actual logical reasoning behind it?




Well that was a lie.

There's a lot of lying going on here.

"Well, guys..we really want EVERYONE to enjoy the mods and assets because we are just such a kind corporation...that's it! We swear!"

Can't believe people are actually buying this line
 
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I largely agree but would add a caveat to this. I believe the Community Managers (basically a euphemism for PR exec) are being genuine when they say that they are unaware of any plans to charge for mods or assets. When it happens they will simply be responsible for communicating and spinning the decision.

These types of strategies and changes to business models are not concocted by junior PR Execs/Community Managers so it's not fair to call them deceitful. They aren't paid a fortune and have nothing to gain from paid mods unless they own shares in Paradox. I imagine having to communicate with the community when these changes finally occur will be a bad day in the office for them.
You know what all of this is? The team handling paradox mods probably didn't hit their KPI for userbase numbers and is now trying to force it onto their new big game.

If they really had this in development for a while and had many wonderful new features to showcase and market the game, why not do a dev dairy alongside the 13 other dev daries? I'm sure that would have avoided all of this backlash and confusion.

Removing an existing working platform for one we have 0 proof of actually working, and announcing it 1 week before launch isn't a good look.
 
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Greetings everyone. We have a new mini-series of development diaries as we count down to the release of Cities: Skylines II. In this series, we take you behind the scenes of development sharing some of our processes and philosophy behind certain features as well as give you a sneak peek at our plans for the future.

To start with, we’re going to talk about modding in Cities: Skylines II. While modding isn’t supported at release, we want to share what modding means to us and how we approach modding support, so you know what to expect. Modding in Cities: Skylines played an important part in making the game a success, so it was obvious to us that Cities: Skylines II also has to be moddable, and we can't wait to see what the modders come up with this time around!


MODDING IN OUR GAMES
Our journey with modding started in a somewhat unexpected way with our first game, Cities in Motion. Back then, we hadn’t initially planned extensive modding support, but as the game used our own technology and was very accessible to players, a modding community grew surrounding the game. While not intentional we soon discovered how much modding can add to a game with players customizing their gameplay experience, creating and sharing content with each other.

We carried that lesson forward to Cities in Motion 2, though it wasn’t until Cities: Skylines that we really realized the full potential of supporting modding. As we were developing the game, we had one of our two programmers focus on creating tools to mod the game. When Cities: Skylines was released, we had a map editor, that let you create your own maps to build cities on, and an asset editor to import custom 3D models to the game. These, along with code mods, could then be shared on the Steam Workshop and downloaded by others. Through the years we expanded the capabilities of the asset editor to include more options, and as map themes and scenarios were added to the game, we included editors to make your very own.

Today, the Cities: Skylines Workshop has over 400,000 mods with everything from maps and themes to buildings and code mods changing the rules of the game. We were absolutely blown away by the creativity and dedication of our modding community, and throughout the game’s lifetime, we have continued to improve how we interact with the modders.

View attachment 1031557
The built-in editor and easy sharing through the Steam Workshop brought more modding opportunities to Cities: Skylines than our previous games had.

CITIES SKYLINES II
When we started developing Cities: Skylines II, we knew we wanted the game to support modding as much as its predecessor did. In 2019, as part of our 10-year anniversary celebration, we invited a group of prominent modders to Tampere to help us determine how we can best support their modding efforts. We introduced them to the features Cities: Skylines II would come to include, as well as the level of detail and realism of its art style. We discussed their experiences modding Cities: Skylines and they provided great feedback on how we could support the community in Cities: Skylines II. As an example, our map creators expressed a wish to be able to create taller mountains and deeper valleys, and as you may have seen from our Maps & Themes development diary, this is possible in Cities: Skylines II.

We support modding to celebrate the community and we want everyone to be able to take part in it. This is the reason why we focus on making sure that the modding tools are available on all possible platforms while respecting the limitations that individual platforms may have. To offer the same content for all the players we have chosen Paradox Mods as our portal for sharing your amazing creations across all platforms.

View attachment 1031558
Access the Editor and Paradox Mods directly from the main menu


MODDING BETA
We have always tried to offer as much support for the modders as possible and the modding beta was created for Cities: Skylines as a part of our efforts. The purpose of this was to ensure the modders could prepare updates for mods that might break with game updates. Having the opportunity to access the upcoming builds prior to release provided them time to familiarize themselves with the changes and work on and test updates to their mods.

As the Cities: Skylines Modding community grew, this group was expanded to include asset creators and its purpose expanded to provide direct feedback on the modding tools. The beta gave us the opportunity to get feedback on the road editor before it was released to the public and have direct conversations with our modders about what improvements to the game’s API would be useful to them.

As the updates for Cities: Skylines have ended the modding beta shifted more towards testing and providing feedback on the modding tools in Cities: Skylines II. Currently, the modding beta is testing the Cities: Skylines II Editor, which we'll dig into in the next development diary.
Can I ask could you not build mods like moveit and anarchy in the base game? I'm on Console and it was very frustrating not being able to put a simple chair under and umbrella.
 
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Guess it's time to wait and buy the game once the modding policies become more clear and systems fleshed out.

Not that it's difficult, games do be pricey these days.
 
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Wait what, some people don’t like the fact that console players would be able to enjoy what pc players have had for a long time?
Essentially. It’s kind of sad. They want a vibrant CS community but clearly only on their terms.
So dishonest. A vibrant community would be the Steam workshop AND Paradox Plaza. The only group who wants things on their own terms are people like you and Paradox.

It's not a choice between having a vibrant community and having all asset mods on console. It's just that you can't have both in the current state of things.

The big problem is that Paradox Mods is not a vibrant community, since it's missing the essential elements to create one.

As an example, we can look at Factorio mods has a vibrant community within their modding portal, despite not being on Steam Workshop.

Why? Because it offers the tools needed to create one.

Paradox mods is essentially a storefront for mods, and currently lacks the tools to publicly communicate with the mod authors, and for players to help each other.

Meanwhile, on both the Steam Workshop as well as Factorio mod portal, you get what is essentially an entire discussion public forum category dedicated to your mod.

It's this public community interaction which is completely lacking on Paradox mods.
 
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Ok so one question.
Do I need to have that "hmm" Paradox Launcher installed so I can start the game and download mods ?
I never liked that Paradox Launcher. Was always the first uninstall from my HDD after I installed Cities Skylines 1 or Stellaris game.

Will there be a chance to download the mods directly from the game ? Or what is that button, on the picture called Paradox Mods, doing ? Will it open a new window in the game where I can search for mods and download them or it will open that "hmmm" Paradox Launcher where I will need to download mods ?
 
I'm kind of reserving judgement on this. Steam Workshop sucks a... Is not good. ;)

If your replacement works better, or even just makes it easier to look for and find a specific mod, I'll be happy.
 
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Essentially. It’s kind of sad. They want a vibrant CS community but clearly only on their terms.
These sorta accusations are just hilarious. Consoles are all about locking everyone out that's not in line with the console manufacturer (so Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony), financing themselves over permanently or time-exclusive titles. Console players all support those exclusionary environments with their money, yet PC players are just supposed to accept that their products keep getting shafted because games are optimized etcpp. for consoles. And when they say something, they are evil and selfish, instead of the people who bought into a locked system and then are surprised when that has consequences ^^
 
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So dishonest. A vibrant community would be the Steam workshop AND Paradox Plaza. The only group who wants things on their own terms are people like you and Paradox.
But when a creator would decide to upload their assets only to Steam, they still wouldn't be available to console players. This way, all assets will be available on all platforms.
 
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As a lifelong PC gamer... I'm 100% in favour of mods being made equally available to console players. No objections there and anyone who's genuinely against that out of principle needs to get their priorities in order.

Also, Steam Workshop is wonky as hell. It's often unstable. When a mod updates you never quite know if Steam's downloaded the update or not. I remember having to make empty dummy collections for my CS1 mods because that was the only.way to prevent the janky UI from cutting off the list. The search function is borderline useless. When I search for a mod by name the workshop prioritizes every result except that mod, so I've gotten into the habit of googling it instead and subscribing in the browser.

I would not miss it.

However. I have zero experience with PDX mods and so no idea if it actually does these things better, or at least no worse. And going by what people have been saying here it's pretty lacking in communication features, which is something that both Steam Workshop and Nexus offer.

You've got a chance to make this work much, much better than it ever could via Steam Workshop. You also have the chance to mess up the entire modding community for little benefit.
 
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Embrace, extend, and extinguish.​


  • Step 1 - Embrace the modding community & steam workshop.
  • Step 2 - Extend modding by removing steam workshop, requiring Paradox Mod Workshop and coding the game to make it hard if not impossible to mod otherwise.
  • Step 3 - Having suffocated the mod community by requiring Paradox Mod Workshop, extinguish it by charging for paid mods or for paid access to mods via a subscription.
Is this the future for Paradox? We know their entire business model is built upon never ending DLC & Microtransactions..
 
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