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Behind the Scenes #1: Modding

Greetings everyone. We have a new mini-series of development diaries as we count down to the release of Cities: Skylines II. In this series, we take you behind the scenes of development sharing some of our processes and philosophy behind certain features as well as give you a sneak peek at our plans for the future.

To start with, we’re going to talk about modding in Cities: Skylines II. While modding isn’t supported at release, we want to share what modding means to us and how we approach modding support, so you know what to expect. Modding in Cities: Skylines played an important part in making the game a success, so it was obvious to us that Cities: Skylines II also has to be moddable, and we can't wait to see what the modders come up with this time around!


MODDING IN OUR GAMES
Our journey with modding started in a somewhat unexpected way with our first game, Cities in Motion. Back then, we hadn’t initially planned extensive modding support, but as the game used our own technology and was very accessible to players, a modding community grew surrounding the game. While not intentional we soon discovered how much modding can add to a game with players customizing their gameplay experience, creating and sharing content with each other.

We carried that lesson forward to Cities in Motion 2, though it wasn’t until Cities: Skylines that we really realized the full potential of supporting modding. As we were developing the game, we had one of our two programmers focus on creating tools to mod the game. When Cities: Skylines was released, we had a map editor, that let you create your own maps to build cities on, and an asset editor to import custom 3D models to the game. These, along with code mods, could then be shared on the Steam Workshop and downloaded by others. Through the years we expanded the capabilities of the asset editor to include more options, and as map themes and scenarios were added to the game, we included editors to make your very own.

Today, the Cities: Skylines Workshop has over 400,000 mods with everything from maps and themes to buildings and code mods changing the rules of the game. We were absolutely blown away by the creativity and dedication of our modding community, and throughout the game’s lifetime, we have continued to improve how we interact with the modders.

1 Steam Workshop.png

The built-in editor and easy sharing through the Steam Workshop brought more modding opportunities to Cities: Skylines than our previous games had.

CITIES SKYLINES II
When we started developing Cities: Skylines II, we knew we wanted the game to support modding as much as its predecessor did. In 2019, as part of our 10-year anniversary celebration, we invited a group of prominent modders to Tampere to help us determine how we can best support their modding efforts. We introduced them to the features Cities: Skylines II would come to include, as well as the level of detail and realism of its art style. We discussed their experiences modding Cities: Skylines and they provided great feedback on how we could support the community in Cities: Skylines II. As an example, our map creators expressed a wish to be able to create taller mountains and deeper valleys, and as you may have seen from our Maps & Themes development diary, this is possible in Cities: Skylines II.

We support modding to celebrate the community and we want everyone to be able to take part in it. This is the reason why we focus on making sure that the modding tools are available on all possible platforms while respecting the limitations that individual platforms may have. To offer the same content for all the players we have chosen Paradox Mods as our portal for sharing your amazing creations across all platforms.

2 Editor and friends.png

Access the Editor and Paradox Mods directly from the main menu


MODDING BETA
We have always tried to offer as much support for the modders as possible and the modding beta was created for Cities: Skylines as a part of our efforts. The purpose of this was to ensure the modders could prepare updates for mods that might break with game updates. Having the opportunity to access the upcoming builds prior to release provided them time to familiarize themselves with the changes and work on and test updates to their mods.

As the Cities: Skylines Modding community grew, this group was expanded to include asset creators and its purpose expanded to provide direct feedback on the modding tools. The beta gave us the opportunity to get feedback on the road editor before it was released to the public and have direct conversations with our modders about what improvements to the game’s API would be useful to them.

As the updates for Cities: Skylines have ended the modding beta shifted more towards testing and providing feedback on the modding tools in Cities: Skylines II. Currently, the modding beta is testing the Cities: Skylines II Editor, which we'll dig into in the next development diary.
 
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When PDX Mods for CS2 is released and it sucks, that is when I will be vocal, but to get angry at this stage... well... its unnecessesary.
If you have given them your money at this point your voice and anger will be irrelevant to them.
 
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Other sites like Nexus Mods, doesn't have that option, you still need to download them in .zip files and have to install them properly into the correct folders by yourself.
Thats not true. You can use Mod Organizer or Vortex to handle all that stuff. They will open as soon as you hit the download button, download and install.

For auto update you'd need a paid subscription but that's also possible. In case of Mod Organizer it also acts as a launcher so it's basically the same deal as with Steam in these regards.
 
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Thats not true. You can use Mod Organizer or Vortex to handle all that stuff. They will open as soon as you hit the download button, download and install.

For auto update you'd need a paid subscription but that's also possible. In case of Mod Organizer it also acts as a launcher so it's basically the same deal as with Steam in these regards.
Only specific games have them, not all. I used it for Hitman 3 (called "Simple Mod Framework"), but no option exists for the GTA Trilogy; they are still .zip files with readme instructions inside.
 
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Only specific games have them, not all. I used it for Hitman 3 (called "Simple Mod Framework"), but no option exists for the GTA Trilogy; they are still .zip files with readme instructions inside.

Cannot speak for Hitman but at least all BGS titles have that level of support by MO including Starfield.

On GTA you must be aware that Rockstar in general does not support mods. If at all they tolerate them to some extent.

A game in first place must handle mods as plugins to be supported, on solutions like I mentioned as well as on Steam Workshop.
If proprietary archives have to be manipulated in order to add or change stuff that is NOT a game which supports modding.
 
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I wonder what is going to happen if Paradox wants to release a DLC and before that, the same or similar mechanics appear as a mod. Are they going to accept that the free mod will probably hurt their sales? Or are they going to remove the mod from their own platform?
 
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Why not Steam Workshop you cry? Well, because from Steam you can't download mods for console. Because if there were both Steam Workshop and Paradox Mods, some mods would be available in Steam and some in PM and users would have to go through two different places for mods.
 
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Well, I personally am happy that they chose to use the Paradox Mods over Stream Workshop, since this way I don't need to buy the game from Steam too, as it's included in my Game Pass for PC subscription, and I can't even imagine playing this game without mods.
You never needed to buy it from Steam, Paradox shop was opened most of the time, apart from a year recently when they said they were improving their store page... which I can't see being improved in any ways.
 
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Why exclude Steam Workshop? What is that actual logical reasoning behind it?


When we started developing Cities: Skylines II, we knew we wanted the game to support modding as much as its predecessor did

Well that was a lie.
 
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Well, I personally am happy that they chose to use the Paradox Mods over Stream Workshop, since this way I don't need to buy the game from Steam too, as it's included in my Game Pass for PC subscription, and I can't even imagine playing this game without mods.
And you will have to imagine playing game without mods or assets as Paradox mod platform is simply not fit for purpose.
 
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i guess we simply don’t know how well the in game integration of paradox mods will be, it would have to be pretty sublime to upend Steams workshop. But maybe that’s the point, it is that good. The appearance of it in the menu is promising.
 
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Why not Steam Workshop you cry? Well, because from Steam you can't download mods for console. Because if there were both Steam Workshop and Paradox Mods, some mods would be available in Steam and some in PM and users would have to go through two different places for mods.
We already have to go through different places for mods because some creators get angry at Steam, pull all of their mods, and post them at Nexus or elsewhere instead.
 
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The main post clearly states that the Steam Workshop for Cities: Skylines has over 400,000 items, now compare that to Paradox Mods, only less than 300 items available.

And yet they still killed Steam Workshop for this game, and still no plans to add support, even partially, after the amount of backlash they recieved.
It was never allowed to upload to CS1 Paradox Mods. It was just a test for XBX players.
 
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I cancelled my preorder cause of this, I'm not using paradox mods platform as proof with their own launcher is buggy as hell.
Bring back steam workshop, this is bethesda all over again.

I suspect people will abandon paradox mods and use nexus instead, if paradox keep forcing this untested unwanted system on us.
 
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Right...
Can Colossal Order or Paradox clarify one thing because that's being ignored all the time:

If mods and assets on Paradox platform are downladed manually only, and being updated manually only (meaning whenever you remember and have time to check that, you as a gamer and a customer, will have to scroll through hundreds, if not thousands of mod/asset pages, trying to remember if they are those that you have downloaded, check when the last time you have updated was, compare the files and so on) as it is now with other Paradox games (Europa Universalis for example), is it going to be the same experience for Citites Skylines 2 or have you prepared something different. And by different i mean at least as convenient as Steam workshop or better still.
Because so far it's an basolute No for the game. And It's another 8 years waiting for CS 3 to come out to see if any better decision is gonna be made.

At the moment as it stands, this Paradox mod and assets platform is completely not fit for purpose:
- it doesn't download mods and assets - I have to manually transfer a zip file (or any other format file) to an appropriate folder - of which in the case of Cities Skylines were a few, and some were not even in use
- it doesn't upload the assets and mods downloaded - one has to do it themselves - how do you imagine that being done? 5 mods or assets? maybe. but I would get sick of it quickly too. Never mind 5000 or more.
Is your instruction to go through all such asset pages, open them in a browser and keep checking every day before I start the game?
Or would you rather say not to download that many, which still leaves us the said 5 assets or mods and being forced to work on them every time i want to play the game.

Is that what you call great customer experience?

Is that what you call a support?

Or do you really have some surprise that you want to reveal to us?


You've said:
"When we started developing Cities: Skylines II, we knew we wanted the game to support modding as much as its predecessor did" - well, that's off the menu and we now know you've failed.

" it was obvious to us that Cities: Skylines II also has to be moddable" - it might be but using out of date platform such as Paradox means there is no point in modding, there is no point in using mods, and there is no point in actually buying the game (I've already did pre-purchase, so I'll be requesting a refund if that's not changed).

"One of the core reasons for this is its inclusivity; modding capabilities will be extended to players across platforms - both PC and console" - i think it is now for consoles only, maybe they will manage that

"We were absolutely blown away by the creativity and dedication of our modding community, and throughout the game’s lifetime" - and that's the end of it, see above

"As the updates for Cities: Skylines have ended (...)" - you may need to go back to it so we can enjoy something while waiting for CS3 now ... + plus its Asset Editor needs fixing cos assets can't be updated.

You also said once that you are all against the game piracy... but now forcing us to use such unworkable Paradox platform you give exactly the same experience as one can have when using pirated version of the game.
What is the purpose of it then?


All of the above... Well... I had impression that the game would be great, even if it stutters at the release, its performance is not as expected, these are things that would be improved as they were with CS1. But the backbone there was - and that's regardless of how awfull the Steam workshop was :

- the ease of downloading assets and mods and installing them (done in the background)
- the ease they were updated
- the convenience (to some extend) of managing them
- the easy of searching for anything (that might be actually the same experience on Paradox, but that's it)
- lack of (usually) hassle around it

That was the reason I eventually bought CS1 after initially trying it back in 2016.

You are simply pushing people away now and telling them clearly not to buy the game, there is no fun in it anymore.

Please, update us on that Paradox platform, tell us how it works, that it's different.
Or else ruin my spare time - there isn't really any other game that I'd enjoy playing, so it's back to CS1 and how unworkable that one is.


And yes... I still have time to request a refund, so any clarification before the weekend would be great.
If not ... I don't wish you bad but it seems like SimCity 2013 now.
 
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Greetings everyone. We have a new mini-series of development diaries as we count down to the release of Cities: Skylines II. In this series, we take you behind the scenes of development sharing some of our processes and philosophy behind certain features as well as give you a sneak peek at our plans for the future.

To start with, we’re going to talk about modding in Cities: Skylines II. While modding isn’t supported at release, we want to share what modding means to us and how we approach modding support, so you know what to expect. Modding in Cities: Skylines played an important part in making the game a success, so it was obvious to us that Cities: Skylines II also has to be moddable, and we can't wait to see what the modders come up with this time around!


MODDING IN OUR GAMES
Our journey with modding started in a somewhat unexpected way with our first game, Cities in Motion. Back then, we hadn’t initially planned extensive modding support, but as the game used our own technology and was very accessible to players, a modding community grew surrounding the game. While not intentional we soon discovered how much modding can add to a game with players customizing their gameplay experience, creating and sharing content with each other.

We carried that lesson forward to Cities in Motion 2, though it wasn’t until Cities: Skylines that we really realized the full potential of supporting modding. As we were developing the game, we had one of our two programmers focus on creating tools to mod the game. When Cities: Skylines was released, we had a map editor, that let you create your own maps to build cities on, and an asset editor to import custom 3D models to the game. These, along with code mods, could then be shared on the Steam Workshop and downloaded by others. Through the years we expanded the capabilities of the asset editor to include more options, and as map themes and scenarios were added to the game, we included editors to make your very own.

Today, the Cities: Skylines Workshop has over 400,000 mods with everything from maps and themes to buildings and code mods changing the rules of the game. We were absolutely blown away by the creativity and dedication of our modding community, and throughout the game’s lifetime, we have continued to improve how we interact with the modders.

View attachment 1031557
The built-in editor and easy sharing through the Steam Workshop brought more modding opportunities to Cities: Skylines than our previous games had.

CITIES SKYLINES II
When we started developing Cities: Skylines II, we knew we wanted the game to support modding as much as its predecessor did. In 2019, as part of our 10-year anniversary celebration, we invited a group of prominent modders to Tampere to help us determine how we can best support their modding efforts. We introduced them to the features Cities: Skylines II would come to include, as well as the level of detail and realism of its art style. We discussed their experiences modding Cities: Skylines and they provided great feedback on how we could support the community in Cities: Skylines II. As an example, our map creators expressed a wish to be able to create taller mountains and deeper valleys, and as you may have seen from our Maps & Themes development diary, this is possible in Cities: Skylines II.

We support modding to celebrate the community and we want everyone to be able to take part in it. This is the reason why we focus on making sure that the modding tools are available on all possible platforms while respecting the limitations that individual platforms may have. To offer the same content for all the players we have chosen Paradox Mods as our portal for sharing your amazing creations across all platforms.

View attachment 1031558
Access the Editor and Paradox Mods directly from the main menu


MODDING BETA
We have always tried to offer as much support for the modders as possible and the modding beta was created for Cities: Skylines as a part of our efforts. The purpose of this was to ensure the modders could prepare updates for mods that might break with game updates. Having the opportunity to access the upcoming builds prior to release provided them time to familiarize themselves with the changes and work on and test updates to their mods.

As the Cities: Skylines Modding community grew, this group was expanded to include asset creators and its purpose expanded to provide direct feedback on the modding tools. The beta gave us the opportunity to get feedback on the road editor before it was released to the public and have direct conversations with our modders about what improvements to the game’s API would be useful to them.

As the updates for Cities: Skylines have ended the modding beta shifted more towards testing and providing feedback on the modding tools in Cities: Skylines II. Currently, the modding beta is testing the Cities: Skylines II Editor, which we'll dig into in the next development diary.
Greetings everyone. We have a new mini-series of development diaries as we count down to the release of Cities: Skylines II. In this series, we take you behind the scenes of development sharing some of our processes and philosophy behind certain features as well as give you a sneak peek at our plans for the future.

To start with, we’re going to talk about modding in Cities: Skylines II. While modding isn’t supported at release, we want to share what modding means to us and how we approach modding support, so you know what to expect. Modding in Cities: Skylines played an important part in making the game a success, so it was obvious to us that Cities: Skylines II also has to be moddable, and we can't wait to see what the modders come up with this time around!


MODDING IN OUR GAMES
Our journey with modding started in a somewhat unexpected way with our first game, Cities in Motion. Back then, we hadn’t initially planned extensive modding support, but as the game used our own technology and was very accessible to players, a modding community grew surrounding the game. While not intentional we soon discovered how much modding can add to a game with players customizing their gameplay experience, creating and sharing content with each other.

We carried that lesson forward to Cities in Motion 2, though it wasn’t until Cities: Skylines that we really realized the full potential of supporting modding. As we were developing the game, we had one of our two programmers focus on creating tools to mod the game. When Cities: Skylines was released, we had a map editor, that let you create your own maps to build cities on, and an asset editor to import custom 3D models to the game. These, along with code mods, could then be shared on the Steam Workshop and downloaded by others. Through the years we expanded the capabilities of the asset editor to include more options, and as map themes and scenarios were added to the game, we included editors to make your very own.

Today, the Cities: Skylines Workshop has over 400,000 mods with everything from maps and themes to buildings and code mods changing the rules of the game. We were absolutely blown away by the creativity and dedication of our modding community, and throughout the game’s lifetime, we have continued to improve how we interact with the modders.

View attachment 1031557
The built-in editor and easy sharing through the Steam Workshop brought more modding opportunities to Cities: Skylines than our previous games had.

CITIES SKYLINES II
When we started developing Cities: Skylines II, we knew we wanted the game to support modding as much as its predecessor did. In 2019, as part of our 10-year anniversary celebration, we invited a group of prominent modders to Tampere to help us determine how we can best support their modding efforts. We introduced them to the features Cities: Skylines II would come to include, as well as the level of detail and realism of its art style. We discussed their experiences modding Cities: Skylines and they provided great feedback on how we could support the community in Cities: Skylines II. As an example, our map creators expressed a wish to be able to create taller mountains and deeper valleys, and as you may have seen from our Maps & Themes development diary, this is possible in Cities: Skylines II.

We support modding to celebrate the community and we want everyone to be able to take part in it. This is the reason why we focus on making sure that the modding tools are available on all possible platforms while respecting the limitations that individual platforms may have. To offer the same content for all the players we have chosen Paradox Mods as our portal for sharing your amazing creations across all platforms.

View attachment 1031558
Access the Editor and Paradox Mods directly from the main menu


MODDING BETA
We have always tried to offer as much support for the modders as possible and the modding beta was created for Cities: Skylines as a part of our efforts. The purpose of this was to ensure the modders could prepare updates for mods that might break with game updates. Having the opportunity to access the upcoming builds prior to release provided them time to familiarize themselves with the changes and work on and test updates to their mods.

As the Cities: Skylines Modding community grew, this group was expanded to include asset creators and its purpose expanded to provide direct feedback on the modding tools. The beta gave us the opportunity to get feedback on the road editor before it was released to the public and have direct conversations with our modders about what improvements to the game’s API would be useful to them.

As the updates for Cities: Skylines have ended the modding beta shifted more towards testing and providing feedback on the modding tools in Cities: Skylines II. Currently, the modding beta is testing the Cities: Skylines II Editor, which we'll dig into in the next development diary.


The key takeaway for the community should be to examine what you guys are actually saying when you say "there are no plans to charge for mods or assets"


Not having plans to do something doesn't mean that thing will not happen.

You've used extremely deceitful language to cover the fact that plans to charge for mods and assets can be introduced at a later date - by which time it will be too late for players to refund their purchase.

I've seen this kind of language from businesses before, across all industries, and sooner or later the thing they had "no plans" for ended up happening anyway.

You've embargoed content creators with early access from discussing performance issues (another deceitful action) despite the rising concerns from people who have pre-ordered the game regarding the ever increasing minimum and recommended specs.


All in all, over the past couple of weeks, you've lost a huge amount of goodwill from a community that adored you and your products.
You've alienated a huge proportion of the people on which you depend for income, which in business is crippling, if not fatal.


I've refunded my pre-order because I won't give my money to an organisation behaving in such a sneaky and dishonest manner, combined with your dismissal of the valid concerns of many customers.


Just look at what happened to Creative Assembly and the Total War games when the developers and publisher went ahead with their derided plans for Pharaoh, despite community opposition. Their latest effort doesn't even manage a five-figure concurrent player count, snd its only just been released. This could well happen to you, too, if you don't listen to your player base.

I hope you do listen and make changes to your plans, because right now, you've got a real problem on your hands & no amount of PR will help after a certain point.
 
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Not having plans to do something doesn't mean that thing will not happen.

You've used extremely deceitful language to cover the fact that plans to charge for mods and assets can be introduced at a later date - by which time it will be too late for players to refund their purchase.

I've seen this kind of language from businesses before, across all industries, and sooner or later the thing they had "no plans" for ended up happening anyway.
Oh yes, "no plans" is a red flag in marketing/corporate speak, it pretty much means the opposite of what you want or don't want to happen.

Players want something: "no plans" = "We will never do this, but we want to sound like the door is open in the future (even though it isn't)."
Players don't want something: "no plans" = "This will 100% happen after enough time has passed. Plans change after all."
 
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Right...
Can Colossal Order or Paradox clarify one thing because that's being ignored all the time:

If mods and assets on Paradox platform are downladed manually only, and being updated manually only (meaning whenever you remember and have time to check that, you as a gamer and a customer, will have to scroll through hundreds, if not thousands of mod/asset pages, trying to remember if they are those that you have downloaded, check when the last time you have updated was, compare the files and so on) as it is now with other Paradox games (Europa Universalis for example), is it going to be the same experience for Citites Skylines 2 or have you prepared something different. And by different i mean at least as convenient as Steam workshop or better still.
Because so far it's an basolute No for the game. And It's another 8 years waiting for CS 3 to come out to see if any better decision is gonna be made.
Some of your questions are misinformed; see the new FAQ:
 
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