CK2 Dev Diary #104 - Forging a Bloodline

[Keizer Harm]

It's more an issue of how they're started. Rather than calling them agnatic/patrilineal or enatic/matrilineal, I'm going to call them primary (inherited from dynastic parent) and secondary bloodlines (inherited from non-dynastic parent) since it's otherwise rather confusing. If virtually every bloodline that's created in the game, and most of those that pre-exist, are primary bloodlines, including all those founded by female rulers in all realms then there's no real problem. It's all just confusion over the naming scheme.

On the other hand, if currently any bloodline started by a woman is a secondary bloodline, then there's a problem. Especially since she most likely won't be able to pass on that bloodline as all her children are likely to be of her dynasty. That is, unless she was a landed ruler in a regular marriage which would soon lead to a game over unless the realm is elective or seniority. This would be a serious annoyance in cognatic realms if there's a 50% chance you can't make a lasting bloodline and outright gamebreaking in enatic realms.

Honestly, I'm not really sure there's much point in allowing women to found secondary bloodlines. The best scenario for such a thing happening is during a queen-regency, not while the woman herself is a ruler, or in an Isabella of Spain situation where the parents are unifying two kingdoms. Unfortunately the game doesn't really support mechanical situations to make such bloodline founding situations interesting or likely. In most circumstances the founding parent is almost certain to be the dynastic parent.

The only other situation I can see it being sensible to have separate primary and secondary bloodlines is if it takes the succession law into account. So in agnatic/agnatic-cognatic realms women found secondary bloodlines. In enatic/enatic-cognatic realms men found secondary bloodlines. Finally in cognatic realms, no one founds secondary bloodlines.

Your primary/secondary terms confuse me even more. What kind of bloodline could be inherited from a non-dynastic parent?

 

[Griff Lancer]

Say you win 7 or 8 wars and then have 15 years of peace. Do you get a merged “Warmonger/Peacemaker” bloodline?

This is a good question

 

[faiuwle]

Based on the screenshots, I think the "X years of peace" bloodline is more about prosperity and gives bonuses to revolt risk and taxes. No reason you couldn't be known as both a warrior and a ruler who maintained a prosperous realm.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Your primary/secondary terms confuse me even more. What kind of bloodline could be inherited from a non-dynastic parent?

By dynastic parent, I mean the one you're getting your dynasty from. So in a regular marriage the dynastic parent is the father. In a matrilineal marriage the dynastic parent is the mother.

 

[Mouthwash]

5000 prestige seems way too low for me. Usually I have that by the second or third descendant.

 

[Unready]

Eh, no, not enough special an occurrence.

Creating own empire IMHO far more special than building 10 random cities in own provinces or 30 years of doing nothing.

 

[Keizer Harm]

By dynastic parent, I mean the one you're getting your dynasty from. So in a regular marriage the dynastic parent is the father. In a matrilineal marriage the dynastic parent is the mother.

I still don't know what you mean with primary and secondary bloodlines, but here is how I think bloodlines work in this DLC, from what I have gathered:

One thing I will agree with is that the system is confusing as hell.

 

[Ramidel]

Hybrid bloodline I must test: Win 8 wars, execute 15 prisoners.

BLOOD AND SOULS FOR MY LORD ARIOCH!

Speaking of blood and souls, do sacrifices to bloodthirsty gods count as executed?

 

[TheDarkMaster]

I still don't know what you mean with primary and secondary bloodlines, but here is how I think bloodlines work in this DLC, from what I have gathered:
View attachment 410672

One thing I will agree with is that the system is confusing as hell.

The sex of the child doesn't matter. If the bloodline is agnatic, then it passes from the father to ALL their children if the children are born from a regular marriage OR from a mother in a matrilineal marriage. So agnatic bloodlines essentially pass along with the dynasty name, which is why I called them primary. The primary bloodline will NOT be passed on by a mother in a regular marriage, so the natural assumption is that fathers also do NOT pass on their primary bloodlines to children born in a matrilineal marriage.

This seems to imply that you generally will only have two bloodlines on a character. One passed from the father and one passed from the mother. Unless the children marry one another, the next generation will always lose one of those two bloodlines. Assuming that it's impossible for someone to create a bloodline when they already have one.

 

[neutrondecay]

It says that in a matriliear marriage they inherit Patrilineal bloodlines from their mother and Matrilineal ones from their father. If both parents have Patrilineal bloodlines their children should only inherit their mother's. I hope that I'm wrong, but that's how me and some others understand this. It would be good if we could get some clarification form the Devs.

It says that that happens in addition to normal bloodline inheritance, so it appears that all children of a matrilineal marriage inherit all the bloodlines of both parents.

I still don't know what you mean with primary and secondary bloodlines, but here is how I think bloodlines work in this DLC, from what I have gathered:
View attachment 410672
One thing I will agree with is that the system is confusing as hell.

I don't think the diagram is right. It's not that sons inherit bloodlines from their fathers and daughters from their mothers. It's that women don't pass on agnatic bloodlines at all, and men don't pass on enatic bloodlines at all, except under the circumstances described in the rules box: in a matrilineal marriage, or if a woman has a child with no known father.

nd

 

[Keizer Harm]

So... it works like this then?

 

[neutrondecay]

So... it works like this then?
View attachment 410675

No, the mother's enatic line should always pass to her child.

nd

 

[Keizer Harm]

No, the mother's enatic line should always pass to her child.

nd

Does that mean that, in a bloodline without matri-transfer, there is no difference between a regular and a matri-marriage when it comes to bloodlines?

 

[neutrondecay]

Does that mean that, in a bloodline without matri-transfer, there is no difference between a regular and a matri-marriage when it comes to bloodlines?

That's the bit I don't know; I don't know if the matri-transfer rule applies to all bloodlines (as implied by the wording of the rules box) or only ones specially flagged (as some of us thought from the layout of icons in the bloodline box).

nd

 

[Oorlog]

I love how there is more to bloodlines than some extra modifiers, given that some have related events. With all these changes to the game mechanics it feels more and more like CK2 2.0

 

[Willem IV]

I do fear that there will be too many bloodlines, which makes them less attractive.

 

[Elden]

I'd rather bloodlines passed both ways as a rule rather than an exception. Collecting many would be part of the fun!

 

[Oorlog]

I'd rather bloodlines passed both ways as a rule rather than an exception. Collecting many would be part of the fun!

I do fear that there will be too many bloodlines, which makes them less attractive.

I sure hope they wont make it too easy (nor too difficult) to either keep or lose one. Ideally over the game's time span you would be able to collect more, as some noble house in history.

 

[Keizer Harm]

This is how I personally would have implemented bloodline inheritance rules - dividing bloodlines, aside from gender, in two categories.

Persnickety bloodlines:

• Males always pass agnatic bloodlines to their sons.
• Females always pass enatic bloodlines to their daughters.
• The dominant party in marriage passes the bloodline of their respective gender to all of their children.

Lackadaisical bloodlines:

• Males always pass agnatic bloodlines, to all of their children.
• Females always pass enatic bloodlines, to all of their children.
• The dominant party in marriage passes any bloodline to all of their children.

For children that would otherwise not inherit a bloodline, they can inherit it all the same, IF:

• AND
  • They are still younger than 20.
  • They have not yet ruled for 10 years.
  • They have at least two personality traits in common with the bloodline founder, as well as the same education.
• Then they have a 50% chance of inheriting that bloodline.
• They or their ruling parent can improve their odds by spending prestige.

But added with that comes a bloodline decay mechanic. Its rules being:

• Starting from the third generation after the founder:
• If the person OR:
  • Is unlanded, as well as the child of unlanded parents
  • Does not have a single personality trait OR education in common with the founder of the bloodline
  • Has negative prestige
• Then they have a 50% chance to lose that bloodline.
• They can get a chance of keeping it by spending prestige.
• Lackadaisical bloodlines decay at twice the rate.

So, persnickety bloodlines would be very hard to keep in the family after switching genders - unless you specifically educate them that way. Let's say, if you have a persnickety William Wallace bloodline, and a daughter heir - educate that daughter with martial, and she has better odds of keeping the bloodline.

Maybe I will try to mod something like this. I just feel like some of these rules make little sense.

 

[Oorlog]

I'd like to see that if a daughter, that cant pass on a bloodline, gives extra prestige to the one she marries because of the bloodline, while the spouse might try to gain the bloodline for his children.