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CK2 Dev Diary#27: Continued Converter Capabilities

Hello and welcome back to this second part about the Converter update which will be released tomorrow.

As I mentioned in the replies last week, Immortal rulers from CK2 now get the Immortal Ruler Personality in EU4 and will not die of old age. You can also pick “Immortal” in the EU4 Nation Designer, although it is rather expensive. Rulers cannot become Immortal during gameplay in EU4 though.

Ideas for European Tribals - because before every tribal country got standard, boring ideas. Now they can become fearsome warriors!
european_tribal_ideas = {

start = {

hostile_attrition = 1

merchants = 1

}

bonus = { war_exhaustion_cost = -0.10 }

trigger = {

capital_scope = {

continent = europe

}

OR = {

government = tribal_despotism

government = tribal_kingdom

government = tribal_federation

government = tribal_democracy

}

}

free = yes


deep_roots = {

defensiveness = 0.1

}

warriors_grit = {

shock_damage_received = -0.1

}

ruthless_raiders = {

leader_land_shock = 1

loot_amount = 0.10

}

ancestral_pride = {

war_exhaustion_cost = -0.10

}

arctolatry = {

infantry_power = 0.1

}

side_by_side = {

land_morale = 0.1

}

hero_of_the_legends = {

free_leader_pool = 1

}

}

Improved religions: Now is a better time than ever to convert over your favorite heresy. All converted religions have received new effects, new unique graphical icons and also make use of religious systems such as Fervor and Aspects. Some effort has been made to update the EU4 events to account for these new religions by checking for the religion rules rather than the specific religion where it makes sense. E.g. checking for fervor rather than Reformed for fervor events.
new converter religions.png


That covers the largest Converter changes, but there have been plenty of little fixes and tweaks which you can read about below:
Functionality has been added to adopt your EU4 game to the status of your CK2 one in matters such as dynamic provincial development, government ranks, making the CK2 heresies and religions use the new religion features of EU. Time has also been spent to fix old issues like missing flags for rebels, errors in province mappings, and missing descriptions for the converter religions.

Patch notes
Unit types are now based on capital region instead of tech. group
Display "CONVERTING" while converting
Doesn't add Aztecs if Aztec Invasion game rule is set to off
Addes female monarch names for converter countries
Added descs for the Manichean and Mazdaki religions
Added the suggested missing titles
Added some more country mappings.
Added some regions to the unit type conversion table.
Government ranks are now affected by imperial administration laws
Added normal_or_historical_nations flag set to no in the mod file
Updated the sunset invasion scenario.
EU4 converter now converts prosperity (by redistributing the prosperity value according to number of buildings in CK2 provinces)
All cores from unused nations are now properly removed
Removed unused files
Fixed issue with duplicate Saxon cultures
Alan is now in the correct culture group
Fixed Minor National Idea issues (from the CK2 Forum Compilation Thread)
Fixed minor issues with religions
Fixed some errors in coverter province table.
High americans now have their own units
Rome now becomes the capital when converting the Roman Empire
Added European Tribal national ideas.
Gave Mongol empire less crazy province setup
Added some high american missions
Removed some duplicate strings.
United HRE can now be created with Conclave enabled
Removed extra files from the Roman Empire and some other things that are part of EU4 as well since a while back.
Added Rebel Entries (and flags) for All Heresies
Converter Religions and Heresies will now have more diverse bonuses and more will use EU4 mechanics when possible.
All Converter Religions and Heresies will now have a syncretic faith bonus.
Added institution spread criteria specific to converter games.
Added starting spread of feudalism criteria specific to converter games.
Mapped some CK2 things (heresies among others) to slightly different tags in EU4 to avoid collisions with similarly named things in EU4.
Immortal trait now converted to Immortal ruler personality
Muslims now get Vassals instead of only Personal Unions
Ruler birth dates for CK2 games later than EU4 start date are now also changed to match that date
Exported nations now always have a minimum of five female monarch names Messalian and Cathar countries can now get female leaders.
Dynamic fort placement in CK2->EU4 converted games.
Moved culture graphics conversion to culture_gfx_table.csv from the code.
Fixed some religion conversion issues in the EU4 converter
The HRE main religion will now get set to the Emperor's religion if the starting bookmark has it different from the religion database, as well as setting religious peace enabled.
Added uses_church_aspects trigger. - Added uses_fervor trigger. - Added uses_patriarch_authority trigger. - Added uses_piety trigger. - Added uses_papacy trigger. - Added uses_blessings trigger. - Added uses_karma trigger. - Added uses_syncretic_faiths trigger. Added uses_cults trigger. - Added uses_personal_deities trigger.
Replaced some religion event triggers with the new triggers added by Marko. I have been pretty restrictive and only done this to events that could actually benefit from it.
CKII->EUIV Converter: Converted countries that used to have default national ideas now have custom ideas.

As well as the Converter, we'll also release the full version of 2.6.2 tomorrow. We managed to fix the performance problem we had during the beta, fix a few minor bugs, correct the province name box length update some French and German localisation, and add a popup and pause setting to Call to Arms. We'll post the complete patch notes tomorrow when the patch goes live.

That’s all for now, we hope you enjoy the updated Converter when it is released tomorrow! And in the meantime, don't miss today's Medieval Monday livestream with Emil and Steven - 16:00CEST on https://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive
 
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Rome is the One True Capital

Regardless maybe there should be a one time decision in game to move the capital to Constantinople, or maybe it makes an event pop up with "Where do you want the capital?" with the two cities as choices
 
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Atlantians said:
How about you not insult the Devs, K?

Disrespectful posts like yours do not add to the conversation.
Click to expand...
You are right, I phrased it poorly their decision was stupid they are obviously not stupid themselves. That said I do nt belive a decision that makes things worse can be called anything but stupid, though you may prefer foolish, or dumb instead.
The changes to the converter was one of the best things about conclave I am just sad and dissappointed to see them removed again, and it is a pattern I see way to often here, they do somehting great and then because it inconveniences people WC they are soon forced to go back on what was originally a great decision of game design. No I don't blame the devs I blame the whining childen to cry and cry until they get their way despite paradox's devs knowing better.
 
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Zhetone said:
Rome is the One True Capital

Regardless maybe there should be a one time decision in game to move the capital to Constantinople, or maybe it makes an event pop up with "Where do you want the capital?" with the two cities as choices
Click to expand...

It should convert the game with your capital from CKII, and give you the option of 'repopulating and expanding Rome' by moving the capital there, resulting in a large loss in Development in the old province and a small gain in development in Rome, with a net development loss overall, but a modifier that temporarily reduces development cost in Roma.
 
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TheDungen said:
You are right, I phrased it poorly their decision was stupid they are obviously not stupid themselves.
Click to expand...

Well, that is better, lol.

But they had good reasons for their decision, and have left it open for mods.

I think they found a good balance, personally.
 
Atlantians said:
It should convert the game with your capital from CKII, and give you the option of 'repopulating and expanding Rome' by moving the capital there, resulting in a large loss in Development in the old province and a small gain in development in Rome, with a net development loss overall, but a modifier that temporarily reduces development cost in Roma.
Click to expand...
Yeah maybe! A bit of a mix of our original ideas.
 
rageair said:
There's no good way of giving a nation more than 3 vassals in EU4, each vassal takes up a diplomatic slot, and starting a nation off with more diplo slots than they have would just make the game boring. In any case, it's super easy to mod if you want to increase the number of vassals for your game.
Click to expand...
Is that so? How do you mod the converter?
Also yes there is the reformed HRE can have more vassals without them costing any relationship slot. Which proves that such mechanics exist you just need to use them.

rageair said:
Only if they're a massive monocultural/monoreligious blob in CK2. Hordes aren't as powerful in EU4 as in CK2 (especially as time passes), when we experimented with giving them lots of vassals they immediately imploded without a chance of recovery. With the added direct vassal cores they still have a fairly big chance of breaking up, though it's not as deterministic.
Click to expand...
They're nomads! They are always massive monocultural blobs in ck2! Yeah I know that is the root of the problem but still.
And them imploding beyond hope of recovery is pretty much what happened in reality, not just with the mongol but with every steppe people who for a short while held dominion over the steppes. While it should not be unavoidable it should be hard to keep it from happening not something that happens in 1/10 games. And what does vassal cores even matter it's not like the EU4 AI ever release things in peacedeals. And rebels very rarely destroy big blobs. The only way a blob dies in EU4 is by being eaten by another bigger blob which makes the blobbiness of the map worse not better. The converter is a great way to reduce that. It's not like the map won't be horribly blobby at the end of eu4 anyway. At least that way you'd still have enough powers left in the world to get a full set up powerful and secondary nations when converting on to vic.

rageair said:
In any case, we had some ideas on having options to break up massive nations/cultures/etc, but we're saving that for the future.
Click to expand...
Sorry if i'm not doign any cartwheels, I know what will happen you will implement them and it will be great for a month until the whining makes you remove or nerf those measures again.

Atlantians said:
On the issue of giant mono-religious mono-cultural blobs, my current 2.4.5 Roman Empire game has a Greek Roman Empire and has its capital in Constantinople as the 'new Rome'.

It is there for all sorts of flavor, strategic, tactical, and economic reasons.

In the opening post, you stated that Rome will be the Capital of a Converted Rome.

Is that definitive? Will I have to edit the converted game in order to relocate my capital from Roma and back to Constaninople where it belongs?
Click to expand...
Just move it when you start your EU4 game? You're not playing ironman anyway you you can just pay for the cost by console.

Atlantians said:
But they had good reasons for their decision, and have left it open for mods.
Click to expand...
Not really and we'll see about that.


Atlantians said:
I think they found a good balance, personally.
Click to expand...
No they didn't. Not even close. Let's at least hope they smack estates on most of you provinces and super high autonomy (perhaps based on your centralization law). Maybe then we'll actually see something beyond the super big blobs getting even bigger. Otherwise I feat that the only converted game that will be meaningful will continue to b the HRE.
 
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Servancour said:
Generally, the idea is the following:
If you qualify for a set of special ideas, like Byzantine ideas, you will always get those. Cause those are usually fun to get.
Most EU4 ideas are no longer set to a specific tag. Instead, it will trigger according to your culture instead. So if you play as a Sunni Spain, you won't get Spanish ideas, yet if you are a big enough England with English culture, you'll get English ideas. We also disabled a set of several very specific ideas in the converter, like Burgundian ideas for example.
Everyone else will more or less get randomized ideas. The existing ideas are all weighted, so the ideas you'll get will depend on the nation itself. You won't be getting any naval ideas if you don't have any ports for example.

I hope that answers your question. :)
Click to expand...

What ideas would an Empire of Scandinavia with Sweden as the Emperor's personal kingdom get? Would they get the not overpowered Swedish ideas? The same goes for other ideas for the region.

Metz said:
Would you separate the Norse from Germanic religions so that it is easier to reform for the Saxons and other north German peoples? It's kind of strange having needing to expand deep into Scandinavia to be able to reform. Being close to the Franks, the Saxons should be able to learn how to organize their religion quicker and should do so by having provinces nearby. This way Norse can reform using Scandinavian only provinces as well without expanding into the rest of the continent.
Click to expand...

Conquer Zeeland and that Danish island. Then raid the heck out of the Irish and Scottish/Pictish tribal. Get piety then you can reform. No need to venture into Sweden or Norway.

TheDungen said:
No I don't blame the devs I blame the whining childen to cry and cry until they get their way despite paradox's devs knowing better.
Click to expand...

The developers are, presumably, fully realized adults that can make tgeir own decisions. The decision is theirs and theirs alone. You don't blame children for parents giving into them. You blame the parents for being weak.
 
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Will more information arrive regarding the new features for the heretics (such as which get the reformed mechanics)?
 
Xinkc said:
What ideas would an Empire of Scandinavia with Sweden as their personal kingdom get? Would they get the not overpowered Swedish ideas? The same goes for other ideas for the region.



Conquer Zeeland and that Danish island. Then raid the heck out of the Irish and Scottish/Pictish tribal. Get piety then you can reform. No need to venture into Sweden or Norway.



The developers are, presumably, fully realized adults that can make tgeir own decisions. The decision is theirs and theirs alone. You don't blame children for parents giving into them. You blame the parents for being weak.
Click to expand...
Well this isn't a parent-child relationship but a customer-service one, and contrary to what some people advocate the customer is not always right. Sometimes a business has to make unpopular choices to improve their product. The fact that Paradox keeps trying to make them shows that they realize this.
 
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TheDungen said:
Sorry if i'm not doign any cartwheels, I know what will happen you will implement them and it will be great for a month until the whining makes you remove or nerf those measures again.
Click to expand...

Isn't the current setup more of a side effect rather than a concious desicion? That would be rather different than if they make some deliberate changes.
 
Caspoi said:
Isn't the current setup more of a side effect rather than a concious desicion? That would be rather different than if they make some deliberate changes.
Click to expand...
What current setup is "a side effect rather than a conscious decision"? And I was referring to things in general. defensive pacts in CK2 coalitions and corruption in eu4, all these things started out awesomely and then got nerfed to oblivion so that people could have their totally unrealistic world conquests.
 
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TheDungen said:
What current setup is "a side effect rather than a conscious decision"? And I was referring to things in general. defensive pacts in CK2 coalitions and corruption in eu4, all these things started out awesomely and then got nerfed to oblivion so that people could have their totally unrealistic world conquests.
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The one where realms can get an extremely high amount of vassals.
 
rageair said:
There's no good way of giving a nation more than 3 vassals in EU4, each vassal takes up a diplomatic slot, and starting a nation off with more diplo slots than they have would just make the game boring. In any case, it's super easy to mod if you want to increase the number of vassals for your game.
Click to expand...

Only two feasible ways to simulate more vassals in EU4. Besides filling up their relationship slots with vassals, you would have to give away a crippling amount of land to estates to mechanically represent a decentralized nation that needs to rip territory away from nobility to get stronger. If you were feeling particularly harsh, a state with complete adherence to the will of the council would start with the Aristocratic Coup disaster already active with the government set to noble republic.

The other way to represent what this person is asking for is beyond EU4's current technical limitations. It would require the existence of mulitple HREs with each large uncentralized feudal state converting into one and having to reform in the same way the HRE does in EU4 because Vassal's in CK2 actually kind of function like the HRE does in EU4 which I'm sure is the point.
 
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Caspoi said:
The one where realms can get an extremely high amount of vassals.
Click to expand...
Why would that be a side effect rather than a conscious decision? They obviously made it so that realms don't get vassals if they are absolute.


Donelloth said:
Only two feasible ways to simulate more vassals in EU4. Besides filling up their relationship slots with vassals, you would have to give away a crippling amount of land to estates to mechanically represent a decentralized nation that needs to rip territory away from nobility to get stronger. If you were feeling particularly harsh, a state with complete adherence to the will of the council would start with the Aristocratic Coup disaster already active with the government set to noble republic.

The other way to represent what this person is asking for is beyond EU4's current technical limitations. It would require the existence of mulitple HREs with each large uncentralized feudal state converting into one and having to reform in the same way the HRE does in EU4 because Vassal's in CK2 actually kind of function like the HRE does in EU4 which I'm sure is the point.
Click to expand...
I can get behind that, EU4 need a mechanic beyond the HRE one to simulate the strive towards centralisation in it's era.
But in the interi they could make them special vassals that do not take a relationship sot like the HRE ones after removing the priviligia. In the long term it may be worth considering if vassals staking up diplo slots is really the best way to make sure people eventually annex them.
 
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TheDungen said:
Why would that be a side effect rather than a conscious decision? They obviously made it so that realms don't get vassals if they are absolute.



I can get behind that, EU4 need a mechanic beyond the HRE one to simulate the strive towards centralisation in it's era.
Click to expand...

Not that they get vassals, but the amount of vassals that they get. I can understand why they did not desire that as the only country in standard EUIV that has a very high amount of vassals is Japan, which has a special government form just for that purpose.
 
Caspoi said:
Not that they get vassals, but the amount of vassals that they get. I can understand why they did not desire that as the only country in standard EUIV that has a very high amount of vassals is Japan, which has a special government form just for that purpose.
Click to expand...
France used to have vassals like that Poland still has a few. Russia has some, Spain and Russia start divided. most countries in the vanilla set up are slightly fractured.
 
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rageair said:
There is a misconception that there was an issue here, it's just that with Conclave you got more vassals by design. With the mentioned Direct Vassal Cores we thought this was no longer necessary though, so after this patch you'll get way fewer vassals than you used to. 3 at most, 0 at the least.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. That sounds more manageable, especially for the AI (which has always been my main concern).
 
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BFKelleher said:
Can you guys list the religions depicted in these icons going left to right? I know we got a few of them answered, but I'd just like to know all of them for sure.
Click to expand...

index.php

Nestorian (Could be Messalian)
Manichean
Messalian (Could be nestorian)
Cathar
Fractelli
Waldesian
Lollard
Monophysite
Paulican
Monthelite
Iconoclasm
Bogolomist
Zunism
No idea (Some muslim heresy)
Druze
No idea (Some muslim heresy)
Mazdaki
Yazidism
Hurufi
Samaritan (Could be Karite)
Karaite (Could be Samaritan)

We're still missing Zikri and Kharijite.
One of these (assuming we are right on the current list) is the moon and star over a mountain and one is a red sunni symbol. It's the two only symbols with the crescent moon.
 
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