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CK2 Dev Diary #34: Facts about Artifacts, Real talk about Relics

Hello all, it’s been a while, but it’s my turn to write a Dev Diary again! Today I’m going to tell you about the Treasury system we’re adding in 2.7. This system itself is part of the free patch. However, a lot of the content for it is part of Monks and Mystics.

The Treasury is where characters store their items, such as weapons, artifacts, or holy relics. In many ways items are much like Character Modifiers which you are likely already familiar with, but Character Modifiers are a fairly limited and not entirely clear system. With the new Treasury system we have greater control over how they work and when they are active as well as more UI space to display and explain them. Not only that, this system allows items to be inheritable and stealable.

We hope that seeing your character’s items as physical object rather than just a number on their character sheet will offer greater immersion, especially for player who like to focus on role-playing. Sure, in the past you could find a nice axe to increase your personal combat skill, but it was just another number - now you’ll see a gleaming axe, ready to hew the limbs from your foes!
artifacts_example_isolated.png

this is not quite final artwork, but it should be similar to what we end up with

As an example, say your Character has found the Holy Grail - you will now see the Grail in your Treasury with a picture and a description as well as the effects of owning it. Further, if some Norseman comes along and raids your castle, there’s a chance that he’ll make off with your precious Grail - however, since he’s not a Christian your most holy relic is nothing more than a fancy cup to him.

As mentioned, items are also inheritable, they all go to a character’s primary heir. In the event someone dies without an heir, the items will pass to their liege if they have one, but they have a chance of being lost in the process. If an independant character dies without heirs, their items are lost - although if time permits we have talked about them having a chance to be snapped up by powerful vassals.

For 2.7 we’re converting several character modifiers into items, such as the +1 axe you might find while raiding, the saint’s bones you might find on a pilgrimage, or the trophy you made from the skull of your rival. With Monks and Mystics we’re adding a lot more, such as:
  • Commissioning swords from skilled smiths.
  • Buying fabulous Crown Jewels.
  • Hunting for Holy Artifacts.
As well as the items you can find or make while playing, we have also added a system to place some Artifacts into character’s Treasuries when a new game is started. These are mostly placed at random to keep things interesting, but there are also a few historical artifacts given to famous characters.
Paradox_CK2_TreasureChamber_big_v02.jpg
 
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Reburial was a common practice in medieval Christian Europe. This is usually when relics were harvested from the deceased Saint. I could see this easily being modeled along with a simple canonization system.
 
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This stuff is neat. Does this mean Magnus III of Norway will get the sword Legbiter though? That'd be awesome and amusing.

EDIT: Wonder if any of the legendary weapons from myths will show up too.
 
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It's really rather incredible to introduce items/relics and not let you sell them. The economy of simony was massive, and the buying, selling and manufacturing of relics are of vital importance if relics are to be included in the first place.

Relics should be placed in specific holdings (churches most likely) and increase income of said holding due to an influx of pilgrims. Maybe even a trade route like feature improving wealth on the road to the site of the pilgrimage.

Forgeries should also run great risks of being discovered as such. This should be dependent on distance to the "real" relic or nearest forgery. It should also be tied in to the moral authority of the religion: finding/forging a relic should grant authority, losing a relic should erode the authority, and worse a relic being discovered as a fraud should devastate authority, possibly excommunicate its holder an increase revolt risks as angry pilgrims don't enjoy being fooled. And if Artsruni's castle with hundreds of heads all belonging to John the Baptist, well...


Another possible (although unlikely) addition would be custom pilgrimages and holy sites. If the temple of Lund holds the spear of Longinus and the holy grail for half a century, surely pilgrims would flock there and eventually it'd be considered a place of special importance to the religion?
 
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Is there a way to scope to the original owner, or if an item was created to its creator? I ask so we can do dynamic naming like, "Legendary Sword of X" where X was the first owner, or the crafter and have the name remain the same? I am thinking for warhammer and our crafting system, being able to give a name to an item would be quite helpful, especially with relation to a way for a sword to kinda gain a legend based on where it was created.

If it is anything like traits, you should be able to do that with global event targets.
 
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CK2 is not a historical simulator, nor is any other PDS product. I'm pretty sure it was Johan himself that once pointed this out to everyone. CK2 is a video game before anything else. The development team should certainly be focused on making it more fun as a game. More RPG mechanics takes the game in a direction that involves more player agency and more rewards for playing well. I believe this is a really positive direction and the people wanting it to be a historical simulator are fooling themselves, sorry.
 
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Would there be any likelihood of rare event chains giving the previously 'mundane' items of exceptionally prestigious characters legendary features? Say a norseman succeeds in a prepared invasion of the Abbasids and forms an empire stretching from Egypt to India, dies with 17,000 prestige and the dread viking trait at the ripe old age of 87 in battle against the dreaded Mongol menace. Any chance his axe becomes a lot more valuable than it was when Erik the Blind forged it on a goat's back?
 
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will this be modable to allow for the amount of objects availible in your treasury? or will we be able to create separate treasuries (like say a person has an armory and a treasury?)

if so this is just the piece i need. i really want to make a mod that reflects the importance of library collections and copying
 
My question is probably unrelated to the Monks and Mystics expansion but has there ever been any consideration for doing more with ships? I really feel like naval warfare is totally neglected by the current Crusader Kings setup. It seems kinda silly to be able to raise hundreds of ships and have them do nothing to stop an incoming army that is about to invade your shores. In just about every game of crusader kings I have ever played I almost always have way more ships than I could ever use for transporting my army. Ships could also be used to set up trade routes or possibly some sort of naval bombardment.
 
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I shall collect all the pieces of the True Cross and come to the logical conclusion that Jesus was about 20 meters tall.
 
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+10000000000000000000000000000000000

CK2 would always at best be a weak and very odd RPG.

It used to be about medieval intrigue, dynasties, religion -- big picture stuff -- that created a wonderful framework for a rewarding strategy experience that spanned centuries. At some point issues like rebellion reworks, missing cadet branches, meaningful internal management, etc. just became completely overlooked and supplanted with vampires and +2 Swords of Striking.
Intrigue in CK2 only increased over time. And it increased quite a lot.
CK2 was always marketed as a mix of strategy and RPG elements.
This expansion adds RPG elements.
What's wrong with that?
 
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My question is probably unrelated to the Monks and Mystics expansion but has there ever been any consideration for doing more with ships? I really feel like naval warfare is totally neglected by the current Crusader Kings setup. It seems kinda silly to be able to raise hundreds of ships and have them do nothing to stop an incoming army that is about to invade your shores. In just about every game of crusader kings I have ever played I almost always have way more ships than I could ever use for transporting my army. Ships could also be used to set up trade routes or possibly some sort of naval bombardment.
Naval warfare would probably not be a positive addition to the game. In CK2, the countries with the most ships tend to be the ones with the most coastal provinces. Adding naval warfare to the game would result in things like the Fatimids in the 1066 start raising gigantic doom fleets that obliterate all of those little crusading counts who are trying to land with 5 ships holding their entire armies. The only way around that is a super arbitrary "brown people can't sail" modifier of some sort, just so Euro Christians can compete. This looks like a bad idea without even considering the other potential consequences, like some big Indian empire launching a massive doom fleet with 500 ships in it to attack Oman or something similarly ridiculous.

If you look at the waters in CK2, you'd see that the European things are very narrow. Unlike in EU4, there would be nowhere to hide from big enemy fleet on the prowl. For most AIs, the addition of naval warfare would exclude them from making use of ships at all, because their armies would just be drowned shortly after leaving port. I think the negatives far outweigh the gains in this specific case.
 
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CK2 would always at best be a weak and very odd RPG.

It used to be about medieval intrigue, dynasties, religion -- big picture stuff -- that created a wonderful framework for a rewarding strategy experience that spanned centuries.
When exactly?
 
I personally like the idea of displaying my family sword over the "fireplace," there is a lot of historical precedent for this addition. Those of you worried about the game being mired in RPG element need to recall that RPG's themselves were based historical elements (some only very loosely). Folks in the past did in fact use weapons and armor, it makes sense to have a place to store these items, and since these items would be immensely valuable at really any point in history, it also makes sense that they would be well cared for and preserved from owner to heir. This addition is a much missing element to the game, maybe not as big as the depth that reaper's due added but still significant. Finally, if Paradox's treasury still doesn't quite fit in with your concept of history, never fear! Some obsessive compulsive history-buff-of-a-programmer will write a mod to make the system "more historical."
 
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CK2 is not a historical simulator, nor is any other PDS product. I'm pretty sure it was Johan himself that once pointed this out to everyone. CK2 is a video game before anything else. The development team should certainly be focused on making it more fun as a game. More RPG mechanics takes the game in a direction that involves more player agency and more rewards for playing well. I believe this is a really positive direction and the people wanting it to be a historical simulator are fooling themselves, sorry.

Who said they wanted a historical simulator? I'd settle for a strategy game.

What player agency is there in any of this? It's just statpiles and virtual bling.
 
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Who said they wanted a historical simulator? I'd settle for a strategy game.

What player agency is there in any of this? It's just statpiles and virtual bling.
At least two people said they wanted historical simulators in this topic. I was trying to be polite by not calling anyone out, because this argument usually ends with demi-mods scolding people in yellow text.
 
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For Jewish characters it could be cool to find the priestly breastplate which were used by the high priest in the ancient Jewish temple. It could be granted to the High Priest and perhaps trigger other related events.
 
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