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CK2 Dev Diary #50: A Reason for War

Greetings!

The weather is slowly recovering from the chaotic mixture of snow/rain/hail/sun that has plagued the Swedish April and work is starting on the next, yet undisclosed, expansion! The next expansion is going to have a specific theme which most features will be focused around (we can unfortunately not go into any detail in this DD), though we also want to add some features that can be of use regardless of who or where you choose to play. One of these is planned to be a ‘Casus Belli Expansion’, where we want to add new and oft-requested CBs to the game. The Focus is going to be on CBs that enhance the early and late game (as well as a few more roleplay-focused CBs). While this is by no means a final list, it’s what we’ve made so far:


Forced Vassalization
This is a CB that can be used against neighboring realms to force them to become your vassal. To avoid making it too powerful it’s quite heavily limited, only realms that are of a lower tier, under 30 realm size and where the ruler is of either your culture group or religion are valid targets. It also has a direct cost (prestige). For example; this can allow England to, with time, extend ‘protection’ to the smaller Welsh and Irish realms.


De Jure Duchy Claim
This CB was added to try to avoid situations where massive realms would fight over one single county, essentially destroying their armies for near no gain. Players often think these types of wars aren’t worth fighting, and do not usually declare them themselves - instead they turn to Holy Wars or invite duchy claimants to expand in a more meaningful way. This CB provides interesting opportunity for conquest at the point where you form your first Kingdom or Empire. Any vassals present in conquered lands are preserved, and this CB also comes with a prestige cost.


Ducal County Conquest
At the very start of a game you might be stuck waiting for fabricated claims a very, very long time if you’re unlucky. This CB is available to Count and Duke tier characters, and allows you to go to war over any County that are part of a Duchy you hold land in, as long as the Duchy has no holder. The CB has a cost of prestige and gold, making it similar to a fabricated claim (as that’s essentially what it is). As an example, this gives count-tier characters in Ireland and the HRE an alternate way to claim a Duke-tier title, presuming that you can save up enough prestige and money.


Great Conquest
Unless you are playing as a Muslim, Nomad or Tribal-cultured ruler (who have access to invasions) you have no real way to expand in a meaningful way when you are playing as the ruler of a very large realm. While we still want expansion to be difficult, we also want to give players more static opportunities to expand. This CB is available to very powerful realms (at least 200 realm size) and can be used to claim an entire Kingdom from another character. Though the catch is that you have to fight someone that is as strong or stronger than you are, and using the CB itself costs a massive amount of prestige and piety.


Free Hostages
A long-requested CB, this allows you to go to war against a character in order to free any kidnapped concubines or wives, and release certain characters from prison (i.e. friends and dynastants). Rescued characters will, most often, be moved back to your court. It will also take hostages in turn, imprisoning a random close member of the target’s family!

It’s currently not possible to attack anyone who holds a close dynastic member in their prison (i.e. your child), is this something you’d like to see changed specifically for use with this CB? Otherwise it'll be of use primarily for freeing concubines (something that has been requested for a long time!).


Note that these CBs are by no means finished, and are currently being tested internally. Feel free to comment and feedback on them though, and also feel free to tell us what CBs you would like to see added!
 
@rageair Will we be able to choose who to rescue as part of the CB. Much like who we choose whose claim to press. Or will it be an all inclusive rescue all captives in X's prison?
I don't like that idea because if it is like the choose whose claim to press part than you are forced to only rescue 1 person which would be near pointless to go through a war for (like the current single county a time de-jure CB).
 
I don't like that idea because if it is like the choose whose claim to press part than you are forced to only rescue 1 person which would be near pointless to go through a war for (like the current single county a time de-jure CB).

If I am understanding you correctly, a nice fix to this would be the ability to only rescue one person if you wish, however there could also be a rescue all prisoners button too. Sort of like press all claims. Maybe a way to do this would be "Rescue Relatives/friends or whatever" and underneath this option could be "Rescue X". X being the one person option.
 
I'm honestly a bit scared of implementing new CBs (if not AI balanced enough) will turn my beloved CK2 to Europa Paintingversalis.
I really hope this new CBs and all its mechanics and their new resulting situations (multiple wars) get balanced and properly implemented before release and not afterwards.

The idea of a 'free hostages CB' sounds interesting, but one should have the option when declaring war which one/ones to free. Also this CB should instantly switch to a vengeance war, if target decides to execute demanded hostages,where you can gain some prestige, an opinion modifier to dynasty members and can imprison someone of target's dynasty.
 
So how does the Great Conquest work specifically? I'm guessing it will make reclaiming Anatolian land as Alexios in his start much easier, but how much stronger does the enemy have to be to be able to use it?
 
I actually don't know why everyone got excited about the de jure duchy claim... If it's de jure you can just invite a claimant and push his claim, you don't even have to land him, and voila, the new duke is your vassal.
 
M&M when it was released broke CKii record for the largest active monthly player base for the games lifespan, both cumulative and peak (which is amazing considering the game is almost old enough to have a childhood focus) and Paradox had very healthy Q1 fiscal results (despite not releasing any new titles) in part of that. So it wouldn't make sense to stop support of the game unless a super secret CKiii/Clausewitz 4 was nearing the PR/beta phase of it's development cycle.

Yes, but the developers might not want to keep developing it for personal reasons. They're humans too and get bored or tired of working on the same project over long periods of time.
 
This is another idea we're toying with, like the previously mentioned force conversion CB that Wuddel mentioned it's something that can't be used lightly though. It would have to require extremely specific circumstances, or only be presented through a scripted opportunity of some sort. Have you got any ideas on when such a CB would feel fair to use?

I could see this working if a ruler with:
1. Very high threat
2. Especially discontent vassals (perhaps tied in to the faction system)

Had a chance for an event to trigger for a random powerful vassal / most powerful discontent vassal / leader of the Independence faction in which the vassal goes to a same culture / same religion and similarly powerful nearby realm / coalition member and offers them a timed CB to dismantle the realm.

The occurrence of this can be toned down in a few ways, for example by requiring the vassal to also be a rival, requiring the vassal to hold a certain percentage of power within the realm, requiring the ruler to be excommunicated (making this a more potent version of that CB if additional conditions are fulfilled), having the ruler be engaged in some way by the vassal beforehand in an event and failing to accede to their demands.

Also possible - tie the availability to high council authority, and when the title is destroyed have all prior vassals be transferred to being tributaries instead. This would represent a slipping of ruler authority without the sudden jump from united realm to completely broken up. There might then be a special CB where the ruler can try to reclaim this land, alternatively it would make sense to have a new system for the diplomatic annexation of tributaries but that's a little outside the scope of CBs.
 
This is another idea we're toying with, like the previously mentioned force conversion CB that Wuddel mentioned it's something that can't be used lightly though. It would have to require extremely specific circumstances, or only be presented through a scripted opportunity of some sort. Have you got any ideas on when such a CB would feel fair to use?

This would make sense in a situation where the ruler in question has already lost a rebellion in the recent past (e.g. increase council power) and is now facing another large rebellion. That seems like the type of situation historically where the central title would simply become irrelevant and fall into disuse.

Would possibly also make sense if I have a de jure liege but I'm more powerful than him, I should be able to attack and force him to destroy that title – i.e. stop pretending to be my rightful liege!
 
Super late, but I think that for the free hostages CB, you should be able to target people who hold close relatives, but the target should (If cruel/wrothful/craven etc.) be allowed to execute those characaters to invalidate the CB.
 
Awesome stuff, @rageair, especially the De Jure Duchy CB (I've suggested that one myself!). Keep up the good work, and I hope the weather improves (it's been 70s and sunny where I live in North Carolina).
 
This is another idea we're toying with, like the previously mentioned force conversion CB that Wuddel mentioned it's something that can't be used lightly though. It would have to require extremely specific circumstances, or only be presented through a scripted opportunity of some sort. Have you got any ideas on when such a CB would feel fair to use?

Perharps when the title holders have grown beyond a certain Realm size, or just make it unrestricted - but place a huge cost in Prestige to make it happen.
 
Great Conquest CB

I like this proposed CB since it's a much needed tool for realms bordering Islamic, Nomadic, and Norse realms. With this new option you can now take the war into the enemy lands while they're still recovering from that failed jihad, prepared invasion, or nomadic invasion. Also the potential threat of the Great Conquest CB should serve as a disincentive for a militarily weak Islamic, Norse, or Nomadic realm to abuse the Islamic, Prepared, or Nomadic Invasion CBs against a much stronger neighbor.
 
This is another idea we're toying with, like the previously mentioned force conversion CB that Wuddel mentioned it's something that can't be used lightly though. It would have to require extremely specific circumstances, or only be presented through a scripted
opportunity of some sort. Have you got any ideas on when such a CB would feel fair to use?
1. You could get a CB to destroy an empire through a plot. Claimants plotters could add significantly to the plot power, the same as imprisoned ones. It would be rather hard plot to succeed with but after few years some events can pop up with decision to add to the plot power at the cost of tyranny penalties, prestige costs, maybe coming to disagreements with your vassals/councillors/family members (like with the "observe sky" hermetics mission). Maybe rivalry should be a prerequisite to make the plot available in the first place.

2. Right click action on the empire title (I really like those new direct interactions with titles like desecrating temples and pillaging holdings; you should make more things like that, not necessarily that destructive), activating something like "undermine the imperial authority" or something. You enter a state of constant hostility (like during raiding) with the targetted empire and all its vassals (so they raise their own armies) and cannot wage normal wars with them. Then you just wait for an event with very rare MTTH to pop up, giving you the "destroy empire cassus belli". Pros are that you can eventually get the CB and that you can profit from sieging down holdings of the enemy. Cons are that the enemy can still declare wars against you, has his vassals' armies raised against you and can siege down your holdings as well. If you underestimated the enemy, failed and give up with this whole "undermining" thing, the enemy could get the said "destroy empire" CB (or a chance to get it) himself.

3. I think that you should get free, super accessible "destroy empire" CB when targetted an empire with different government type (I would consider feudal and iqta the same for the sake of this, though). Fighting empire level theocracies is nuissance, the CB could come handy in disarming the Mongols as well as it would give extra love to the neglected merchant republics players. After all, if you have balls to claim an empire "listening to the people" (that is republican propaganda) you should have every right to call feudal empires tyrannical administrative abominations.

666. I would really like to see some CBs dedicated to lunatic characters, the "destroy empire" included. Declaring the "insane" CBs would cost you -50 or so GENERAL opinion so they would not be that attractive but it could make playing insane fun.
 
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This is another idea we're toying with, like the previously mentioned force conversion CB that Wuddel mentioned it's something that can't be used lightly though. It would have to require extremely specific circumstances, or only be presented through a scripted opportunity of some sort. Have you got any ideas on when such a CB would feel fair to use?

Maybe something along the lines: If a top liege/DYNASTY of an Empire changed (multiple times?) recently it becomes valid for some time; If a top liege/DYNASTY of an Empire has too little prestige/demense compared to his realm;

+target's vassals get an option to join the war effort; target must be of different culture group/religion
 
Free Hostages
A long-requested CB, this allows you to go to war against a character in order to free any kidnapped concubines or wives, and release certain characters from prison (i.e. friends and dynastants). Rescued characters will, most often, be moved back to your court. It will also take hostages in turn, imprisoning a random close member of the target’s family!

It’s currently not possible to attack anyone who holds a close dynastic member in their prison (i.e. your child), is this something you’d like to see changed specifically for use with this CB? Otherwise it'll be of use primarily for freeing concubines (something that has been requested for a long time!).


Note that these CBs are by no means finished, and are currently being tested internally. Feel free to comment and feedback on them though, and also feel free to tell us what CBs you would like to see added!

I feel like you should give the hostage holder the option to execute the imprisoned when they are attacked, probably with no malus if the executed are concubines rather than nobility. Rather than end the war, that introduces a new goal and outcome. Perhaps a king level belligerent can seize the duchy, while a duke level can only take a county. The consequences should be more lasting for any defender who goes this route, but the war goals should also become more difficult to achieve for the attacker. It is no longer simply sack target holding, but is suddenly a much broader conflict.

To prevent abuse from large realms on smaller, I also think you must first demand the release (rather than offer to ransom) and be denied before getting the CB, but I assume you have already thought of that.

I don't know if the execute prisoner mechanics are feasible from a programming perspective, but there is a very obvious reason you rulers generally avoided pissing off anyone holding a family member hostage. I think you need some sort of check to acknowledge that.
 
I'm of the opinion that more rules are always better.

Would it be possible then to have a new rule for fabricated claims, as the current spam for expansion is unrealistic and irksome, and seems unnecessary with these new CBs coming. Something like "normal" "reduced frequency/increased cost" and "disabled" would be welcome.
 
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