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CK2 Dev Diary #84 - Renovating Russia

Greetings!

Today we’re going back into the cartographer’s office to view the latest maps of the vast lands that lie just before the eternal steppes, where the Volga flows - the land of the proud Rus’. The Russian lands have always felt rather underdeveloped in CK2 compared to their size, even very important sites such as Kiev or Novgorod have been occupied by massive Counties that hardly give the area justice. As the area is one which lies in between the lords of feudal western europe, the Roman remnants in Byzantium and the relentless nomads of the steppes we thought it much too interesting to not develop further.

As Russia is quite big, we’ve broken the images up into three parts. These pictures are all from the year 769, so if something isn’t named as you expect it to be (i.e. Novgorod being named Ilmen) that’s the reason why.

Starting off with the north:
RussiaDD_North.png

As you can see, the definition has increased rather significantly. Historicity has also been improved, as the new borders are all based on sources from between the years ~600 to ~1300 (From proto-slavic tribes migrating in the area to the dissolution of the Kievan Rus' by internal strife and the Mongol hordes) with a focus on the 700-1100 timespan.

Now the south:
RussiaDD_South.png

Of primary note is that Kiev is now split up, and no longer one single humongous County. Those of you with sharp eyes might also notice that there is a new nomadic nation up by Radimichia and Severia - the Burtas clan, which is Turkic.

And as a bonus, Wallachia:
RussiaDD_Wallachia.png

As Bessarabia was so interconnected with the Kievan and Crimean lands, it felt right to also give the kingdom of Wallachia a facelift.

And now for the De Jure maps, as they have been requested in every previous map Dev Diary so far!

Duchies:
RussiaDD_769DeJureDuchies.png


Kingdoms:
RussiaDD_769DeJureKingdoms.png


You may notice that the old Rus’ kingdom is gone, replaced with the much more historical kingdoms of Novgorod and Vladimir. There are also several new smaller kingdoms, such as Galicia-Volhynia and Chernigov which both provide new opportunities and new risks, depending on if you’re playing in the Tribal era or Feudal era.

Empires:
RussiaDD_769DeJureEmpires.png

There was no doubt that the Tartarian empire was too big, that’s why when we had to add to it (the Kingdom of Perm is now part of it instead of Russia) we felt the need to break it up. In the south you can now see an empire of the Pontic Steppe - closely representing the Khazarian sphere of influence at its height.

Here’s a screenshot of how the 867 setup will look:
RussiaDD_867.png

And here’s 1066:
RussiaDD_1066.png

The major thing in this date is that after Yaroslav the Wise's death in 1054, his land in the Kievan Rus was divided between his 5 sons. Internal strife erupted quickly after between the sons and other relatives (like the prince of Polotsk), hurting the stability of the state.

That's why although the Kievan Rus' still existed as somewhat centralized around the Grand Prince of Kiev, at least for a while, unity wasn't the key word to describe the state. We've reflected that by keeping the different duchies independent but still tributaries to Kiev - until civil war starts again when brothers, sons, and cousins start pushing for their claims...

Changelog:
Code:
- Map Update to Russia
   - Major overhaul of the whole russian sphere
    - All major & minor rivers reshaped
    - e_russia is now created through 5 kingdoms (Ruthenia, Novgorod, Vladimir, Chernigov & Galicia-Volhynia)
    - 3 new kingdoms : Vladimir, Chernigov, Galicia-Volhynia
    - k_rus renamed from "Rus" to "Novgorod"
    - 4 new duchies (Cherven Cities, Karachev, Novosil, Murom)
    - 37 new provinces added to the general area
    - A few titular russian-tribes-themed duchies added for earlier startdates

Note that from now on, CK2 Dev Diaries will take place on Fridays rather than Mondays!
 
What cultures are Tivertsi Ushytsia and Olvia? I know it's a bit in the periphery, but I'm kind of hoping for Vlach. Doing a proper culture Wallachia game from 769 is very difficult.

Also, is there any particular reason that in the code CK2 Russian culture is called russian_culture as opposed to EU4 where it's just called russian? When I turn off the custom nations flag after converting (as you should), every formable tag can form except for Russia because it has arcane culture requirements that no culture in CK2 meets. I'll probably just edit the Russia decision to include russian_culture, but I was just wondering what the reasoning for CK2's being different was.
I checked and it's called regular russian. Are you sure it's not the other way around or do you have mods on?
 
I checked and it's called regular russian. Are you sure it's not the other way around or do you have mods on?
That's really bizarre. I was playing in vanilla and it converted that way. I don't know what the cause is, though at this point, when that happened was probably pre-Rule Britannia. Either way I guess this is quite a bit off topic, the Russian focus just reminded me of it.
 
Maybe there should be a de jure Uralic Empire consisting of Perm, Finland, Estonia and Sápmi. That way We can deal with Volga Bulgaria and it would balance out the de jure makeup of the region. The only problem could be with Scandinavia, as it would be somewhat smaller. OTOH, even with the new patch Sápmi and Finland are smaller in the amount of provinces.

Nah, the Uralic people are quite different from each other, just because in the modern-day most of them live in the Arctic (as Slavs and Germanics pushed the northwards from their native areas) doesn't mean that they were that similar to each other in the CK2 time frame.

k_Estonia and k_Finland being in e_Scandinavia makes sense as already from the Nordic bronze age both shores had a lot of contacts and the archeological culture and finds are identical on both shores during that time period (Nordic Bronze age), the contacts lasted even after that and it is very probable that both Scandinavians and Finnics living next to the Baltic sea were bilingual, both speaking a Finnic language and Norse so people on both shores could easily communicate with each other. Before the modern era, everything travelled faster over sea, the vikings being a prime example, they went all the way to Constantinople and the Mediterranean but travelling such massive distances by land would have been a lot harder and taken a longer time. Thus it makes sense that areas very close to each other (marital distance), had the same culture zone.

Livonian areas being in k_Lithuania is extremely odd and k_Estonia being in the Wendish empire doesn't really make sense. I get it that putting k_Estonia into the Wendish empire makes a lot of things easier gameplay wise but it truly doesn't make sense. In older versions of CK2, d_Livonia was in k_Lithuania and it didn't make sense either as it artificially cut off 4 Finnic Suomenusko counties from k_Finland which included every single Finnish/Estonian Suomenusko county. It was fixed in a patch and it made a lot of sense, no idea what happened now that ~3 Finnic Suomenusko counties are again artificially cut off.
 
That's really bizarre. I was playing in vanilla and it converted that way. I don't know what the cause is, though at this point, when that happened was probably pre-Rule Britannia. Either way I guess this is quite a bit off topic, the Russian focus just reminded me of it.
I checked the converter and it seems like it converts Russian to russian_culture. Check if EU4 has this culture in its files. If not, this is a bug and a report should be made.
 
WOW!!! (where's an extremely happy emoji? I want it now!)
Love the united 1066 Kievan Rus and Rus kingdom renamed to Novgorod, I missed it so much previously.
Ruthenian borders are quite funny:) It's really just lesser princedoms (Kiev, Turov, Smolensk, Pereyaslavl, Polotsk) united.

Making all these Radimiches and Vyatiches is also immersive, but feels unfinished.
  1. The Ilmenian people actually called themselves Slovenes (and now they are generally called "ilmenian slovenes") - will the game have any mention of it? Titular Slovene duchy, or Ilmenian Slovene culture (really, they didn't love that lake so much to call themselves after it), or a mention in Rurik's description (after all, he ruled them)? Wikipedia says Yugoslavian Slovenes were first mentioned as a distinct ethnic group in XVI century. Not to mention "Slovene" was the actual self-name of all Slavs at that time, so it was no weird for them to keep that name, while everybody else developed themselves new names (Drevlians etc).
  2. Will Kiev be ruled by a titular Polyan duke in 769 and 867? They did name themselves Polyans.
  3. Will Uliches be in the game? As a horde vassal, maybe? They're the only tribal union mentioned in the Primary Chronicle I absolutely can't find on your screenshots:(
Other than that, awesome to see the East Slav tribal unions in the game!

Also, the Primary Chronicle states Rurik was the sovereign of Polotsk, Beloozero, Murom and Rostov (and Novgorod, but that's obvious). Why aren't they his vassals in 867?

The 1066 political system is incorrect (until 1097 Rus was still somewhat unified with its agnatic primogeniture/"лествичная система") - but political systems is CK2's nightmare, so tributaries is okay:rolleyes:
Also, you started incorporating CK2+ systems... could you also, please, borrow their treatment of Ilmen and Peipus as seas for Novgorod and Pskov republics to be at least somehow playable?
Will Oleg/Helgi (Rurik's heir) get his nickname "the Prophet"? In 1066 start, AFAIK, it's missing.

Also, could you please tell why did you choose Volhynian, Ilmenian and Severian as East Slavic cultures?
 
Sorry I already posted this but... could you please rework the Slovak/Nitra region? There is lots of mistakes that could be easily changed. In EU4 it is nicely done. As a Slovak it pains me every time when I see Spiš as a part of Chrobatia. You could just make duchy of Nitra with couties Nitra, Zemplín, Bratislava, Spiš and Trenčín. It is in the middle of Europe but it is very inaccurate. Thanks for understanding.
 
"Pontic Steppes" sounds very, very bad. "Empire of the Steppes" would be better than this.



They could 1) add a unique inland republic system or 2) make a Major River flowing from Novgorod into the ocean, and turn Novgorod into coastal (like the AGOT mod does with inland Qohor and Norvos).

Republican Novgorod, or we riot!

@Slayen, @Heathen, @Qwalen, got something to add?

That's an excellent idea, and sounds like something modders could do, too (for if Paradox doesn't want to). I'm somewhat of a mind that all republics should be the same, have the ability to build Trading Posts along Trade Routes if they have a continuous link going back to the capital or to a sea Trading Post, and be able to build sea Trading Posts based on range from their Counties.

What we really need is a Russian expansion with some unique government forms related to veches. Veches were also capable of evicting unpopular hereditary monarchs and inviting in others to replace them, which could easily lend itself to a mechanic where, if Counties become upset, they can flip to other characters, including landless characters.

The Kievan system broke down when the Mongols came in, as they decentralized the government completely, destroyed the liudi (the middle class that the veches rested on), and enforced feudalism.
 
Scythians ceased to exist long time ago, but I think it's better name than "Pontic Steppe".

Seriously, Empire of Pontic Steppe? wut?

Alans and Saka are both descended from Scythians, and medieval people were aware of it. In the modern day, the Alans are called Ossetians and still exist. This is where the Alan dynasty "Ovseti" is relevant.
 
I checked the converter and it seems like it converts Russian to russian_culture. Check if EU4 has this culture in its files. If not, this is a bug and a report should be made.
In EU4, there are 3 cultures that can form Russia: Novgorodian, Muscovite, and Ryazanian. Of those, Muscovite is actually a localization of what is simply called "russian" in the code. I can't actually find a russian_culture in EU4. I've also mentioned it in posts before, but I don't think it's taken very seriously as I have to edit the game to turn off the custom nations flag anyway :confused:
 
OK can someone please tell me if they have any idea whatsoever when these updates are set to come out.
Its just I really want to start a new grand campaign but every time the map is changed (like when Tibet was introduced) my campaign is outdated and I need to restart all over again.

If Im doing something wrong and can actually start now and carry on playing post update please tell me because that would be great

Thanks
 
Alan culture should make it dynamic "Scythia" or "Sarmatia". Technically it's closest to the borders of the Sarmatian Confederation, while Scythia would practically be old Tartaria.
The eastern extent of Scythia was and is poorly defined. Sarmatia could make sense but then we might aswell call it Khazaria or Percheneg since Sarmatians were a specific culture while Schytia on the other hand, while named after the schytians, was a region.

To be honest any other name than "Pontic Steppe" would make me happy, but I think Scythia makes sense since a teoretical ruler of that region is not entirely unlikely to claim heritage from the legendary Schytians of old.
 
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OK can someone please tell me if they have any idea whatsoever when these updates are set to come out.
Its just I really want to start a new grand campaign but every time the map is changed (like when Tibet was introduced) my campaign is outdated and I need to restart all over again.

If Im doing something wrong and can actually start now and carry on playing post update please tell me because that would be great

Thanks
1: Right click the game on Steam,
2: Properties
3: Betas
4: Select the patch your game is saved in and let the game "update"
5: Enjoy!
 
The eastern extent of Scythia was and is poorly defined. Sarmatia could make sense but then we might aswell call it Khazaria or Percheneg since Sarmatians were a specific culture while Schytia on the other hand, while named after the schytians, was a region.

To be honest any other name than "Pontic Steppe" would make me happy, but I think Scythia makes sense since a teoretical ruler of that region would likely claim heritage from the legendary Schytians of old.

I'm not sure if it's that poorly defined, since historians in general have a pretty decent idea of where Scythians were. However, I'm in agreement that Scythia would be a good name for it.