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CK3 Dev Diary #77 - Becoming a Polyglot

Greetings!

As you all know, one of the new Cultural Pillars each Culture has is their native Language. Now, what effect does language have? At its very core, Languages affect the Baseline acceptance between cultures - if two Cultures share the same Language Pillar, they’ll like each other better. But that’s not all, characters can also learn additional languages!

So, why do you want to learn a language? Knowing a language cuts the (rather hefty) opinion penalties for Different Culture in half, both for Characters and Counties. Planning on conquering a foreign kingdom? Start your conquest by mastering their language, making subsequent control of your new subjects just that much easier! The less accepted your culture is, the more impact learning a language will have.

Now for the more pertinent question, how do you learn another language? You learn new languages through scheming!
SchemeInteraction.png

[Image showing the Learn Language interaction]

LanguageSchemeStart.png

[Image showing the Start Scheme window]

‘Learn Language’ is a Learning-based scheme, where progress and chance of success are primarily derived from how scholarly your character is. This scheme is available to everyone, even young children (who have a vastly increased chance of success/progress, by virtue of being young, less tired, and having working brains). It targets someone who natively speaks the language, having you try to emulate them. While the exact target you choose is less important than in other types of schemes, you might still get opportunities to interact with them.

Now, learning languages takes quite some time. Though it’s possible to significantly speed up the process by employing a Court Tutor!
CourtTutor.png

[Image of a Court Tutor]

You will also find that bonuses for this scheme have been added throughout the existing Lifestyle trees. Some examples:
  • Adaptive Traditions - Unlocks an additional Learn Language Scheme
  • Embassies - Increases Scheme Power
  • Chains of Loyalty - Increases Scheme Power
  • Pedagogy - Increases Scheme Success Chance
  • Open-Minded - Increases the Language Limit
  • Smooth Operator - Increases the Language Limit

If the scheme is invalidated by, for example, the target dying, your progress is retained and you get the opportunity to choose a new target.
InvalidationEvent.png

[Image of Invalidation Event]

When we first talked about languages, we had some people (rightfully) point out that decreasing the chance of success the more languages you know isn’t very logical. We still needed a way to prevent characters from knowing all the languages in the world, and thus we introduced the concept of a Foreign Language Limit. This represents how many languages a character can comfortably remember.

KnownLanguages.png

[Image of Language Limit]

If a character exceeds their Foreign Language Limit, they will start getting events about feeling overwhelmed, giving you the choice between forgetting a language or gaining stress. In a sense, this system is very similar to how we handle characters having too many lovers.

Of course, a character can never forget the language that is native to their culture, and that language isn’t included in the limit (as you can see in the above screenshot, Telugu isn’t included in the limit as it is his native language).

The Foreign Language Limit is affected by many things, but primarily by a character’s Learning score, where every 5 attribute points increases the limit by one.

With this change, we’ve made it so that the more languages you know, the higher your success chance is for learning additional languages. You have the basics down already, after all.
LanguageSuccessChance.png

[Image of a success chance breakdown]

Now, the process of learning a language can be quite entertaining. There are many events that can happen along the way; being helped by friends or family, opposed by rivals, and so on. Here are a handful of examples of what can happen during the course of learning a language:

LearnLanguageEvent1.png

[Image of your Court Tutor helping you]

If you have a particularly good Court Tutor, they can guide your efforts along very speedily.

LearnLanguageEvent2.png

[Image of a rival ruining your notes]

Beware your rivals, lest they release ink-soaked birds in your study...

LearnLanguageEvent3.png

[Image of a very amorous misunderstanding]

Sometimes learning a language doesn’t result in what you’d expect...

LearnLanguageEvent4.png

[Image of the Byzantine Emperor with a “It’s just a prank, bro”-smile]

Sometimes your target might find your efforts laughable, and try to make fun of you.

LearnLanguageEvent5.png

[Image of a merchant offering you a book]

Of course, there is an opportunity to gain a trinket-slot item that’ll help your efforts along.

LearnLanguageEvent6.png

[Image of someone offering to help]

As learning a language isn’t secret, sometimes you’ll get offers from other rulers to help you… for a price.

When the scheme completes, you have a chance of success and failure. If you’re brave, you might even choose to test your new abilities right away by penning a letter to your target!
SuccessEvent.png

[Image of a successful scheme]

FailEvent.png

[Image of a failed scheme]

Of course, you might find that others are emulating you in their efforts to learn your language. This gives you the opportunity to praise their efforts, or perhaps you’d rather ridicule them?
SomeoneLearnedYourLanguage.png

[Image of someone learning your language]

That’s it for this week! Now, this isn’t the only way languages are used in the game… next week we will dive into another use for them, something which ties directly into the mechanics of the Royal Court!
 
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I am not convinced about the language limit.
For example, it is odd that a character with the same ability who can speak German, Norwegian, and Swedish and one who can speak English, Greek, and Arabic can only learn the same number of languages.

I believe that there should be some kind of cost for each language. Such as, you can learn three languages if they are from the same group, but you can only learn one if they are different languages far apart.
 
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Did the Telugu and Ethiopian rulers get new crowns? Also any clue on the release date? I feel like its been awhile since it was announced the Royal Court was coming.
 
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Good stuff.
 
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Make going above the cap only increase stress and be very clear about this mechanic. (Red pop ups when learning more languages, like in Stellaris when choosing some decisions) Let us find other ways to get rid of said stress!
This makes some sense regardless of whether unlearning at will is kept.
Perhaps it's me, but isn't forgetting a language by hand like super unrealistic?
<...>
2.Make the cap a hardcap, its atleast not as mind boggling as 'unlearing' a language.
I would disagree about it. Unlearning foreign language is far more reasonable, it reflects you stopping practicing in that language and eventually forgetting most of it (of course, having it happen "overnight" is a simplification, but an acceptable one). I can readily say I willingly unlearned French :D While hardcap corresponds to literally nothing in reality.
3.Make each language you learn less effective if its above the cap, see it as confusing in words or grammar, you aren't mentally able to process all that kind of info. So you mix things up more?
This is just wrong. As a linguist, a polyglot, and a part-time teacher, I can confirm that if you know three languages your chances when learning the fourth one are better not worse, as Dev Diary correctly indicates.
Is their a way to encourage a ward to take up language classes?
I support the question. (Note that it is not the same as learning your tutor's language!)
Has a Language map mode been added?
As well as this one.
I like the mechanics for learning languages that have been presented so far, but will there also be a way to teach languages you know to other characters?
That is a good question, too!
Can you please explain Language Pillars?
Language is one of a culture's Pillars, along with Heritage, Aesthetics, and whatnot.
I dearly hope that the scheming mechanics will be rebalanced so that fabricating a claim on your liege's title is more difficult than learning a language.
Really? If you are a ruler who only has chance to learn language in what little free time s/he has after doing ten thousand things he has to do as a ruler? Medieval rulers didn't exactly have much leisure time.

And, of course, I again implore you the Devs to rethink the Slavic linguistic situation into one language. With how broad your groupings elsewhere are, having several Slavic languages (whose differences were barely beyond dialectal most of the timeline) is just factually incorrect.
 
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For example, it is odd that a character with the same ability who can speak German, Norwegian, and Swedish and one who can speak English, Greek, and Arabic can only learn the same number of languages.
Remember that many things we would call separate languages linguistically are not separate languages in game. For instance, Vlach is known from a previous dev diary's screenshot to have Latin, and "Telugu" covers most Dravidian languages. And beyond certain point, the similarities-caused-by-relatedness can be as much of a trap as of help (this is certainly true for, say, English-German pair in the modern world).
 
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Forgetting a language is easy. Just never use it.
I agree both - for me also 'forgetting language' sounds odd but yes, eventually you can forget foreign language just not using it. So mayby issue is with this action's naming convention? Mayby not to 'forget' language but something else? Like - "I'm not using High German, I literally can't remember how I can pronounce that word..." and in effects only an info that "HAS HAPPENED - High Germanic removed from your learned languages"? Because otherwise gaining stress simply because you've learned too many languages sounds odd. I'm not stressed that I've learned for example three languages but yes, I can forget one if I'm not using it.
Other formentioned options are also interesting but they include another mechanics to implement.
 
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young children (who have a vastly increased chance of success/progress, by virtue of being young, less tired, and having working brains)
Bold of you to assume my kids are anything but bumbling idiots ! I specifically breed them that way ! Their incompetency is my pride and joy, I like a challenge.
 
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Hi, the language mechanic sounds really interesting. Would you consider making it so that the number of languages you can learn is affected by how different those languages are? Like if character is Castillan and has 2 foreign languages slots, they could learn 4 similar languages, like Portuguese or Italian, 2 different languages like English or German or just 1 very different language like Ethiopian or Hindi. I think this way you could choose between reducing a small oppinion penalty from many similar cultures or a large penalty from just 1 or 2 cultures
 
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@rageair

Languages using the same alphabet/script should be slightly faster to learn. Maybe if you speak a similar language (same language tree) you can learn the new one faster? Ex: If you already speak Portuguese, you can learn Spanish with a 33% speed bonus, as opposed to learning German with a 15% bonus (different language family) or Arabic/Russian/Greek with a 0% speed bonus. To make the player understand, these bonuses could be displayed on a tool tip when hovering over the learning language icon.

Characters with parents from two different cultural backgrounds (and of different languages) should have two native languages as well as the language of where they grew up in. Ex: Scottish (Gaelic) and Welsh (Welsh) parents but grew up in England (English). Hence 3 native languages. Random events and relations with parents (maybe one was deceased during the child's infancy or the relations are low) could cause the child to not acquire all their parent's languages. Maybe non at all if the parents want to assimilate in their new lands and forget about their native language. This would add more flavor in general.
 
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I have many questions


1.Let's say I'm a hard boiled French Crusader in the Levant but at the ripe old age of 50 I decide to go native and become Levantine? Do I still know French and instantly Learn Arabic?
2.Is it hardcoded that you always know the Language associated with your culture
3.If I stay French and have children with a Levantine woman do they automatically pick it up from their mother?
4.Can you order children to Learn a Language? Must it be from their Guardian or can they learn on the side from anyone?
5. Will Faiths have an assigned Liturgical Language?

5. Can Languages be associated with a Faith and if so, do you get some bonus to knowing it?
6. Can Languages be associated with one or multiple regions, serving as a lingua franca for nobility across it
7. Is it possible to convert the language used by a County without converting the Culture wholesale
 
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1) Since learning a language is a scheme does that mean it uses your scheme slot and that you can't sway characters, for example, if you are trying to learn a language?

2) If a character I'm currently playing as knows more than one language do I have to chance to teach that language to any wards I have or does that only apply to a person's primary language? For example, if my character is French and knows German could I teach a ward of mine German or do I have to have them educated by a native German speaker for that to happen?
 
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My only question is what are the limiting factors that decide how many languages you are allowed to learn? Is it the same fixed amount for all Rulers regardless of Traits and attributes? Or is there some flexibility based on your Ruler's intellect, or on his/her Learning...i.e., do Quick, Intelligent, and Genius Rulers get a boost? Or high Learning characters?
 
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Thanks a lot for the diary.
The system looks well for adults. But I think it needs some changes to work well with children.
If the kid has parents who speak different languages, it has an impact on him? Or if his parents are multilingual, does it matter?
Kids have alow learning score until they grow up. Couldn't this lower the possibility for children to learn more languages?
Are characters limited to only one maternal language?
What happens if children learn during childhood more languages than their cap?

I think children should be able to acquire traits to increase the cap on foreign languages if they grow on a mullingual court or if they learn multiple languages during childhood
 
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We still needed a way to prevent characters from knowing all the languages in the world, and thus we introduced the concept of a Foreign Language Limit.
Aside from the fact that the "learning" stat could be used as a hard limit (same as Intendency for demesne size), that learning a language takes time, and most importantly that learning a language takes time away from other things, maybe the problem here is you just made learning languages too strong :

Knowing a language cuts the (rather hefty) opinion penalties for Different Culture in half, both for Characters and Counties.
Liking people more just because you understand each other isn't what I would call realistic. In fact I dare say it tends to go the other way around*. And obviously with that mechanic in place, it seems obvious why you would want to keep spamming "learn language" plots as soon as they are available if you didn't have a limit.
*You probably care less about people you don't understand, both in a good way, and in a bad way. And when it comes to peasant revolts, it seems to me they happened more often "at home" than in mixed language/culture areas

It would be more realistic in my opinion to have languages be "intensity modifiers" : if something makes a person dislike you (insult, fighting at a party, etc.), knowing their language should make that effect stronger ; the reverse being also true.
--> Only modifiers because anyone can bond (or reverse) even without common language.
--> Could be applied to personal plots (efficiency/speed), although more in reverse (i.e. takes much longer to influence someone if you don't share a language)
--> Edit : not to mention language should affect hostile plot discovery chance
--> when it comes to County opinion, as others have said its pretty irrelevant ; giving a small levy increase percentage would be more appreciable and also more realistic (you are able to talk peasants into joining, you understand draft dodgers etc.)

And obviously, a number of diplomatic and character options should only be available if you know the language (would be helpful to stop my anatolian character constantly interacting with irish characters through space, time and culturo-linguistic barriers). For example I don't think you should be able to court someone you don't understand.

Finally in some cases it could work like several space-exploration games, as in interacting with people you don't understand literally comes out as text gibberish, so it is harder for the player to work out "the good answer".



All that to say that if working toward it, a player should be able to make a Cleopatra VII or Charles V ("I speak spanish to God, french to men, italian to women and german to my horse") character without being overrun by stress just because the game thinks languages are too powerful.

________

Also, what about lingua franca ? Is it represented by default in the game? More importantly, can it develop throughout the game, as in for example everyone just starts to learn dutch and thus has opinion benefits with each other from Porto to Crimea?
 
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I have many questions


1.Let's say I'm a hard boiled French Crusader in the Levant but at the ripe old age of 50 I decide to go native and become Levantine? Do I still know French and instantly Learn Arabic?
2.Is it hardcoded that you always know the Language associated with your culture
3.If I stay French and have children with a Levantine woman do they automatically pick it up from their mother?
4.Can you order children to Learn a Language? Must it be from their Guardian or can they learn on the side from anyone?

5. Can Languages be associated with a Faith and if so, do you get some bonus to knowing it?
6. Can Languages be associated with one or multiple regions, serving as a lingua franca for nobility across it
7. Is it possible to convert the language used by a County without converting the Culture wholesale

There should be a penalty to learning speed based on age. After 18, a -15%. After 30, a -25%. After 50, a -50%.
 
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So, why do you want to learn a language? Knowing a language cuts the (rather hefty) opinion penalties for Different Culture in half, both for Characters and Counties. Planning on conquering a foreign kingdom? Start your conquest by mastering their language, making subsequent control of your new subjects just that much easier! The less accepted your culture is, the more impact learning a language will have.

Does it only impact opinion penalties, or does it also impact AI logic for joining factions? The opinion penalties for wrong culture rulers are basically meaningless. The thing that actually matters is the very high modifiers for for wrong culture when an AI vassal is considering whether to join a faction. That's the thing that makes wrong culture vassals dangerous.

‘Learn Language’ is a Learning-based scheme, where progress and chance of success are primarily derived from how scholarly your character is. This scheme is available to everyone, even young children (who have a vastly increased chance of success/progress, by virtue of being young, less tired, and having working brains). It targets someone who natively speaks the language, having you try to emulate them. While the exact target you choose is less important than in other types of schemes, you might still get opportunities to interact with them.

Will my children take advantage of this opportunity, or is this only relevant for the player if they become a child ruler? Can I direct my child to undertake a language learning scheme?

If the scheme is invalidated by, for example, the target dying, your progress is retained and you get the opportunity to choose a new target.
View attachment 764581
[Image of Invalidation Event]

This feels extremely shoe-horned. Why do I need to pick one of three random options, and not just select a new character on my own? It feels like the sort of thing a modder who is restricted from touching the internal game code would make, not something from a first-party DLC.

The Foreign Language Limit is affected by many things, but primarily by a character’s Learning score, where every 5 attribute points increases the limit by one.
This feels extremely high. With all the bonuses available, it's trivial to get your character to 40 or 50 learning. When am I ever going to need to know 10 languages?

Overall, this system seems to have some very weird design decisions. There doesn't seem to be any logical reason for trying to learn a language to be a scheme that targets a particular character.
 
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Will learning Latin or Greek be fairly common among the nobility? Since in theory most priests should know it and it gives a common language for people to speak for diplomacy
 
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Modding questions:

I'm vaguely working on an Ar Tonelico mod, so I'm wondering if there's a mechanic for a language that's not precisely associated with a culture; basically there's a language called Hymnos that''s associated with magical computers and automatically known to some people but can be learned by others, so I'd like it to run with language mechanics but not be a culture's language. I'd also like the people who know it inherently to have both Hymnos and their culture's language as native languages so they can be targets for the language learning scheme. Are those things possible?