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CK3 Dev Diary #77 - Becoming a Polyglot

Greetings!

As you all know, one of the new Cultural Pillars each Culture has is their native Language. Now, what effect does language have? At its very core, Languages affect the Baseline acceptance between cultures - if two Cultures share the same Language Pillar, they’ll like each other better. But that’s not all, characters can also learn additional languages!

So, why do you want to learn a language? Knowing a language cuts the (rather hefty) opinion penalties for Different Culture in half, both for Characters and Counties. Planning on conquering a foreign kingdom? Start your conquest by mastering their language, making subsequent control of your new subjects just that much easier! The less accepted your culture is, the more impact learning a language will have.

Now for the more pertinent question, how do you learn another language? You learn new languages through scheming!
SchemeInteraction.png

[Image showing the Learn Language interaction]

LanguageSchemeStart.png

[Image showing the Start Scheme window]

‘Learn Language’ is a Learning-based scheme, where progress and chance of success are primarily derived from how scholarly your character is. This scheme is available to everyone, even young children (who have a vastly increased chance of success/progress, by virtue of being young, less tired, and having working brains). It targets someone who natively speaks the language, having you try to emulate them. While the exact target you choose is less important than in other types of schemes, you might still get opportunities to interact with them.

Now, learning languages takes quite some time. Though it’s possible to significantly speed up the process by employing a Court Tutor!
CourtTutor.png

[Image of a Court Tutor]

You will also find that bonuses for this scheme have been added throughout the existing Lifestyle trees. Some examples:
  • Adaptive Traditions - Unlocks an additional Learn Language Scheme
  • Embassies - Increases Scheme Power
  • Chains of Loyalty - Increases Scheme Power
  • Pedagogy - Increases Scheme Success Chance
  • Open-Minded - Increases the Language Limit
  • Smooth Operator - Increases the Language Limit

If the scheme is invalidated by, for example, the target dying, your progress is retained and you get the opportunity to choose a new target.
InvalidationEvent.png

[Image of Invalidation Event]

When we first talked about languages, we had some people (rightfully) point out that decreasing the chance of success the more languages you know isn’t very logical. We still needed a way to prevent characters from knowing all the languages in the world, and thus we introduced the concept of a Foreign Language Limit. This represents how many languages a character can comfortably remember.

KnownLanguages.png

[Image of Language Limit]

If a character exceeds their Foreign Language Limit, they will start getting events about feeling overwhelmed, giving you the choice between forgetting a language or gaining stress. In a sense, this system is very similar to how we handle characters having too many lovers.

Of course, a character can never forget the language that is native to their culture, and that language isn’t included in the limit (as you can see in the above screenshot, Telugu isn’t included in the limit as it is his native language).

The Foreign Language Limit is affected by many things, but primarily by a character’s Learning score, where every 5 attribute points increases the limit by one.

With this change, we’ve made it so that the more languages you know, the higher your success chance is for learning additional languages. You have the basics down already, after all.
LanguageSuccessChance.png

[Image of a success chance breakdown]

Now, the process of learning a language can be quite entertaining. There are many events that can happen along the way; being helped by friends or family, opposed by rivals, and so on. Here are a handful of examples of what can happen during the course of learning a language:

LearnLanguageEvent1.png

[Image of your Court Tutor helping you]

If you have a particularly good Court Tutor, they can guide your efforts along very speedily.

LearnLanguageEvent2.png

[Image of a rival ruining your notes]

Beware your rivals, lest they release ink-soaked birds in your study...

LearnLanguageEvent3.png

[Image of a very amorous misunderstanding]

Sometimes learning a language doesn’t result in what you’d expect...

LearnLanguageEvent4.png

[Image of the Byzantine Emperor with a “It’s just a prank, bro”-smile]

Sometimes your target might find your efforts laughable, and try to make fun of you.

LearnLanguageEvent5.png

[Image of a merchant offering you a book]

Of course, there is an opportunity to gain a trinket-slot item that’ll help your efforts along.

LearnLanguageEvent6.png

[Image of someone offering to help]

As learning a language isn’t secret, sometimes you’ll get offers from other rulers to help you… for a price.

When the scheme completes, you have a chance of success and failure. If you’re brave, you might even choose to test your new abilities right away by penning a letter to your target!
SuccessEvent.png

[Image of a successful scheme]

FailEvent.png

[Image of a failed scheme]

Of course, you might find that others are emulating you in their efforts to learn your language. This gives you the opportunity to praise their efforts, or perhaps you’d rather ridicule them?
SomeoneLearnedYourLanguage.png

[Image of someone learning your language]

That’s it for this week! Now, this isn’t the only way languages are used in the game… next week we will dive into another use for them, something which ties directly into the mechanics of the Royal Court!
 
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just on learning closely related languages, i doubt there'll be much incentive for the player to even do that.

since the point of the exercise is to remove 'different culture' penalties, the player is incentivised to try for a more 'distant' language rather than a 'closer' one.
But aren't you much more likely to have closely related language speakers as vassals? If I'm playing in Britain, learning Chinese might give me the a larger opinion boost with its speakers than learning Gaelic would for Gaelic speakers, but I'm going to have Gaelic speakers as my vassals, not Chinese.
 
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But aren't you much more likely to have closely related language speakers as vassals? If I'm playing in Britain, learning Chinese might give me the a larger opinion boost with its speakers than learning Gaelic would for Gaelic speakers, but I'm going to have Gaelic speakers as my vassals, not Chinese.
so, um, why learn chinese?
 
That's my point - the incentive is to learn closely related languages, not distant ones. It doesn't matter that the impact on opinion is smaller, what matters is which language relevant characters (i.e. vassals) speak, which is likely to be a closely related language.
i was thinking that deciding what language to learn is gonna be more of an issue for larger realms rather than smaller ones.
 
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i was thinking that deciding what language to learn is gonna be more of an issue for larger realms rather than smaller ones.
I guess my experience is that by the time you're really big you can just wait for revolts, beat them, revoke their titles and replace them with same culture vassals, so the whole thing is moot. Maybe that'll change with the patch, though.
 
Screenshots above confirm learning language is a personal scheme, so it would replace a sway or befriend scheme. They do say there are events for the scheme, so you may be able to get opinion boosts or a friendship with the scheme target.
I have no idea what you're talking about; do you see those candles and books from the dev diary in your sway schemes?
I guess my experience is that by the time you're really big you can just wait for revolts, beat them, revoke their titles and replace them with same culture vassals, so the whole thing is moot. Maybe that'll change with the patch, though.
Or just... don't. That should actually be a viable option with this.
 
Or just... don't. That should actually be a viable option with this.
I'm unconvinced. If I leave wrong culture vassals, it's just a ticking time bomb. Maybe I know the right language, but does my heir? What happens if I die, he takes over, and suddenly all my previously happy vassals now have wrong-culture penalties alongside short reign penalties?

On the other hand, if I let conquered vassals revolt, and then replace them as I expand, each revolt is manageable, and I will not face wrong culture penalties in the future. It's hard to see, at least with the mechanics we've seen so far, why I would ever want to retain wrong culture vassals.
 
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I have no idea what you're talking about; do you see those candles and books from the dev diary in your sway schemes?
Sway schemes and romance/seduce schemes have different icons but since they are both personal schemes you can only do or the other and not both at the same time. The DD doesn't mention whether learning a language is a personal scheme or new type of scheme.
 
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Please, for the love of God, reconsider this system. This would mean that a czech character would have to study as hard to learn croatian as he'd have to study to learn songhai or mongolic. The slavs are currently split up into three distinct heritage groups, despite their migrations occuring a mere 400-500 years ago! At the point of the earlier startdate, it could be argued that these represent different dialects rather than distinct languages.
I really hope distinctions such as "Lechitic" will at least be reserved for the 1066 start date, any earlier than that the smallest distinction you should make should be "West Slavic"
From wikipedia: "West Slavic as a group distinct from Common Slavic thus emerges during the 7th to 9th centuries. The Czech-Slovak in turn develops as a separate dialect continuum within West Slavic during roughly the 10th to 12th centuries, just predating the first written attestation of the language in the 13th to 14th centuries."

Some other examples of how atrocious this approach would be:
- Greek characters would have an easier time than persian characters learning the alan language , despite alan being an iranic language!
- Hausa is culturally grouped together with a lot of cultures which speak Nilo-Saharan languages such as the "Tubu" language metioned in the DD. But Hausa is an afro-asiatic language, giving hausa characters an easy time to learn a language which is ABSOLUTETLY UNRELATED to their language. (Greek and iranian are at least both indo-european)
- In fact, if you look at the Nilo-Saharan languages you see what you're missing out on by tying language relatedness to cultural heritage: The N-S languages encompass among others Songhai, Kanuri and Nubian. In CK3, these three cultures belong to three completely different regional cultural heritage groups. But nevertheless, they share a fascinating commonality in their language family. This could be an additional layer of relatedness which would greatly increase variety and immersion!

If you want to use this system, the cultural heritage groupings have to be reorganized!

One a positive note, the division into Shaz Turkic and (presumably) Oghur turkic is a very elegant and to my understanding a sensible split. I presume Oghur turkic will be spoken by the Chuvashs, Bolghars, Avars and possibly the Chazars.
Personally I think the best out come would be to have cultural heritages to stay roughly as they are and add language families as a grouping for languages. And then have both give a bonus to learning a language if you share a cultural heritage and/or language family (with the bonus stacking if you share both).

The language families that don't align with cultural heritages will make sure there is also at least some bonus to learning related languages (e.g. Alan and other Iranian languages, and the Nilo-Saharan Languages).

But I think the true strength will come from groupings like Germanic, where it seems high and low German will be two languages in the game both within the Central Germanic heritage group. So keeping heritage groups as is, but adding a Germanic language family would mean a high German speaker would get a large bonus to learning low German, a small bonus to learning Norse, and no bonus to learning French. Thus a combined system of cultural heritage and language families can produce a 3 tier system of bonuses to learning while allowing more distant connections like the Nilo-Saharan languages to at least get a smaller bonus.

But it also allowing each of the Nilo-Saharan languages to get a small bonus to the languages around them as even though their language isn't genetically related to their neighbouring languages, they will have had a lot of borrowed linguistic features due to prolonged contact.
 
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Sway schemes and romance/seduce schemes have different icons but since they are both personal schemes you can only do or the other and not both at the same time. The DD doesn't mention whether learning a language is a personal scheme or new type of scheme.
While the dev diary doesn't explicitly mention a new scheme type, the only way I can make sense of this perk is that "Learn Language" is it's only scheme type.

Adaptive Traditions - Unlocks an additional Learn Language Scheme
 
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While the dev diary doesn't explicitly mention a new scheme type, the only way I can make sense of this perk is that "Learn Language" is it's only scheme type.
Maybe, but the last perk from the Glory dynastic legacies gives an additional sway scheme, not an additional personal scheme so the additional scheme from Adaptive Traditions perk could work the same, allowing an additional specific scheme in addition to basic personal scheme. Given the time the scheme takes and the seemingly low rate of success I do hope it is its own type of scheme though.
 
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I have no idea what you're talking about; do you see those candles and books from the dev diary in your sway schemes?
6th screenshot of this dev diary shows:

Personal scheme: Learn the language of King Salamon.

Like InsidiousMage said, seduce and sway schemes have different icons but function the same way. At this point, all signs point to language learning being a personal scheme and would replace other personal schemes (unless you are allowed more than one personal scheme via the perks mentioned above).

Swaying is kind of OP as it is, anyway. In CK2 your sway schemes could backfire and it could create issues. In CK3 you can have a powerful vassal not on your council as long as you sway them for a year or so every decade...
 
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Maybe, but the last perk from the Glory dynastic legacies gives an additional sway scheme, not an additional personal scheme so the additional scheme from Adaptive Traditions perk could work the same, allowing an additional specific scheme in addition to basic personal scheme. Given the time the scheme takes and the seemingly low rate of success I do hope it is its own type of scheme though.
Ah good point. I forgot about that.
 
Hey, I absolutely love the changes made to the language format. Love to see the boost from learning other languages. However, I think it misses the mark in one important factor. In the time period, language learning was very interwoven with diplomacy. To see that the focus has been laid on learning is good, but just misses something. I hope to see that your maximum number of languages can also be made higher because of f.e. the diplomacy score of your advisor or parents. This would establish a more interwoven relation language has with diplomacy, the advisors, parental relations and why parents choose to make there princes learn languages from far away. Also when considering diplomacy we should establish an expected number of languages someone should learn that would play in stress mechanic. Secondly, I also hope to see an event to be able to sent your child or any member of your court to an important allied court to learn the language (also mabye some event mentioning the "my hovercraft is full of eels" quote would be a nice easter egg for the language learning community). At last, I hope to see a polyglot attribute that greatly increases the maximum number.
 
It's quite a realistic game with realistic mechanics and roleplaying. It consists of little details, which makes it a good one. So if you add some new mechanics or other things, you should always bare this in mind not to spoil it.

It would be less odd not to forget a language, but simply to stop using it. And if you had already learnt some language, but made a decision to stop using it, but than chose an option to start learning it again, you should certainly have a huge bonus in progress of learning it, depending on how much time have passed since you stopped.

If you made such a decisions and for example less than a year passed since you stopped using some language, you should be able to learn the same language again in a month, week or whatever other little period, or maybe even at once. It wouldn't make sense in forgetting some language, making a decision to learn it again in a week if it would take you as much time as you learnt it for the first time. You can't completely forget a language in a week, month or even a year.

Good addition anyway.
 
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6th screenshot of this dev diary shows:

Personal scheme: Learn the language of King Salamon.

Like InsidiousMage said, seduce and sway schemes have different icons but function the same way. At this point, all signs point to language learning being a personal scheme and would replace other personal schemes (unless you are allowed more than one personal scheme via the perks mentioned above).

Swaying is kind of OP as it is, anyway. In CK2 your sway schemes could backfire and it could create issues. In CK3 you can have a powerful vassal not on your council as long as you sway them for a year or so every decade...
In addition, the first screenshot shows the learn language scheme followed by "2 more" before going to the hostile schemes (murder). This pretty much guarantees it's a personal scheme that takes the place of using other personal schemes. This leaves me feeling it's more trouble than it is worth. I'm not sure giving up other personal schemes for years is going to be worth it. We'll have to see how things go. If they add an extra personal scheme slot by default, it would be fine. Otherwise, I'm just not sure.
 
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