CK3 Dev Diary #93 - Turmoil in the Peninsula

[$ilent_$trider]

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It's not in our plan for now.
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Cheers,

The one thing I like in the Vic3 (and also present in Imperator) is the granularity of cultures in a given territory.
To me, it's never clear enough if a culture of a province represents the majority or plurality of the population or just the people with enough influence to lead a revolt.

 

[Jia Xu]

We can only focus on certain elements for a given flavor pack

I understand. You'll have to delete all of the Fate of Iberia content so you can give me tributaries, instead.

 

[The Shacks]

We did not focus on Morocco with this Flavor Pack.

See now this worries me because if it take it completely literally it means you've not modelled in the Almoravid and Almohad crisis/influx that should be a key part of the struggle. If it's NOT a key part I can only assume you've made the struggle more about the Umayyad period/867 start date and not the Taifa period/1066 start date. If that's actually the case I'm going to be really sad because surely actual proper Medieval Iberia and the Medieval portion of the reconquista is what this is all about....right....? Plz put me out of my misery in some small way *grin*

To the person that downvoted me are you honestly saying you are more interested in playing out the Asturias vs Umayyad scenario than you are the horribly balkanized tangled dynastic mess that is 1066 Iberia? I think your lying or a minority voice

 

[Vanticus]

See now this worries me because if it take it completely literally it means you've not modelled in the Almoravid and Almohad crisis/influx that shoudld be a key part of the struggle. If its NOT a key part I can only assume you've made the struggle more about the Ummyyad period/867 start date and not the Taifa period/1066 start date. If thats actually the case I'm going to be really sad beacuse surely actual proper Medieval Iberia and the Medieval portion of the reconquista is what this is all about....right....? Plz put me out of my misery in some small way *grin*

The "struggle" is about the contest between polities in Iberia., rather than the polities themselves. The ruling dynasties will be modelled like any other dynasty in the game, and that is sufficient for the Struggle to work. We don't need detailed Mahgreb flavour for an Iberian content pack to stand on its own.

By the same measure, you could argue that Iberia can't be "surely actual proper Medieval Iberia" without including English crusaders, Sicilian politics, Occitan culture, or Macaronesian colonisation. Different parts of the world always have connections with each other, but demanding that every connection is accurately detailed in a flavour pack is an unrealistic and unreasonable expectation. It is sufficient for the core to be flavoured without giving the same attention to its periphery.

 

[The Shacks]

The "struggle" is about the contest between polities in Iberia., rather than the polities themselves. The ruling dynasties will be modelled like any other dynasty in the game, and that is sufficient for the Struggle to work. We don't need detailed Mahgreb flavour for an Iberian content pack to stand on its own.

By the same measure, you could argue that Iberia can't be "surely actual proper Medieval Iberia" without including English crusaders, Sicilian politics, Occitan culture, or Macaronesian colonisation. Different parts of the world always have connections with each other, but demanding that every connection is accurately detailed in a flavour pack is an unrealistic and unreasonable expectation. It is sufficient for the core to be flavoured without giving the same attention to its periphery.

Fair enough argument but non of your other examples were anything but passing minor influences (english crusaders securing Lisbon was impactful sure but still minor). The hardened maghreb radicals coming into Iberia then supplanting the fractured Taifas is sort of integral though. Omitting it would be like an event pack focusing on the rise of the Kievan Rus and then NOT modelling the Mongols coming in, breaking them apart and tributizing them. Its the big crisis that actually sets back all the progress and ensures the struggle persists into the late game. Without it it'll likely always fizzle out far too early and lead to a homogonized Iberia.

I'm not fussed if they havent given Almoravids any specific features or mechanics beacuse culture rework already did that sufficently, i'm just worried that them invading wont be at all worked into the struggle system as something that does/can/will happen with some degree of certainty some of the time.

 

[$ilent_$trider]

Considering there's a thing called Interlopers involved in the Struggle, makes me think that a strong outsider can get involved mess things up. Be that Moroccan Almovids unifying the remaining taifas under a single Muslim banner as it happened in Real Life (tm), or a French King unifying the various petty Christian Kings of the North in alternate timeline where the Christians pushed back the Ummayads but then lost momentum due to internal conflict. If something to that effect is modeled into the system, I will be a happy Reconquistador.

Santiago y cierra España!

 

[Bandua_of_Gallaecia]

Yes, that's the case. Portuguese and Modern Galician developed separatelly because Portugal became independent and Galicia had a lot of Leon Spanish influence, but the culture magically becoming Portuguese was my "problem", and tbf it's not really a problem, but a thing that could be represented better imo with having both of them in this Galician-Portuguese culture, since it could represent those cultural groups better in a alternative scenario where Portugal never formed and the historical conditions where those distinct cultures rose didn't happen. I don't think this would be as much of a stretch or a anacronistic choice, but one that could be interesting and maybe represent the formation of two distinct cultures or the preservation of an earlier form of both.

Ah, i understand your point better now. Makes sense.

 

[FaeKissed]

I'm looking forward to breaking the struggle mechanic by introducing as many religions as possible to Iberia.

 

[Gray]

I may be biased, but I hope we can create the kingdoms of Leon and Castille in 867

 

[Mld1995]

Is the splitting off of the Mozarabic rite an indication that we might get more regional rites split off in the future within reason? (Presumably no need for the Cologne use that was purely just a different liturgy specific to the diocese of Cologne for example). I'd especially love some Maronite stuff in the future though I'm not sure of the best way to model their being in communion with Rome and opposed to the Orthodox but not being in contact with Rome until the first crusade...

 

[AHumpierRogue]

Ooooh, reference to some sort of Ummayad collapse mechanic (or something in that nature) is exciting. Hopefully the first of many such possibilities in DLC's there's another caliphate that also needs some sort of collapse simulated in the 867 start IMO *wink wink*. And a LOT more urgently than the Ummayads might require it.

The "struggle" is about the contest between polities in Iberia., rather than the polities themselves. The ruling dynasties will be modelled like any other dynasty in the game, and that is sufficient for the Struggle to work. We don't need detailed Mahgreb flavour for an Iberian content pack to stand on its own.

By the same measure, you could argue that Iberia can't be "surely actual proper Medieval Iberia" without including English crusaders, Sicilian politics, Occitan culture, or Macaronesian colonisation. Different parts of the world always have connections with each other, but demanding that every connection is accurately detailed in a flavour pack is an unrealistic and unreasonable expectation. It is sufficient for the core to be flavoured without giving the same attention to its periphery.

I mean, I get where you are coming from but in this case I disagree. The Almoravid seizure of Iberia is something that happened within the lifetime of most of the starting rulers in 1066 Iberia and had massive implications and effects on the peninsula, and despite this(like a lot of things frankly) there is basically 0 chance of this actually occuring in game without the players direct intervention. In a pack specifically focussed on Iberia, something to account for this would be really nice.

I get that the DLC does not want to focus on Morocco and I totally understand that and appreciate the laser focus, but I do hope that this does not preclude them adding some sort of event chain or mechanic for the Almoravids somehow. I do not think we need Maghrebi flavor(right now anyway, that should definitely be a DLC at some point IMO!) but still representing the Almoravids in Iberia would be nice.

 

[kjaf]

Call me a shill if you want, but I already pre-ordered yesterday.

I had massive fun forming Castile-Leon as an intrigue focused king. Now I can't play as any other lifestyle focus other than intrigue. I felt like Sheev Palpatine.

 

[PDXOxycoon]

I never play in Iberia, but i guess since i already have this DLC because of Royal edition i guess i will now.
Massively disappointed about struggle being only scripted and not dynamic. Then again, for that price...

Disclaimer first: I didn't work on Fate of Iberia's features, so take everything I say on the topic with a grain of salt

I personally think that Struggles being scripted is a good thing, as it allows us to give more content specifically for a Struggle. I don't really know how to write a compelling set for a large, dynamic Struggle without it being very generic. Having Struggles pre-scripted with unique triggering circumstances with lots of content seems like a better way to do it than a one-size fits all. It's more costly on production, but it lets us do narrow content of higher quality.

 

[Zhetone]

Is the splitting off of the Mozarabic rite an indication that we might get more regional rites split off in the future within reason? (Presumably no need for the Cologne use that was purely just a different liturgy specific to the diocese of Cologne for example). I'd especially love some Maronite stuff in the future though I'm not sure of the best way to model their being in communion with Rome and opposed to the Orthodox but not being in contact with Rome until the first crusade...

yeah hopefully this is just done within reason, rather than having every culture basically split on religion, but having Maronites like you said and maybe other groups would be interesting to provide more unique gameplay in different regions. but I think the biggest implications of shared heads of state would be for Islam since the Sunni split could retain a single Caliph for example

 

[TacticalRetreat]

Disclaimer first: I didn't work on Fate of Iberia's features, so take everything I say on the topic with a grain of salt

I personally think that Struggles being scripted is a good thing, as it allows us to give more content specifically for a Struggle. I don't really know how to write a compelling set for a large, dynamic Struggle without it being very generic. Having Struggles pre-scripted with unique triggering circumstances with lots of content seems like a better way to do it than a one-size fits all. It's more costly on production, but it lets us do narrow content of higher quality.

Well I prefer scripted over dynamic any day. Some of the latter day CKII expansions had some very nice scripted events, like the Charlemagne stuff.

The game is whimsical and sandboxey enough. I can't wait to see how Iberia and the struggle play out.

 

[MirrorMonkey2]

I personally think that Struggles being scripted is a good thing

So it's basically confirmed that there will be multiple struggles? I can't wait to hear about what other regions struggles can arise in!
I'm okay-ish with them not being dynamic. I'll be happy to learn all about them in the future!

 

[johnty5]

Disclaimer first: I didn't work on Fate of Iberia's features, so take everything I say on the topic with a grain of salt

I personally think that Struggles being scripted is a good thing, as it allows us to give more content specifically for a Struggle. I don't really know how to write a compelling set for a large, dynamic Struggle without it being very generic. Having Struggles pre-scripted with unique triggering circumstances with lots of content seems like a better way to do it than a one-size fits all. It's more costly on production, but it lets us do narrow content of higher quality.

I like that the idea with Struggles is to implement the framework with a view to adding more in the future.

One question - just to make sure I'm clear on the dividing line between scripted vs un-scripted: Are Struggles being implemented in a way that mean they always have to be tied to a particular geography? For instance, could I - through modding - create a struggle that had a chance to trigger whenever two empires anywhere in the world shared a border and, when triggered, set the geography of that struggle to be the area covered by those two empires and, say, their immediate neighbours? i.e. pre-scripted, but not fixed geography or realms involved.

 

[KAMCITY13]

Will conquer Iberia as the Sultanate no doubt

 

[tsr-aph]

Crusader Kings 3: Fate of Iberia Flavor Pack Launches in | GameWatcher

Crusader Kings 3: Fate of Iberia also introduces two new legacy tracks alongside new events, cultural traditions, unit designs, and more.

www.gamewatcher.com

From this preview: Accompanying the second flavor pack is the customary free update, which brings with it a new faction type, the ability to share Heads of Faith between different religions, vassal contracts for clans, and a new starting bookmark centered around notable Iberian characters for the game's 867 start date.

So I think maybe Mozarabic share Head of faith with Catholic?

I look forward to modders simulating the great schism and having the Pope be the head of the Orthodox Church in 867 then. (maybe a mod out there makes the Byzantines Catholic in 867 only for them to change later, but that would be really weird).

 

[Aurelio123]

Seems like a good opportunity to let people involved in a struggle to raid each other if their faiths are hostile just like they did.