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CO Word of the Week #5

This week I’ll keep things brief and focus on what’s happening on modding. As suspected, modders wait for no-one and they have already achieved really cool stuff like maps and code mods which is amazing!

Cities: Skylines II release build included an unfinished version of the Editor and it didn’t take long for it to be found. The modders took almost no time to figure out how they could create maps and started to advance the Editor tools to their liking. Again, just like with the first Cities game I am astonished by the effort you are all putting into modding the game. I love it!

However, I must ask for caution because any work done with the hidden unfinished Editor may break since there are still going to be changes to it. This is not to discourage you from working on your mods but rather to try and openly share what to expect. Some of the most notable changes will be in how the maps are saved so we can’t guarantee the maps saved on an unfinished version of the Editor will work with the game in the long run. We’re currently testing the map Editor and there are already changes to the water placement and landscaping tools so any tools made touching upon these are also likely to break. The Editor will be released early next year, so until then don’t let that stop you, just be aware that you may need to rework some things later on.

To further help the modding community we’ve updated the wiki to include more information on asset creation. You will notice there are no instructions for the level of detail models. This is because we’re working towards an automated system where you wouldn’t have to worry about the LODs unless you actually want to make them by hand (or the complexity of the asset requires it). Any other information will be added to the wiki as it becomes available.

We would like to invite all mod, map, and asset creators to join early access to the Editor for a few weeks before its release so you can see what it is like, test out your already created mods, and share your feedback with us. If you have experience creating mods for Cities: Skylines please sign up here.

I can’t wait to see all the things coming for Cities: Skylines II from the modding community!

And finally a quick update on the higher priority items mentioned last week: Performance improvements are on their way as we’re reducing the cost of rendering geometry. Bug fixing is going forward nicely and the mail and export bugs are getting sorted out. We are also working on a fix for some achievements not unlocking, statistics bugs, and a taxi getting stuck because someone left their child in it. Parenting is hard. A full list of fixes is introduced with each patch, so check the patch notes if you are interested in more details!

You may expect a bigger patch coming out in December before we go on a holiday break in three weeks. During the break, there are no patches and limited responses from the team while we take time off work. But until then, we’re working our hardest!

Sincerely,
Mariina
 
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Out of curiosity what specifically in the building part is lacking, is it the amount of content or the tools or the simulation and how it behaves? Of course the marketing line is rather grand and the game does not yet have the same quantity of content than CS1 has. You may have shared the points that you don't enjoy in the game already so no need to repeat yourself only to spoil my curiosity if you don't feel like it!

When it comes to the bugs reported we have the team looking into them and I think some of you may find the next patch fixing some of the things bugging you. Not all, but some.
From my perspective, it's that we were given a game with no mod or custom asset support, despite the fact that those features were advertised (including with several announcement posts here discussing modding) with the understanding from CO employees that the wait for the editor would be short (I believe the phrase used was "weeks not months" if I remember correctly?). In fact, at no point in the announcement about the editor, days before release, is there any indication that asset importing is so fundamentally broken that it's going to take months to get here.


That announcement that the editor was severely broken and delayed only came WEEKS after release in Word of the Week 3, right after the 2-week refund deadline for the game. It also came after you advertised the Region Packs that gave the impression that we were much closer to mod support that we actually are, it's crazy to me that this was advertised when the systems apparently needed for its implementation were so unfinished. All of those assets, and all of the potential assets that we could get from mods, are locked out for us despite us being led to believe that mod support was almost done, and it's virtually impossible to build a really unique looking city without that. CS 2 as a game is fine, minus the performance and simulation issues (export, mail, traffic AI, etc), but "if you can dream it, you can build it" isn't happening until we have mods.

Edit: "I don't expect hours, I would probably expect days" re: ParadoxMods release is the exact line at 19:17. This was on October 18, just prior to release.
 
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Out of curiosity what specifically in the building part is lacking, is it the amount of content or the tools or the simulation and how it behaves? Of course the marketing line is rather grand and the game does not yet have the same quantity of content than CS1 has. You may have shared the points that you don't enjoy in the game already so no need to repeat yourself only to spoil my curiosity if you don't feel like it!

When it comes to the bugs reported we have the team looking into them and I think some of you may find the next patch fixing some of the things bugging you. Not all, but some.

Oh that’s easy to answer. Grant access to props for decorating and the surface tools that we can currently only access from developer tools.

Also out of curiosity: You said that the new editor might break maps created with the old one. Now that’s a clear thing as you can’t take care about unofficial maps built with the old, unsupported one. But how will you handle the official, integrated maps? I guess they are also made with the old one and I can’t imagine your people have to rebuild those maps.
 
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When it comes to the bugs reported we have the team looking into them and I think some of you may find the next patch fixing some of the things bugging you. Not all, but some.
Maybe you just shouldn´t have released an unfinished game (not even in EA) and use the first day buyers as paying beta testers? Sure, there is no bug free game when it´s released but CS 2 was and is so full of bugs, it was impossible to miss most of them....
 
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The idea of a hard mode setting as a possibility sounded really good. Something where people can reduce milestone rewards, an option to make terraforming have cost, subsidies on/off. Could make those settings modular as well to allow players to have more freedom to balance the sim as they like. Right now after most people get a city going they never need to think about money again.

There's a lot of nice menus and statistics to dive into to try and balance your budget to make sure you're in the green, but there's so much "free money" it doesn't feel as pressing as it should. Basically the sim is great, it's just too easy for players who want to look into all the metrics and balance their budget. Like why worry about tourism income or exports when I have a fortune from just mindlessly building. I think most people asking for these settings want to feel like looking into all the statistics and menus the game offers matters a bit more and money is the biggest issue there

A good simulation loop is like - my city grew why am I suddenly in the red now? -pulls up menus, discovers tourism isn't meeting demand anymore and I need more hotels- Place more hotels - time goes by and now I'm back in the green. The game already basically does this with all its systems but you're so rich most of the time, you never need to get sucked into that loop and problem solve
Another, simpler way to put this is sim players want to feel rewarded from the revenue their city generates rather than arbitrary milestone rewards and subsidies. To achieve that goal, the player has to make sure all the features the game has to offer are running efficiently and meeting demand unless they choose to over specialize (like tourism or something). Just getting that balance right financially will really improve things.
 
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For me, the number one problem with the release is I felt deceived by the marketing when it came to the editor and mod support. We were led to believe that stuff was going to come "soon" after release which made it sound like it was going to be a few days to a couple weeks. Not "sometime next year". That should have been clearly communicated and it feels deceptive to try to sell some more pre-orders and day 1 copies. Of course, you can always say "soon" is subjective and that would be correct, but I would hope the goal of the company is not to successfully trick its audience, but rather satisfy its audience. You failed in the second part regarding this.

As for the game itself, if you say that the gameplay and sim aspects are where they are and are much better than CS1, I believe you. But if there is no reason for me to really engage in that or worry about it, does it even matter? When I never have to worry about money even when I'm earning -8000/hr, why would I care about what simulation is happening? You can claim all the failsafes were implemented to cater to casual players, but there already is Unlock All and Unlimited Money for that. This game is pretty much a City Painter right now than a City Builder and you went super barebones in the city painter aspects.

Also, what happened with the cims per hour and money per hour indicators anyway? Why were they changed to up and down arrows? And despite overwhelming feedback pre-release saying that we did not like that and would like the actual numbers on the display back, its still arrows. What is the logic behind that decision anyway? The audience is too dumb to realize that green numbers means trending up, red numbers mean trending down or something? If you are losing 100/hr compared to 8000/hr should both just be indicated by the same down arrow?

Ultimately, this game has already gained a rep for being another hyped up failure. We are already seeing articles about how CS1 now has more active players than CS2. Can you turn this around to become another redemption story? I don't know. So far, nothing I have seen indicates you can. But luckily, this genre is such that in a year from now, if someone is looking for a decent city builder, there aren't as many options out there.
 
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As for the game itself, if you say that the gameplay and sim aspects are where they are and are much better than CS1, I believe you. But if there is no reason for me to really engage in that or worry about it, does it even matter? When I never have to worry about money even when I'm earning -8000/hr, why would I care about what simulation is happening? You can claim all the failsafes were implemented to cater to casual players, but there already is Unlock All and Unlimited Money for that.
This is the big thing for me and most sim players but it seems SUPER fixable. They're clearly reading these threads and listening so I feel confident the game will get there but obviously the performance fixes come first
 
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Thanks for all the feedback. When it comes to the gameplay and simulation we set goals for the game and we have reached those goals.
Surely there are issues that we're looking into and fixing bugs, but the overall gameplay experience is what we aimed for. Cities: Skylines II is the better game compared to the first one. If you dislike the simulation, this game just might not be for you. If there is a bug that ruins it for you there's a good chance it's fixed sometime in the future. Games are a subjective experience and it is impossible to please everyone. There's a bugfixing patch on its way soon however, so hopefully we'll be able to resolve at least some of the issues that may be a deal breaker for some. We thank you for your patience!

For clarity the above is for the simulation and gameplay. The performance is not where we want it to be and we are hard at work to improve it. This is also the reason the consoles were delayed. The modding support is an important part of a Colossal Order game, so it will also be rolling out as soon as possible.
We are disappointed we couldn't make these aspects of the game ready for you on time, but we refuse to give up. The missing features and platforms will be available in the upcoming months.
You can't possibly be saying that bug fix is a 'a good chance'.

We know game has limitations, we know simulation has limitation. But, we expect ongoing simulation adjustments to ensure unintended breakages in simulation don't continue. Either say it's not a bug, or fix it. Saying it's a bug, but we won't fix it is really bad message for long term support.

One thing I haven't seen a lot in discussion is UX design. I often find myself fighting UX and unnecessary annoyances in UX are just too many to ignore for me. I assume mods will come and fix some of it, but it feels like a low-hanging fruit for CO to make game enjoyment easier.

Lastly, people are here talking and complaining and interacting because they like the game. Because they are invested. It's easy to forget that posts here are not an accurate representation of the players. People who enjoy it, won't come to forums to talk about it; people who just don't enjoy it, won't come here. Only people who really want to get things fixed, so they can continue playing would be present here. (Along with some random haters.)

In case anyone at CO is forgetting, reception is not as bad as you would see on forums full of neverending complaints.
 
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Imagine holding a high position in your corporation and going on your public forums to throw a hissy fit on your players that your company has seriously let down :eek:

Can't believe they think this statement is a good image for their company smh
 
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If you dislike the simulation, this game just might not be for you.
You might want to rephrase this comment. A lot of people are going to read this and IMMEDIATELY give up on the game, and that's not what this game needs; don't give people a reason to no longer play this game. You can still say that there are short-comings with the current version of the game & how the development team is working tirelessly to fix the bugs and performance issues; HOWEVER, any message related to "well, this game isn't for those who dislike "x feature" or "y function", so it's not my fault you're upset with how it works" will TICK OFF so many people as it's a deflection from what needs to be relayed to current players and soon-to-be players.

I am trying so hard to continue defending this game and how all the hard work that was put into its predecessor will carry into this one, but with comments such as this that alienate the player base, this does not give me high hopes for how future problems/expectations with the game will be addressed. Please consider rephrasing what you said into something not as "facepalm-worthy"...
 
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You might want to rephrase this comment. A lot of people are going to read this and IMMEDIATELY give up on the game, and that's not what this game needs; don't give people a reason to no longer play this game. You can still say that there are short-comings with the current version of the game & how the development team is working tirelessly to fix the bugs and performance issues; HOWEVER, any message related to "well, this game isn't for those who dislike "x feature" or "y function", so it's not my fault you're upset with how it works" will TICK OFF so many people as it's a deflection from what needs to be relayed to current players and soon-to-be players.

I am trying so hard to continue defending this game and how all the hard work that was put into its predecessor will carry into this one, but with comments such as this that alienate the player base, this does not give me high hopes for how future problems/expectations with the game will be addressed. Please consider rephrasing what you said into something not as "facepalm-worthy"...
You do not need to defend a game that you bought... I never really understood that. I am a customer, I buy it because I like it and hope to enjoy it. If I don't then I'll leave it be... why should I defend the company?
 
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You do not need to defend a game that you bought... I never really understood that. I am a customer, I buy it because I like it and hope to enjoy it. If I don't then I'll leave it be... why should I defend the company?
Some people defend the game because they would like years of updates and DLCs so that it becomes as solid as CS1 instead of being abandoned like, erm... that Rome game.
 
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You might want to rephrase this comment. A lot of people are going to read this and IMMEDIATELY give up on the game, and that's not what this game needs; don't give people a reason to no longer play this game. You can still say that there are short-comings with the current version of the game & how the development team is working tirelessly to fix the bugs and performance issues; HOWEVER, any message related to "well, this game isn't for those who dislike "x feature" or "y function", so it's not my fault you're upset with how it works" will TICK OFF so many people as it's a deflection from what needs to be relayed to current players and soon-to-be players.

I am trying so hard to continue defending this game and how all the hard work that was put into its predecessor will carry into this one, but with comments such as this that alienate the player base, this does not give me high hopes for how future problems/expectations with the game will be addressed. Please consider rephrasing what you said into something not as "facepalm-worthy"...
Maybe you should accept that this game is not for everybody, as it is officially stated. There is nothing for you to defend here.
 
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Maybe you should accept that this game is not for everybody, as it is officially stated. There is nothing for you to defend here.
Yes, I think I realized just now that the official position is: “guys, the game is what it is, and if anyone wants a more tailored simulation experience just wait for mods”.
 
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I loved playing CS1. I was excited for CS2 to be released. I was disappointed there was no Mac version on release, but bought a PC to play it. No regrets. I am enjoying CS2. There may be bugs, or maybe it's something I don't fully understand yet, but it's fun and using CS1 as an example, it will improve over time. Being a simulation, I'll play for a while then move on to something else, then come back to CS. It's the nature of simulations for me and I think CO has CS's best interests in mind while balancing the nature of running a business at the same time. I'm confident in the future of CS.

my 2c.
 
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Thanks for all the feedback. When it comes to the gameplay and simulation we set goals for the game and we have reached those goals.
Surely there are issues that we're looking into and fixing bugs, but the overall gameplay experience is what we aimed for. Cities: Skylines II is the better game compared to the first one. If you dislike the simulation, this game just might not be for you. If there is a bug that ruins it for you there's a good chance it's fixed sometime in the future. Games are a subjective experience and it is impossible to please everyone. There's a bugfixing patch on its way soon however, so hopefully we'll be able to resolve at least some of the issues that may be a deal breaker for some. We thank you for your patience!

For clarity the above is for the simulation and gameplay. The performance is not where we want it to be and we are hard at work to improve it. This is also the reason the consoles were delayed. The modding support is an important part of a Colossal Order game, so it will also be rolling out as soon as possible.
We are disappointed we couldn't make these aspects of the game ready for you on time, but we refuse to give up. The missing features and platforms will be available in the upcoming months.
What an out of touch thing to say and bold, given that the playerbase is now on par with CS1 barely a month into launch. It was your marketing team and ur decision I’m sure to promote this game as a deep simulation and a worthy successor to the game we all know and love, and charge us an incredible amount for it. Stop blaming players for your own incompetence - it never goes well.

If the performance was by your own words unsatisfactory, why release it saying ur satisfied with the game? It is only natural that players assume what you say has worth in it? Why lie to us about when modding will be released?

Games are a subjective experience but I would like one that works please and delivers to what it was advertised as. Not failsafes that were sneakily added and only exposed when people found out. This is one of the most basic demands of any game, whether a indie developer or a major one. Would you ever even look into this and resolve player concerns on these standout issues?

This arrogance reeks of Simcity 5 behaviour and EA.
 
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You do not need to defend a game that you bought... I never really understood that. I am a customer, I buy it because I like it and hope to enjoy it. If I don't then I'll leave it be... why should I defend the company?
I defend the current status of the game because I want this game to receive as much work possible to make this the best city-building game. I want the developers to continue doing good things for the game. I know they've done good in the past (even if it took some time); just look at how far C:S1 went! That game also had a ROUGH launch, but with time it gradually improved; I hope the same can be said for C:S2, but it's hard to still feel excited jumping into the game when the CEO makes remarks such as that.

Maybe you should accept that this game is not for everybody, as it is officially stated. There is nothing for you to defend here.
The way it was said could've been better, but I am very well-aware that this game is not for everyone; that's not what I was getting at. Players expected/wanted the game to function better than what they've currently got (the simulation being in question). To say "well, it's not for everyone, so sorry if that's you" is a big curveball to those who have played simulation games before such as C:S1; when the core functionality of the game doesn't function as it should, being told, "sorry, that's just how it works now" is not how you appeal to those who've already sunk HUNDREDS of hours into the game. Players wanted the game to not be so riddled with bugs and performance issues, and I tried telling people "they've gotten this figured out before; just give them some time", only for this curveball to make me question why I've spent so much time if I keep getting upset with the things that still haven't been addressed.

I have only defended the game with the hope that things will get fixed in due time and that it will continue to grow and be as successful as C:S1; reading some of the messages on here, though, has not instilled much further confidence. However, I'd love to be proven wrong and eat my words with the fixes/improvements coming in the next patch(es).
 
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