CO Word of the Week #5

[Thaimasker12]

I took the first week off work and played CS2 like crazy. I don't see who, in it's current state, the economic simulation could be aimed for.
Usually people who care about simulation are players who want to have to play more strategically, with difficulty/realism. Not just turn their brains off because of failsafes and getting way too much money,etc.
I read that the goal was for it to be more difficult past the start but it just doesn't feel like that at all.
And as others have said, it just doesn't feel "real". Even CS1 felt more real.. it felt like what I did mattered more.which is the last thing I expected.

 

[FunkyPanda36]

design choices like fewer people present on roads as the city grows bigger

Probably a performance thing at the moment but it definitely needs to be adjusted imo. Feels good in small cities but you really feel that equation lessening the experience a bit as you get into bigger cities

 

[Kanslee144]

@co_martsu , I think we all appreciate you coming here to answer questions, but imagine this scenario below and you might understand why so many people are disappointed with this game and an answer like "Yes, the game is out now and there's no going back" is disrespectful.

The scenario: I run a clothing store online. I advertise my t-shirts as the best t-shirts you're gonna buy this year. I tell costumers all the things they are getting when they buy from me.
So people believe me and buy my t-shirts. But instead of sending them the t-shirts as advertised, I send them a sleeve or two because the t-shirts are not ready.

When people complaint about that, I tell them that yes, the full t-shirt is coming, but they'll have to wait a few months until they can receive the rest of the t-shirt and finally wear them. Also I tell them that, if they don't like it, to go to a local tailor and ask them to finish the t-shirt or, you know, just don't wear them.

Do I need to go on? Can you (and you I mean the company) understand how disrespectful it is to sell something like this game, knowing fully well that it wasn't ready? Would you still believe and buy something from my imaginary clothing store if I did what happened on the mentioned scenario to you?

Honestly, I was a huge fan of the first game but I was playing CS2 on Gamepass because I wasn't sure what to expect from the game and I'm glad I did that. I would be incredibly angry if I had spent money exclusively on this game.

 

[A lowborn Emperor]

I apologize for the formulation of my response above. My intent was to point out that while we do our best to improve the game we will never be able to please absolutely everyone. We are fixing bugs and improving the game combining our vision with the feedback and bug reports we're getting from you, the community.

You misspoke your intention, okay cool, I cannot say I have never done the same, so apology accepted.
However I think you should clearly repeat that apology in the next WOW because that is what people see, and what journalists will report on, not an apology buried deep in a ongoing reactionary storm. I don't want to be needlessly rude so I'm sure you know what I mean when I say reactionary storm

so you should be aiming for your apology to be noted on a higher profile medium, such as WOW #6 js

As I said it's disappointing we weren't able to meet the expectations that were set by the stellar marketing campaign and the success of the first game.

huh?

How are you being driven by the marketing team, it should be the other way around, they should be marketing what you are delivering, not scamming your customers with promises you can't or won't deliver on, building unrealistic expectations.

smh

However working together with you is the best part of creating games, and together we can make Cities: Skylines II the best it can be. I truly believe that.

This I believe but it's going to be a long rocky road to get there, one that is in desperate need of a modding community, and a it will be much longer rocky road before you rebuild my abused trust in your company, if you even can.
Probably a much much longer rocky road before I ever pay full price for any DLC for CS again, now I'll probably wait for a sale for any content.

 

[Therearenogoodnames]

I'm not sure why people are so concerned about performance. This is not an FPS, don't need 120fps.
It's perfectly playable on my 1050ti from I don't even remember how many years ago. I'm sure anything newer won't have much problems running it. It's funny how people with 4090s are complaining when my 1050ti is running it
(Not mentioning cpu as in my case it's gpu bound)

I am late to respond here, but I am running the game just fine on a 3060 Ti. Who cares if I cap out at 60 FPS while I am playing. Like you said, its not an FPS or fighting game, and my reaction times don't matter.

 

[A lowborn Emperor]

That's the one point they can't get away from, no matter how hard they try - the game was released too early.

100%

conversely I've not seen anything from the publisher themselves relating to the state the game was launched in and why it was allowed to be sent into the wild in that state - where's their acknowledgment of responsibility in all this mess?

You seriously expect PI to admit they threw CO under the bus to sate the greed of their investors?

 

[BambooShoots2]

Sincerely,
Mariina

Hi Mariina and the Cities: Skylines II Team,

I just wanted to drop a quick note to say a big thanks for your recent updates and the way you're handling the community's feedback. Also, your candidness about the unfinished Editor is hugely appreciated. It's reassuring to know where things stand, and this kind of openness really strengthens our trust as players.

You're clearly putting in a lot of effort to continuously improve Cities: Skylines II, and though it's tough to meet everyone's expectations, your focus on fixing bugs and enhancing performance is definitely being seen. I'm excited to see the direction the game takes with these improvements.

As an aside, personally, I feel the simulation aspect of Cities: Skylines II has been improved by leaps and bounds from it's predecessor and commend you for it.

Keep up the great work. I can't wait to see what's next for Cities: Skylines II!

 

[S.C. Watson]

I apologize for the formulation of my response above. My intent was to point out that while we do our best to improve the game we will never be able to please absolutely everyone. We are fixing bugs and improving the game combining our vision with the feedback and bug reports we're getting from you, the community.

As I said it's disappointing we weren't able to meet the expectations that were set by the stellar marketing campaign and the success of the first game. However working together with you is the best part of creating games, and together we can make Cities: Skylines II the best it can be. I truly believe that.

Thank you for the apology and clarification.

 

[ifredn]

I apologize for the formulation of my response above. My intent was to point out that while we do our best to improve the game we will never be able to please absolutely everyone. We are fixing bugs and improving the game combining our vision with the feedback and bug reports we're getting from you, the community.

As I said it's disappointing we weren't able to meet the expectations that were set by the stellar marketing campaign and the success of the first game. However working together with you is the best part of creating games, and together we can make Cities: Skylines II the best it can be. I truly believe that.

As said - marketing right in the face of the preorder customers.

And obviously ignoring that the game was released pretty unfinished. Not un-finnished *hahalöltihi* - unfinished

We still don´t have answers to the rules that were implemented and how they are intended to work - why exactly are you hiding that information? Due to the "failsafe"-code, that automagically corrects errors of the simulation?

Why are signature industries forcing the rest of the industries to build only storage-buildings? Why are cars magically teleported into areas without even road access? What is that all about?

Answers are needed. Not suggestions from us - answers from you.

Sorry to be harsh.

 

[Rdizz]

You might want to rephrase this comment. A lot of people are going to read this and IMMEDIATELY give up on the game, and that's not what this game needs; don't give people a reason to no longer play this game. You can still say that there are short-comings with the current version of the game & how the development team is working tirelessly to fix the bugs and performance issues; HOWEVER, any message related to "well, this game isn't for those who dislike "x feature" or "y function", so it's not my fault you're upset with how it works" will TICK OFF so many people as it's a deflection from what needs to be relayed to current players and soon-to-be players.

I am trying so hard to continue defending this game and how all the hard work that was put into its predecessor will carry into this one, but with comments such as this that alienate the player base, this does not give me high hopes for how future problems/expectations with the game will be addressed. Please consider rephrasing what you said into something not as "facepalm-worthy"...

Just going off of your first line, I did read that, and I did give up on the game. I now realize it is nothing more than CS1 with a different shader. I feel like it is nothing I can't get from CS1 mods. So, I just cannot justify spending the money on something when technically I already have it.

Just so glad I was able to play this on gamepass, but I can assure you that I will not purchase any DLC what-so-ever. The game is just bland, the simulation is meh. People have torn it apart discussed it, explained it, you name it but in the end it does nothing of real "simulation" the game throws money at you there is no management and even traffic jams clear up on their own with the magical poof. The game as it stands IMO is nothing more than screen shot fodder. I really thought based on the advertising of this game it was going to be the end all City builder What I got was a new game that is years behind its predecessor where all I do is draw roads and paint zones.

I really thought this was the game for me, apparently it is not.

The only thing I am confused on is this simulation working as intended? is this all we have to look forward to and some eye candy from Mods?

(Side note, Performance has not affected me game runs fine for me and my over priced hardware)

 

[pablomarti354]

once the bugs are fixed and some "hard" mode without failsafes is implemented, i think the majority of opinions about the game will be 100% positive

AND performance is improved in large populations. Then, I also think opinions will be more positive

 

[jacktimes2]

If you dislike the simulation, this game just might not be for you.

Duly noted.

 

[anton95]

My intent was to point out that while we do our best to improve the game we will never be able to please absolutely everyone.

I am glad you clarified this point.

If you dislike the simulation, this game just might not be for you.

When it comes to the gameplay and simulation we set goals for the game and we have reached those goals.

Because this sounds like all you will be doing is fix bugs, but you won't improve on the simulation based on the players' feedback. Because while I agree that what someone likes or dislikes is subjective, and can change between players, I think that there seems to be a consensus/majority opinion on a few features — at least here on the forums. Maybe you have additional metrics that we cannot access.
I would like you… no, I would expect you — as a developer who prides themselves as listening to community feedback — to incorporate such feedback on top of bug fixing and not just insisting on the simulation working as designed.

Somehow we need to navigate in this space and do the best we can so both players will be happy, but sometimes we fail.

Which is exactly why I think that clear and extensive priority lists, showing in detail what you are currently working on, are incredibly important — and useful — in the weekly blog posts.

Please, don't get me wrong. I am still very positive about Cities: Skylines 2. I enjoy playing it a lot. Likewise, I still think that it will be an amazing game in the future. And I do think that a lot of the criticism in the forums and on Reddit are unwarranted. But I also think that it is necessary to incorporate player feedback — even on things that work as designed — to achieve the full potential that CS2 has.

 

[Kanslee144]

@co_martsu , I think we all appreciate you coming here to answer questions, but imagine this scenario below and you might understand why so many people are disappointed with this game and an answer like "Yes, the game is out now and there's no going back" is disrespectful.

The scenario: I run a clothing store online. I advertise my t-shirts as the best t-shirts you're gonna buy this year. I tell costumers all the things they are getting when they buy from me.
So people believe me and buy my t-shirts. But instead of sending them the t-shirts as advertised, I send them a sleeve or two because the t-shirts are not ready.

When people complaint about that, I tell them that yes, the full t-shirt is coming, but they'll have to wait a few months until they can receive the rest of the t-shirt and finally wear them. Also I tell them that, if they don't like it, to go to a local tailor and ask them to finish the t-shirt or, you know, just don't wear them.

Do I need to go on? Can you (and you I mean the company) understand how disrespectful it is to sell something like this game, knowing fully well that it wasn't ready? Would you still believe and buy something from my imaginary clothing store if I did what happened on the mentioned scenario to you?

Honestly, I was a huge fan of the first game but I was playing CS2 on Gamepass because I wasn't sure what to expect from the game and I'm glad I did that. I would be incredibly angry if I had spent money exclusively on this game.

I just want to say that, after reading this again, I might have been a little bit harsher than I meant and for that I apologize. But the complaint still stands.

 

[zitounae]

Thanks for all the feedback. When it comes to the gameplay and simulation we set goals for the game and we have reached those goals.
Surely there are issues that we're looking into and fixing bugs, but the overall gameplay experience is what we aimed for. Cities: Skylines II is the better game compared to the first one. If you dislike the simulation, this game just might not be for you. If there is a bug that ruins it for you there's a good chance it's fixed sometime in the future. Games are a subjective experience and it is impossible to please everyone. There's a bugfixing patch on its way soon however, so hopefully we'll be able to resolve at least some of the issues that may be a deal breaker for some. We thank you for your patience!

For clarity the above is for the simulation and gameplay. The performance is not where we want it to be and we are hard at work to improve it. This is also the reason the consoles were delayed. The modding support is an important part of a Colossal Order game, so it will also be rolling out as soon as possible.
We are disappointed we couldn't make these aspects of the game ready for you on time, but we refuse to give up. The missing features and platforms will be available in the upcoming months.

True, a mage that crash since day on a proper computer 1 from textures bug in 5min isn't for me. LOL

Maybe the professional making of videogames isn't for you either ? (as managing communication for that matter)

 

[pikachukaki]

First of all this isnt a game its an graphics engine beta testing.

Also nothing works
Everything is just there to be there

And cause im bored to write again all those things i wrote but your forum keeps flagging them as spam

At lease release the mods so some others can make this thing you relase somewhat playable

 

[PixelPolygonal]

If you dislike the simulation, this game just might not be for you.

This is honestly why you shouldn't let the CEOs of companies speak for the devs.

Disliking the simulation does not literally mean that the gameplay sucks. But rather literally that the game's rushed release resulted in a simulation that has numerous balance issues and glitches that hinders the intended gameplay from the devs.

 

[CapnBludd]

Out of curiosity what specifically in the building part is lacking, is it the amount of content or the tools or the simulation and how it behaves? Of course the marketing line is rather grand and the game does not yet have the same quantity of content than CS1 has. You may have shared the points that you don't enjoy in the game already so no need to repeat yourself only to spoil my curiosity if you don't feel like it!

When it comes to the bugs reported we have the team looking into them and I think some of you may find the next patch fixing some of the things bugging you. Not all, but some.

As to the buildings, yes content is lacking. The base game should have had multiple models for schools, administrative buildings, police, and fire. The welfare office should have had smaller buildings in the way that the police and fire stations have the large and small unlocks.While there will be assets made by modders for these things you had years of development to make multiple assets for the base game. Just yesterday I realized that there is no bridge for the 4-lane bidirectional highway, while you included a bridge for every version of the single directional highway. You have no two way single metro track, while a two way rail track was properly included.

You have no small rail stations, you have no through stations for cargo, only one way terminals. The seaport can only have the rail upgrade on one side limiting how it can be placed and forcing an unnecessary routing of railway track if the track isn't already coming from the same side as the one built in.

Tools, lack of the make bridge, make tunnel, make slope feature when making roads.

I don't hate CS2, I wanted it to have learned from all the things that modders had to fix in CS1 and pull those important things into the base game, but here we are.

I'm playing it because I want it to be better and what happens it that the longer I play the more I find stuff missing like the bridge for the highway, or that the battery backup always has the generator making pollution even when the battery is fully charged, or that adding the observation platform to the water tower doesn't add the entertainment value it says it does, or that the firehouse 4 blocks away doesn't respond to a house fire but instead a fire helicopter responded from all the way across the city.

Be better.

 

[TheLazyHangman]

When it comes to the gameplay and simulation we set goals for the game and we have reached those goals.
Surely there are issues that we're looking into and fixing bugs, but the overall gameplay experience is what we aimed for. Cities: Skylines II is the better game compared to the first one. If you dislike the simulation, this game just might not be for you. If there is a bug that ruins it for you there's a good chance it's fixed sometime in the future. Games are a subjective experience and it is impossible to please everyone. There's a bugfixing patch on its way soon however, so hopefully we'll be able to resolve at least some of the issues that may be a deal breaker for some. We thank you for your patience!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I search for confirmed bugs in the related section of the Forum, I can see 20 pages of results. At 20 threads per page, it adds up to ~400 confirmed bugs. This thread (also posted on Reddit), does a good job of collecting the most common and invasive gameplay and simulation-related bugs, and I honestly can't wrap my head around the fact that the current status of the game can be considered a success according to today's industry standards.
What bothers me the most, is that many of the mentioned bugs are about gameplay mechanics that got somehow worse compared to CS1 (UI information, land value, production chain, export, education, ignored traffic rules, etc.).
I don't really see how CS2 can objectively be viewed as a better overall gameplay experience compared to the first one, other than road tools and photo mode maybe.

 

[Surge72]

I apologize for the formulation of my response above. My intent was to point out that while we do our best to improve the game we will never be able to please absolutely everyone. We are fixing bugs and improving the game combining our vision with the feedback and bug reports we're getting from you, the community.

As I said it's disappointing we weren't able to meet the expectations that were set by the stellar marketing campaign and the success of the first game. However working together with you is the best part of creating games, and together we can make Cities: Skylines II the best it can be. I truly believe that.

Nope. Sorry, but I don't accept it. As others have pointed out, you are clearly trying to back track, rather than clarify with a completely different meaning.

You have 100% mis-sold your game, going hard on the simulation aspect in all of your material, yet it is the most irrelevant part of the game.

What you have sold as a deep simulation is in fact a city painter.