CO Word of the Week #9

[The Autobahn Dude]

Kinda. The thing is a bit different than on something like CP2077 as it's way more complex on a simulation side of things. CP2077 is pretty much straight forward as besides some vehicles and pedestrians within a really limited range everything is scripted.

On C:S2 everything is pretty much dynamic so there is much more potential to break something and much more time needed to polish stuff. However, ofc, if most things are polished the game will shine - that's basically granted as there is no other city builder around which comes close to this level. As you already pointed out the game runs fine (not perfect) for many players already. Some different hardware combinations and driver versions might currently be an issue which has to be found and patched.

Of course, it's comparing apples to oranges when you look "inside" and on the more technical side of things. You got so many things behind the scenes that are so much more complex than simply strolling through night city. I was more talking about what the enduser sees at the end of the day of the whole situation.

It's not up to "us" to decide when people are allowed to take their time off. If they are already exhausted it's better to step away, get a clear mind again and start working recharged. Some of the team might also not have taken full 4 weeks off and instead still have started earlier again, however it's a game we talk about and while it is not convincing for players to wait for some fixes it's still not a life threating situation. As you compared to CP2077: CDPR actually let people work in crunch before initial release and it did certainly not make things better.

Thats why I worded that part more carefully, because its a rather thin line and I'm kinda unsure. Crunsh is not substainable, sure and people of course need time to recharge their batteries. It's just that for me the whole situation feels a little bit hectic after their break. But for all I know it could also have been that way even when they would not have taken that break, noone can tell.

 

[Rostan]

The number of major bugs or unfinished features in this game makes it abysmal to play. Among the big issues I would mention the high rent issue (when choices of cheaper houses are available), the exports bug, the tax numbers flipping about and the imbalanced residential demand (0 for long periods of time for certain densities, cims often prefering just one density/model). And on top of that the general/simulation performance. Which, while improved, is still less than ideal.

One of these major issues is addressed in this word of the week, and that is about it. Sadly, the game can only be considered properly playable when mosr or all have been tackled.

 

[Mdizzl3]

Thanks for the update but I am left pretty deflated by your message.

I'm a long term fan of the series but I feel different today.

The extremely long delay to modding (which was previously suggested that it would very closely follow the launch date) is probably a step too far.

Performance as we all know is sub par and deserves to be front an centre of your updates. It is very worrying that it isn't.

Simulation is very shallow and quite often doesn't work as intented or expected. These issues need to be resolved as soon as possible and continuously communicated about. This is a simulation game after all.


I'm really gutted for your team, I think they have a huge hill to climb, a hill that perhaps could have been avoided by holding back the game and releasing when in better shape.


Please create a roadmap, an infographic or a tracker to show us when to expect this game to improve and be added to. If you want to see a good example of this, look at the work down by the Flight Simulator 2020 team. They track all major issues and feature requests and give estimates on which patch they will arrive in. They also publish a roadmap of what they are working on.


A once a week news article isn't going to cut it if you don't want your remaining player base to give up on you

 

[VineFynn]

Why on earth are you porting the game to console when it's in such a sorry state? Let alone making it a top priority? All you'll do is add console players to your list of pissed-off/ripped-off customers.

 

[unmerged(524934)]

Why on earth are you porting the game to console when it's in such a sorry state? Let alone making it a top priority? All you'll do is add console players to your list of pissed-off/ripped-off customers.

I honestly can't see the console version(s) happening - at some point we'll get a WotW where @co_martsu will have to admit that it's beyond them (or maybe @co_avanya will be given the job since Mariina doesn't seem quite as willing to engage below the line as she was previously). It won't be for lack of effort, and I'm sure PDX are heavily invested in making it happen, to put it mildly... but no, given where this game is right now, it's just too much of a stretch to think that they'll ever be able to get it to run on consoles.

 

[SuTu7]

Sadly im verry disappointed like everyone here. After 3 months we are still where we started "we will fix it but no timeline since we dont want to make promises".
Seems like everything they do is to focus on that console launch to make more money and taking care of the gameplay bugs is just secondary. I think it's time for me to put on the side the game and uninstall it. Verry verry disappointed

 

[Mdizzl3]

I honestly can't see the console version(s) happening - at some point we'll get a WotW where @co_martsu will have to admit that it's beyond them (or maybe co_avanya will be given the job since Mariina doesn't seem quite as willing to engage below the line as she was previously). It won't be for lack of effort, and I'm sure PDX are heavily invested in making it happen, to put it mildly... but no, given where this game is right now, it's just too much of a stretch to think that they'll ever be able to get it to run on consoles.

Yeah and let's be honest, even if it does release on console and they some how resolve the performance issues, the game is still fundamentally broken. So many elements of the simulation model are missing, faked or simply don't work. The console version won't even have code mods to fix things like they will on PC.

 

[pilotWeb]

Sorry, asset import issue to be solved in 6-12 months - it is not an issue or bug, but "I don't know what to do with it" thingy. I would guess either someone knowledgeable left the team as was speculated in the thread, or there was no such person in the team altogether

 

[Lyken2010]

There is only one reason why CO cant give any accurate ETA for fixes or timelines for new things and insist on playing "words" game....this game is so fundamentally broken that there are no easy fixes ....apart from the lonely dogs on the streets...

 

[anydaytv]

Been staring at the Unity engine version in my crash log.

Version: 2022.3.7f1
Released: August 8, 2023

So, the engine base was put in two months before it shipped?
First. To the programmers: Wow! That's impressive.
I realize you prototyped before that, but seriously.
That's actually pretty quick for being on concrete such a short amount of time.

... Wow!..

 

[BoraBora]

If the assets have a sensible number of triangles they should be OK. The question is whether CO has learned how to not severely over-engineer objects that should be very simple.

These assets are not made by CO, they're from top modders all over the world. Anyway, have you ever played CS 1 with thousands of assets? Like many people I did, but that's definitely not for the casual gamer. You'd need a Find It mod and nobody would use all of them in a single build. Better to let people choose which assets they want.

 

[Abitus]

Been staring at the Unity engine version in my crash log.

Version: 2022.3.7f1
Released: August 8, 2023

So, the engine base was put in two months before it shipped?
First. To the programmers: Wow! That's impressive.
I realize you prototyped before that, but seriously.
That's actually pretty quick for being on concrete such a short amount of time.

... Wow!..

I know nothing about Unity versions but : maybe this is just a minor version containing only bugfixes, based on a major version released long ago (2022 from the version tag apparently) ?

In that case it would be a bit less worrying.

EDIT : I quickly checked. 2022.3.0 is from May 30, 2023. Assuming this version didn't break backward compatibility (I'm too lazy to read changelogs at the moment sorry), the important version to take into account was propably 2022.1.0, from May 9, 2022. It's a more reasonable delay to test the game on that version.

 

[NightWish36]

These assets are not made by CO, they're from top modders all over the world. Anyway, have you ever played CS 1 with thousands of assets? Like many people I did, but that's definitely not for the casual gamer. You'd need a Find It mod and nobody would use all of them in a single build. Better to let people choose which assets they want.

I disagree, these should be things that should be included in the game and that you can turn on and off at will. The error occurs when the mod maker does not update the mod with every game update or is not compatible with the game. It doesn't solve this either

There are many incomplatible mods in the steam library.Mods are must complatible the game version

 

[Diacritic]

The tax bug broke me, honestly. I was really gung ho and it felt like 15f was at least playable and interesting, but 18f is a huge backslide and I am just not really looking forward to the next patch, which sounds like it'll only even address that issue if we're lucky.

 

[unmerged(524934)]

I know nothing about Unity versions but : maybe this is just a minor version containing only bugfixes, based on a major version released long ago (2022 from the version tag apparently) ?

In that case it would be a bit less worrying.

EDIT : I quickly checked. 2022.3.0 is from May 30, 2023. Assuming this version didn't break backward compatibility (I'm too lazy to read changelogs at the moment sorry), the important version to take into account was propably 2022.1.0, from May 9, 2022. It's a more reasonable delay to test the game on that version.

What is this strange "test the game" concept you are suggesting here my friend? Why, I declare I've never heard of such a thing.

 

[Abitus]

What is this strange "test the game" concept you are suggesting here my friend? Why, I declare I've never heard of such a thing.

Sorry, rectification : to test the new road tools and ignore the rest

 

[Swordsman1219]

Anyone else notice how quickly the powers that be tend to drop these loooovely updates on the community only to then disappear and not answer for the justifiably negative response their piss poor performance generates?

 

[anydaytv]

I know nothing about Unity versions but : maybe this is just a minor version containing only bugfixes, based on a major version released long ago (2022 from the version tag apparently) ?

In that case it would be a bit less worrying.

EDIT : I quickly checked. 2022.3.0 is from May 30, 2023. Assuming this version didn't break backward compatibility (I'm too lazy to read changelogs at the moment sorry), the important version to take into account was propably 2022.1.0, from May 9, 2022. It's a more reasonable delay to test the game on that version.

I dunno man, all I know is if you want to throw an atomic bomb into any software meeting... Just mention the idea of updating the dependencies on the project.
Don't forget to bring a shield.

 

[DonJorge]

I am extremely disappointed with this news.

As an avid CS1 player, I was lured into buying and experimenting CS2 and discovered two things. On one hand, you guys attempted a very large overhaul of what already is a complex and ambitious game. On the other hand, it feels like it is too large a project for a dozen developers in Finland, and it is probable, even likely, that you guys will never get to see it come true.

By attempting this very large endeavor, you are alienating people like me, that feel compelled to either go back to CS1 (which will probably feel old now) or try other games. Playing CS2 now seems dull, with such a limited offer of assets and options and I've become bored with it at this point. I played CS1 with thousands of assets, developed residential complexes, golf clubs, commercial districts with large malls and recognized brands. I bought a dozen DLCs and had a lot of fun. You guys killed all that with a buggy game that does fantastic photos of the same skylines over and over again.

My recommendation, as a former colleague (I used to run a successful Saas company in LATAM) is that you guys accelerate hiring and pursue partnerships, because it feels that you just can't cope with the size of this project and ultimately will fail.

 

[Abitus]

I dunno man, all I know is if you want to throw an atomic bomb into any software meeting... Just mention the idea of updating the dependencies on the project.
Don't forget to bring a shield.

Yeah I'm familiar with these situations. But maybe we can assume that after all these years, they know Unity well enough to be confident with quickly upgrading from one minor version to another. Maybe.

I'm not particularly looking to play the devil's advocate here, I just think that the fiasco is probably more management/business originated than dev originated. At least I hope it is, but it's true that without an honest comunication from the start, we can only speculate about this.