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Conclave Dev Diary #1

Hi folks, I hope you have all had a nice and relaxing holiday! However, just in case you didn’t, let me take the edge off your existential angst with some soothing talk about the next expansion for Crusader Kings II; a little thing we eventually decided to call Conclave...

As you know, most of CK2’s expansions have “widened” the gameplay by unlocking new regions of the map and making various religions playable. You can now start the game in widely different cultural spheres for a great variety of different experiences; “Fifty Shades of Dark”, if you will. Meanwhile, we have gradually improved the core gameplay in patches (e.g. the technology system), but rarely in any radical way. Whenever we did try to “deepen” the core gameplay in an expansion, it often turned out to be a mistake: The Retinue mechanic of Legacy of Rome should, for example, have been a part of the base game so we could have kept building upon it.

Even so, it is high time that we addressed some of the major shortcomings of the strategy game that underpins the RPG experience. In particular, CK2 suffers from a kind of inverse difficulty progression; it is hard in the beginning and easy in the mid-to-late game. This is a great shame, because one of the main points of the whole feudal hierarchy mechanic - the need to rely on vassals - was to make it hard to maintain stable large Realms. So, my first and foremost intention with Conclave was to increase the challenge of the mid-to-late game. This was the general plan of action:

  • Reduce the “positive opinion inflation” of vassals vs their liege. (We ended up cutting many important positive opinion modifiers in half.)
  • Highlight the most powerful vassals by making them strongly desire a Council seat.
  • Give the Council more power without reducing player agency. (You are free to disregard the Council’s suggestions, but this will have ramifications on Factions. More on this later...)
  • Introduce Infamy and Coalitions against aggressively expanding Realms.
  • Improve the alliance mechanic to make it a more intentional choice. (A royal marriage is now simply a non-aggression pact. Alliance is the second step, but still requires a marriage.)
  • Improve the diplomatic AI in order to contain “blobs” (with the help of the above Alliance and Coalition systems.)
  • Bring the military AI to a whole new level.
  • Make it harder to quickly win wars through one or two major engagements. (Hence, we reduced the bloodiness of battles overall, introduced “shattered retreats” and made armies reinforce in friendly territory.)
Crusader Kings II - Conclave - Obligations.jpg


Thus, the features of Conclave and the accompanying patch are a combination of internal and external measures to make blobbing harder. This intention had ripple effects on other mechanics. For example, malcontents now tend to gang up into fewer but more powerful Factions, and we reworked the Law Screen while we were adding the new Council Power laws.

Crusader Kings II - Conclave - Council.jpg


We also took this opportunity to address an unrelated weakness in the game, namely the education of children. If you have the expansion, that whole experience should now be more interesting…

That’s all for now, stay tuned for the details!
 
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Coalitions don't really make sense in CK2. The mechanic is already represented by the fact that certain CBs should trigger neighbours or co-religionists to come to your aid. By all means, I think those mechanics deserve expanding, but having those _plus_ Coalition mechanics is simply going to get messy, in my opinion.
 
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Coalitions don't really make sense in CK2. The mechanic is already represented by the fact that certain CBs should trigger neighbours or co-religionists to come to your aid. By all means, I think those mechanics deserve expanding, but having those _plus_ Coalition mechanics is simply going to get messy, in my opinion.

I agree. To be honest, the whole coalition/infamy thing seems like a way to shoehorn in EUIV mechanics.
 
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Nice catch, but I think that's a Cuman face with the Russian culture.

If you look at the character's parents though, the father clearly has a Russian portrait for his father. Anyone knows if a child with a Muslim-faced parent and a Slavic-faced one can turn out Cuman?

But one shouldn't also dismiss the possibility that this character's appearance is a result of the dreaded seduction focus, with his mother potentially having a Cuman lover.

I actually don't think those portraits are the Cuman portraits since the hair and facial hair seems to be different from the Cuman portraits. The skin color also seems to be lighter than the Cuman portraits.

edit: Yes, it seems like the Cuman portraits lack both the hair and the beard seen in the screenshot.
 
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View attachment 153743
Privilege of being a dev.
Long live Prutt-Bert the Drunkard of the Guideschi! Long may he reign!

My own council hates my guts and that bastard the King of Italy, Frédéric of the Karlings still will not let me into his Council. He fears the strength the duke of Spoleto has on the Italian Peninsula. I'll have to settle for taking the Sicilian island of the hands of the Mohammedans.

Update:
Rageair has formed the Sunni Empire of Jardarus which borders the mighty Knytling Kingdom of Denmark ruled by the Aesir worshipping King Knut.
View attachment 153754

And I finished my reclamation of Sicily and handed it out to be ruled by my younger brother Fjant-Frants. Now since the King of Italy still refuses to give me my place in the council its time to start plotting to create my own Kingdom of Sicily....That fool will regret the day he refused my will!
View attachment 153755
Wait did rukrik become a vampire when I wasn't looking... I hope those aren't faces you hope to sell, they look utterly ridicolous.

Are those some redone russian portraits I see there?
Probalby ot Rurik wasn't of russian ethnicity was he? Or os another Rurik. Anyway if those are russian faces then we've really traded down.
 
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Wait did rukrik become a vampire when I wasn't looking... I hope those aren't faces you hope to sell, they look utterly ridicolous.


Probalby ot Rurik wasn't of russian ethnicity was he? Or os another Rurik. Anyway if those are russian faces then we've really traded down.

Since the wife of Rurik uses the norse portraits, I would assume that the Rurik in the screenshot has the russian ethnicity.
 
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The ERE (Byzantine Romans) was never a feudal system.

1)
Revoking a Theme title or a County title each costs Prestige and an opinion malus just with the administrating character of the title (like with themes now).

The amount of prestige depends on how many vice-royalty counties and theme titles are held by the title holder.
It would also depend on how many counts are under him.
The more powerful the viceroy, the more prestige the revocation costs. The more titles you revoke from the same character, the more each revocation costs.

a) this would mean that if you give an administrator a theme, and he has a good stewardship stat, he might revoke counts under him (for an opinion malus with his other underlings unlike the prestige system of the emperor).

This would mean that if you revoke the Theme from him, he is still just as powerful and a threat, so you would either need to place him under another strategos or revoke all his county viceroyalties. This would of course keep encouraging a rebellion.

b) this would be a path to a powerful viceroy declaring a title hereditary.

2) If you allow a Theme level viceroy to become too powerful, with multiple themes and counts, he may invest prestige to demand the title as a family title, to pass down to his children.

If you do this, every viceroy that likes him gets an opinion boost, and he and his progeny get opinion boosts.

However, this will encourage further requests, more counties, even the theme itself, and denying these requests will eventually erase that opinion boost, remove the hereditary opinion boost towards the royal family, and anger them and their allies.

3) This would result in a hybrid system of l powerful semi-feudal landholding families mixed with Strategoi and Provincial County Administrators. Basically: what it currently looks like, except more messy.

Landowners and Viceroyalties would also have separate laws. You could set Landholders at max manpower and viceroys at max tax, for instance.

4) Exarchs would be the same as now, just a smaller universal malus if revoked, and a major prestige hit. Exarchs would not ask for any additional land as an inheritance.
This is a benefit because you can keep your viceroys content, but you are still giving an individual tremendous power over a large region which might bite you in the rear later.

5) Diminishing returns from granting multiple viceroys. So, all opinion bonuses should be reduced for viceroy grants; they also should only stack with diminishing returns.
Granting a vice-royalty would give a small malus like now (but higher), but only among other viceroys, and only if you are granting the vice-royalty to a character who already has a title.

6) Viceroys should not provide levies, instead they should contribute manpower (using the levy/tax scale earlier) to standing armies that function like retinues but cost much less per unit (but also cost prestige to form, as well as draw from that manpower pool) and can become loyal to their assigned middle general. The same would be true of Clergy and Republics: tax or manpower; not levies.

After a certain amount of loyalty, attempts to divide the standing army, reassign the general, or other actions might result in them defecting to that general depending on how powerful that General is as a vassal/viceroy of the ERE. (Inspired by the EU: Rome army loyalty like system)

Retinues of the Emperor would still exist as would the Varangian Guard; and these would remain loyal to just the Emperor.

7) Viceroys would still have levies they can call, the size of which would depending on how much manpower they are donating to the central standing armies.

This would allow viceroys to actually rise up and defend their themes when attacked, but their armies would not be controlled by the Player/Emperor.

(They would basically act like how tribes or hordes can call their underlings to war, except weaker. and limited by how much of their manpower is being drawn towards the standing armies of the Emperor).

However: only the themes/counties actively being attacked and the allies of those themes/counties would rise up to defend.

The only way the entire empire would raise the local levies of the themes would be if a jihad is called against the ERE, or if a Horde declares a war for the title of the ERE.

Again, these armies would be small if the Emperor has set the manpower commitments of the Strategoi to max.

Such system should have it's own drawbacks and have mechanics of going into decline like Roman Empire did. Army defecting to general is a very good idea that helps, needs more. It also should be kind of hard to not go into decline. Right now conquering the world in 400 years and holding such realm is too easy, if tedious, should be the other way. Guess the way for it to at least not be tedious is being able to make AI move my armies during my 10 holy wars that I launch simulteneous every 5 years when big enough...
 
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Since the wife of Rurik uses the norse portraits, I would assume that the Rurik in the screenshot has the russian ethnicity.
Well I guess I'll have to call in a dutch scholar to deal with the problem, that or go looking for the soil of the homeland or something.
 
Moreover, I think you should find a way to hinder the aquisition of non-border or distant border lands, because in the late game the map becomes a mess
Perhaps make it so that exclaves give less money and leavies.
 
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Thats a possibility, but i don't think that a russian ruler would use west slavic portraits and I don't think he's a bastard since his father seems to use the same set of portraits.
Well, whatever that is, I know 2 things:
1. I would love to see unique portraits for South&West Slavs
2. Groogy always tries his best to troll us. Anything is possible. :D
 
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