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Conclave Dev Diary #1

Hi folks, I hope you have all had a nice and relaxing holiday! However, just in case you didn’t, let me take the edge off your existential angst with some soothing talk about the next expansion for Crusader Kings II; a little thing we eventually decided to call Conclave...

As you know, most of CK2’s expansions have “widened” the gameplay by unlocking new regions of the map and making various religions playable. You can now start the game in widely different cultural spheres for a great variety of different experiences; “Fifty Shades of Dark”, if you will. Meanwhile, we have gradually improved the core gameplay in patches (e.g. the technology system), but rarely in any radical way. Whenever we did try to “deepen” the core gameplay in an expansion, it often turned out to be a mistake: The Retinue mechanic of Legacy of Rome should, for example, have been a part of the base game so we could have kept building upon it.

Even so, it is high time that we addressed some of the major shortcomings of the strategy game that underpins the RPG experience. In particular, CK2 suffers from a kind of inverse difficulty progression; it is hard in the beginning and easy in the mid-to-late game. This is a great shame, because one of the main points of the whole feudal hierarchy mechanic - the need to rely on vassals - was to make it hard to maintain stable large Realms. So, my first and foremost intention with Conclave was to increase the challenge of the mid-to-late game. This was the general plan of action:

  • Reduce the “positive opinion inflation” of vassals vs their liege. (We ended up cutting many important positive opinion modifiers in half.)
  • Highlight the most powerful vassals by making them strongly desire a Council seat.
  • Give the Council more power without reducing player agency. (You are free to disregard the Council’s suggestions, but this will have ramifications on Factions. More on this later...)
  • Introduce Infamy and Coalitions against aggressively expanding Realms.
  • Improve the alliance mechanic to make it a more intentional choice. (A royal marriage is now simply a non-aggression pact. Alliance is the second step, but still requires a marriage.)
  • Improve the diplomatic AI in order to contain “blobs” (with the help of the above Alliance and Coalition systems.)
  • Bring the military AI to a whole new level.
  • Make it harder to quickly win wars through one or two major engagements. (Hence, we reduced the bloodiness of battles overall, introduced “shattered retreats” and made armies reinforce in friendly territory.)
Crusader Kings II - Conclave - Obligations.jpg


Thus, the features of Conclave and the accompanying patch are a combination of internal and external measures to make blobbing harder. This intention had ripple effects on other mechanics. For example, malcontents now tend to gang up into fewer but more powerful Factions, and we reworked the Law Screen while we were adding the new Council Power laws.

Crusader Kings II - Conclave - Council.jpg


We also took this opportunity to address an unrelated weakness in the game, namely the education of children. If you have the expansion, that whole experience should now be more interesting…

That’s all for now, stay tuned for the details!
 
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Well playing as a vassal working requires that the AI ins't a comple moron as your liege. But having played a game as a vassal of the HRE recently I cna tell you that isn't the case. He seems to give titles and transfer vassals totally at random.

Yes actually, playing as a vassal is fun only if your liege is just big enough to be a challenge and a long term goal. But if he does too good the game is juts going to be boring because you'll quickly be locked down and at the mercy of events.
What we need is proper AI realm management, because there's no denying the AI can't play this game, they can't handle succession at all and usually all the do is declare wars on easy target and retarding around, marrying his sons matrilinearly and getting fucked by gavelkind.

And then we need good vassal, and internal realm management mechanics, which seems this DLC is all about.
Vassals (right now) have little to no power game, they have no way to play in the big dog court untill they become top liege, and that's boring, even inside of the realm, best they can do is try to slowly eat your neighbors and consolidate power while being a bitch to your liege and not getting caught.
There could be much more than that.

But fortunately this DLC sounds good for now so let's pray it'll not be as broken as the previous ones on launch.
 
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As someone who bought LoR, please put Retinues in the base game and expand upon them.
I said this before, but I'll just say it again. I absolutely agree. Maybe we should make a thread where we brainstorm on what could be given to LoR owners to make the few who would care okay with the change too.
 
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Whenever we did try to “deepen” the core gameplay in an expansion, it often turned out to be a mistake: The Retinue mechanic of Legacy of Rome should, for example, have been a part of the base game so we could have kept building upon it.

Why not? At this point most of us have already bought LoR or wait for it to go to 2$ on a steam sale.

Actually thinking about that making certain expansions part of CK2's "base game" would make a lot of sense. There are so many expansions at this point i have a hard time convincing friends to get in because the DLC list is so daunting. Between finding out which are the "relevant dlc" and the 30$ price tag even on a steam sale, they dont even want to start.

Sword of Islam, Legacy of Rome, and the Republic consist as the "base game" in terms of the most important mechanics and features. all have great mechanic ideas but need to be fleshed out farther (you added navigable rivers in Old Gods, yet we still cant play as inland republics such as hamburg and novgorod). I think most us early adopters would be happy to see these playable groups get improved and expanded with each new expansion and patch.
 
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Proper conduct would tell you to state in your sig who made the quote.

Oh shiet, I hadn't even noticed quote code don't work in signatures anymore. I have no clue who made the first one xD
 
If I read it correctly, you are paying to have more intereactions with your council (they voting laws, managing regencies, vassals being more proactive on being vouncillors) and have eduction foci. All the rest seems to be free patch content.
Not sure if that is worth $15. I might have to wait and see on this DLC.
 
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But yeah even if lot's of people would say they would be ok with moving retinues to the basegame, Paradox still probably wouldn't do it
There is still the silent majority, who doesn't read the forum and could get pissed, also there are probably some legal pitfalls.

what if they did a EU3 and made "CK2: almost done but not quite there" complete pack with the first 3-4 expansions, start phasing out purchase of CK2 plain, maybe give the people with all the relevent expansions on their forum tags keys to CK2 "complete" and just start patching that.
 
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He wouldn't go around collecting taxes himself though

No, but he would have to personally go to the province in question to formulate a strategy and to "motivate" the local tax collectors.
 
Oh shiet, I hadn't even noticed quote code don't work in signatures anymore. I have no clue who made the first one xD
For another time then such quotes can be found in two seconds with a site specific google search; I believe it must be this post you had sigged. Also did quote code ever work properly in sigs?

Colonial nations are good. Just be sure to look after them when they are young, keep some troops around. They may need help fighting natives and the like.

And when conquering provinces for them, do pay attention to overextension, dont take all at once. No wonder they get rebel problems is you just feeded them 40 basetax worth of Aztec land or all of the former Spanish Caribbean islands and they are sitting on 160% overextension, poor religious unity and have a new untrained army of 8000 soliders and three tradeships to fight with..

(Edit: typing from smartphone; fighting natives, not fisting.)


maybe give the people with all the relevent expansions on their forum tags keys to CK2 "complete" and just start patching that.
Probably would be a good idea to make a compilation of the first few expansions + base; and I wouldn't complain about getting yet another icon; one can never have enough!
Though TinyWiking recently said
I'm not super impressed with the sheer amount of icons for a single product (EUIII, EUIII Collection, EUIII Complete, EUIII Chronicles) and we will probably try and keep this "in check" for future releases, though it will be much easier now that it maps to Steam.
So I really doubt we will get such a "complete" icon for CKII.
 
Oh yeah, let's start that utterly confusing practice akin to EU3 Complete, which was anything but complete xD

Still, I think it's something to consider. dunno how much money PI still makes of the first DLCs, but I think it's a safe assumption that slowly "integrating" them in the base game would make handling a lot of things much easier. And potential new buyers wouldn't be shocked by that massive DLC list so much. Perhaps part of an updated DLC policy for CK3 then? ;)
 
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If they bought LoR last week... no they don't enjoyed retinues for all the time.

Maybe set the DLC on a free track, where it gets cheaper gradually until eventually it becomes free? As convoluted as this sounds, this problem is an obstacle to so many great ideas that could be implemented in the game.
 
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For another time then such quotes can be found in two seconds with a site specific google search; I believe it must be this post you had sigged. Also did quote code ever work properly in sigs?

Why thank you unknown helper! I'm quite positive quotes worked in signatures, but at any rate they don't now. So credits added :)
 
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Shouldn't "addressing some of the major shortcomings" be called Patch, instead of DLC?
I would personally say no, given that this is not fixing/improving the base game, but rather adding more functionalities that goes hand to hand with it.
 
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Whenever we did try to “deepen” the core gameplay in an expansion, it often turned out to be a mistake: The Retinue mechanic of Legacy of Rome should, for example, have been a part of the base game so we could have kept building upon it.

Wasn't this the biggest objection from us forumites, back when PDX announced the new expansion/DLC policy a few years back? By making expansions small and "optional", you are severely limiting what you can do to improve and expand on the base game in the expansions.
 
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This looks great, i know many are very satisfied with this news! I think it's safe to say that most of us have been waiting for something like this for a long time. Hopefully it has a good balance when released, lol. I'm seeing councils being a huge problem initially, but that's how it goes. New stuff comes out of the gate a little OP and then gets toned down after we blow up this forum :p

Regarding the last comment about the education of children being a weakness in game... I really hope this doesn't mean intent to make education "more difficult". In my experience, even while educating as a character with the highest tier education traits, high skill in area of education, high learning, AND good perks (diligent, ambitious) i STILL often manage to produce wards who end up with one of the two lowest tier education traits, many times from a completely different area of expertise than mine (I'm a Grey Eminence and produce a Flamboyant Schemer)... I feel like education is fine as is really! I am never in short supply of terrible dynasty members who destroy my realm once they inherit titles.