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Hello everyone, I'm Tegus, one of the programmers working on Crusader
Kings II. Welcome to the fifth dev diary for CK2 and the first one written
by me. In today's dev diary I'm going to talk a bit about the map and why
we've chosen to implement a new one in CK2.

As you all know, in our games the map is an important tool for both
displaying information and setting the mood of the game. In HoI3 we had a
grayish map that we felt was appropriate for a war game. We took this map
and altered it slightly when making Victoria 2, but this time the map was
drawn with vivid colors to portray the progress of the era. The next game to
use the map was Divine Wind because we all felt that EU3 was in need of a
graphical face lift. While this map technology looked good in the
mentioned games, there were certain technological limitations which we
wanted to improve upon or get rid of.

With CK2, we have devoted time to rewrite the graphics code for the map
from scratch. We are back to a pure 3D map similar to the one used in EU3:
Rome. We have visible topology and you will be able to rotate the world
around the way you please. While neither the technology nor the art assets
are in any way final, we do feel that the new map already has great
potential and is a big step in the right direction towards our visual
goals. Hopefully this new tech will also span multiple games, so we
can steadily improve it.

crusader_kings_2_devdiary_5_ss1.jpg

To be fair, if I would describe what we have done with the map so far, it
would just be sentence after sentence of technical mumbo-jumbo, so I'll
spare you the details. Let's instead focus on what visual details that
have been improved and what we want to add before the game is shipped.

We've improved the looks of the water significantly and added refraction
so you can actually see topology under the ocean surface. Aerie has taken
the time to find real-world topology data(although we've exaggerated it
somewhat), it definitely gives a cool feel to the terrain. Borders have
also gotten some love and now use a new system which enables us to make
them much smoother. Much of the previous jaggedness is gone. We've also
begun to implement and test a more detailed lighting model, which we will
continue to improve upon until we release the game. Another cool
feature(which isn't really part of the map) are the units, whose tabards
now show the heraldic flag of the unit leader.

crusader_kings_2_devdiary_5_ss2.jpg

But there are still some things which we're missing. We need trees and
rivers. We need to add province names and realm names, which exist in all
our latest games. I'd like to add more information to borders, so borders
between two realms are colored by the realms' respective colors. There are
of course lots of more things we want to do, but I won't spill the beans
just yet.

crusader_kings_2_devdiary_5_ss3.jpg

All in all, we are very happy with the way the new map is coming along.
Hopefully you will enjoy it as well once you get to play the game!

Fredrik Zetterman, Deluxe programmer, currently working on Crusader Kings
II
 
Maybe you (paradox) can "mirror" the animation so its only a copy of the original. Nba 2k games (lika nba2k) have the stadium`s crowd like this. A lot of viewers are doing the same, are the same model, but when playing, you didnt care, and its a very nice effect.

example:
http://www.monodetrescabezas.com/wp-content/gallery/nba2k10/nba-2k10-2-large.jpg
http://nba-live.com/jaosming/nba2k10 2009-10-26 07-38-02-67.jpg

Sorry, i could not explain better with my current level of english.

this type of stuff (crowd simulation) requires nice graphics hardware or it will be heavier than just rendering a single guy. and those examples are 2d spirites which makes it a lot easier.
 
this type of stuff (crowd simulation) requires nice graphics hardware or it will be heavier than just rendering a single guy. and those examples are 2d spirites which makes it a lot easier.

Thx for the answer. But they are 3d models (with a lot less poly than the nba players of course, also, if you set low crowd quality, then they convert in 2d flat sprites).

edit:

just to compare:

large image

nbacrowd.jpg

There are only 3 or 4 diferent models, but every person there has a diferent texture.

But yes, its rather hardware expensive.. maybe an option? :)
 
Last edited:
First of all, the tabards look awesome. :)

But, I'm a bit unsure about the map. A fully 3D map is a nice and all, but to me Paradox games aren't exactly about pretty graphics, they are about great gameplay.

I personally love the way the maps in V2 and EU3-DW look and I wasn't really a fan of the 3D map in EU-Rome.

So, I would like to know if the new map for CK2 does actually provide any advantages beyond the "Total War"-style zoom. Namely I'm looking for aspects that enhance or support CK's gameplay.

Thanks. :)
 
Rome: Total War was able to show hundreds of 3D units on the screen in 2004. I don't really see why you couldn't do the same thing in 2011, given that you have more computational power at your disposal than in 2004... and even if you didn't, the 2004 quality should be enough. The problem as I see it is that you're using needlessly detailed models: 25 bones? For what? And I can only assume the number of polygons will be quite large too.

Now, don't get me wrong. If you gave a response like this...
"We can either have a low number of high-detailed models, or a big number of low-quality models. We decided we like the former option more."
...that would be a perfectly acceptable answer and noone could argue with you.

However, you instead say "we can't have a big number of models because it's not technically possible" which, frankly, is difficult to believe.

EDIT: Note, I'm not trying to argue against single units. I understand that you simply like them more in terms of aesthetics, and also they allow you to show tabards which wouldn't be possible with small units. I just don't understand why you don't provide a straight answer like that.
 
Rome: Total War was able to show hundreds of 3D units on the screen in 2004. I don't really see why you couldn't do the same thing in 2011, given that you have more computational power at your disposal than in 2004... and even if you didn't, the 2004 quality should be enough. The problem as I see it is that you're using needlessly detailed models: 25 bones? For what? And I can only assume the number of polygons will be quite large too.

We're showing hundreds at the same time without any major problem. Just watch a big war in europe in hoi3, divine wind or victoria 2..

Its just.. why make the models 5-6x as complex just to show "an army", instead of a single unit where you can actually see DETAIL and INFORMATION about who's army it is, and what tech it has?
 
We're showing hundreds at the same time without any major problem. Just watch a big war in europe in hoi3, divine wind or victoria 2..

Its just.. why make the models 5-6x as complex just to show "an army", instead of a single unit where you can actually see DETAIL and INFORMATION about who's army it is, and what tech it has?

Will there be some graphical representation of army strength, without hovering the mouse over the army in question? Thanks.
 
We're showing hundreds at the same time without any major problem. Just watch a big war in europe in hoi3, divine wind or victoria 2..

Its just.. why make the models 5-6x as complex just to show "an army", instead of a single unit where you can actually see DETAIL and INFORMATION about who's army it is, and what tech it has?

+1 :) ... my thoughts exactly.
 
I asked this already but is the texture file for the terrain one big .dds like in Rome or is it similar to Divine Wind tiles and a texturesheet.
 
Yeah, in some way or another. What we'll show and how we'll show it is still undecided though, but there will be something to visualize sizes/morale/usual stuff.

Could be something like this. Chevrons are counts of 5,000 per (so, say if there are 30,000 soldiers in the army there will be 6 chevrons colored in). The stars could represent the main general's marshal skill level.

troopcount.jpg


:D
 
I think numbers would be easier to read than chevrons.
 
I think numbers would be easier to read than chevrons.

I thought about that, but if the dev's are trying to appeal to a broader audience I had a feeling that a stylish representation would be better for that. Although, if they had it in the options area in the game that you can select A) Show numbers, B) Show graphical, or C) Show nothing.. then it would please everyone. Pick whatever you want to have shown.
 
This style of chevrons and stars doesn't suit a Medieval game at all. For Vicky they would be perfect.

I prefer numbers. Roman numbers :p

Although I like Roman numbers, I disagree that they should be used. Not everyone knows what the numerals mean in the numbering system.

Indeed, Chevrons definitely don't fit in a Medieval game.

Could just use a flag measurement system, ala Total War. I was originally going to show just a rectangular cells (instead of chevrons), I wouldn't mind that either.