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Yesterday should have been a dev diary day, but I forgot that May 1 is actually some sort of Red holiday, and turning up to work gets you lined up against a wall and shot. However, this is not the time to discuss the mysterious idols, totems and faiths of the previous century. Let us instead think back much further, to simpler - if no less bloody - times, before Socialist May Day, before Christian Walpurgis Night, when the bonfires blazed for the Old Gods...

To begin with, religious Moral Authority has been revamped. The base value is now determined by the number of Holy Sites under the control of the religion. On top of this, there are various timed modifiers (think character opinions) for things like winning or losing holy wars, or building temples. This new system applies to all religions, not just the pagans. The pagan religions do tend to start with fewer Holy Sites under their control, but on the other hand there are no pagan heresies to worry about.

CKII_ToG_DD_04_Holy_Sites.jpg

Now, as mentioned in previous dev diaries, pagans enjoy a number of advantages, but they also suffer from some frustrating limitations. Foremost, perhaps, is that they are stuck with Gavelkind. Pagan vassals are also a lot more suspicious of new rulers on succession (harsher "short reign" opinions), they cannot demand conversion of vassals, and they are easily impressed by the cunning missionaries of the Abrahamic religions. To avoid these problems, pagans can of course simply give up the old ways and convert, but there is another option; pagan religions can be reformed in imitation of those clever monotheists. With a proper church hierarchy, a holy book, and standardized rituals, the pagan religions can become more competitive.

CKII_ToG_DD_04_Great_Holy_War.jpg

Reforming the faith is not easy; you need to control three of the holy sites and have a lot of Piety to boot. After reforming, your faith will be given a religious head. In the case of Norse Pagans, the character who conducted the reformation will become the Fylkir, serving as both secular ruler and religious leader in much the same way as an Islamic Caliph. You may now declare holy wars, both great pagan Crusades and regular religious wars against infidels. Other pagan religions get a vassal religious head, like the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople.

CKII_ToG_DD_04_Fylkirate.jpg

There are tradeoffs to reforming the faith, however. You will lose the Subjugation casus belli and the defensive home attrition, and the unreformed version of your religion will become a heresy (which can cause problems for you.) As a pagan, you will normally want to grow quickly using your invasion and subjugation CBs, and then try to either reform your religion or convert in order to consolidate and stabilize your realm...

That's all for now. Next week's topic is special pagan events and decisions!

[video=youtube;yoF84KVR9F8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoF84KVR9F8[/video]
[video=youtube_share;vYxB1O-XGk0]http://youtu.be/vYxB1O-XGk0[/video]

Bonus! Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods expansion in-depth Q&A at PC Gamer
Everything you want to know, but haven´t dared to ask?
“It’s less than a month until the longships land to bring us The Old Gods, the pagan-focused expansion for Crusader Kings II. We’ve been keeping close tabs on new details at our Viking Analysis Desk, and today, we’ve got some extra meaty details for you. Below you’ll find our massive Q&A with project lead Henrik Fåhraeus, covering everything from concubines to pagan sacred kings.”
Read the full Q&A here: http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/05/01/crusader-kings-2-the-old-gods-in-depth-qa/


Web page: http://www.crusaderkings.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/Crusaderkings
Twitter: http://twitter.com/Crusaderkings
 
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Because defensive pagans are in places where they're under more immediate threat, and would be wiped out rapidly if they were offensive. The aim is to be opportunistic and take back your holy sites to reform and declare Pagan Crusades.
 
The video dev diary implies that only pagans can raid and only Vikings can raid long distances... Does this mean the Magyars cannot raid any farther than border provinces, and the Moors cannot raid at all?

If raiding is just a certain kind of CB, or a few kinds of CBs with different requirements, it would be easy to mod it and allow Magyar and Saracen raids. But then it would be just as easy to add to the base game.

Or are the devs going to hold back on Barbary raiding until some social castes features? (Then they could represent slaves coming back from Europe and adding to the population of North African provinces.)
 
I think the Vikings being the only ones getting the long distance raiding has more to do with how the looting mechanic works. For the long distance raids, you need a ship in a neighboring sea zone, but there isn't really an equivalent for land based raiding, beyond owning the land next door.
 
I think the Vikings being the only ones getting the long distance raiding has more to do with how the looting mechanic works. For the long distance raids, you need a ship in a neighboring sea zone, but there isn't really an equivalent for land based raiding, beyond owning the land next door.

They could allow Tengris to carry loot on armies, that would allow them to go further afield. It wouldn't be unbalanced either, because the deeper into the HRE you go, or even just the enemies you make out of every state along the way could end up getting your army trapped and annihilated. Pretty hard to carry loot back through 5 hostile states, but if you can manage it then you can actually get historical looting. Seriously if they added Tengri army loot carrying ability the steppe nomads would have everything they need for a historical setup in that department. I started a thread about this a while back but it didn't get much traction so sadly, I think the Tengris won't be able to do any real raiding. :sad:
 
I am not sure what is the significance of Athens for Orthodoxy, I don't think it holds spiritual significance and it didn't have center of Christian learning. Mount Athos could be a worthy replacement for Athens.

Well, Athens did contribute significantly to the culture of the Orthodox religion through the 11th and 12th century churches built in the city and the art they contained. I would think the Daphni Monastery, 10km down the road from Athens, counts as a significant Christian and Orthodox site in addition. When you consider especially that the Daphni Monastery is a very physical symbol of the Christianization of Greece – being deliberately built over a sanctuary of Apollo and reusing columns from the former temple – then I think Athens becomes a fair choice overall.
 
Gavelkind? Shouldn't the norse be stuck with elective? (though to be historic, elective separately for each title).
At the duchy level all titles use the same succession, so elective would be one election for all titles, rather than election for each individual title. So I imagine that's why.
 
Because defensive pagans are in places where they're under more immediate threat, and would be wiped out rapidly if they were offensive. The aim is to be opportunistic and take back your holy sites to reform and declare Pagan Crusades.
Yeah but I would love to see some details about it. TOG still look slike "Viking DLC" too me, other pagans are marginalized I'm afraid (from what I saw).
 
Didn't they already state that TOG has its focus on the norse?
They did? :(
Crap. I have nothing against Norse and I'm sure it will be fun to play but damn it, there are other pagans as well folks :/
 
as far as i could see there is also alot of flavour from the other pagans. like the new graphical holdings and empire COA on the tengri, and Africa. Ofcourse they need to have their focus somewhere, so why not on the norse, that is the one of the most well known and iconic pagans.
 
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They did? :(
Crap. I have nothing against Norse and I'm sure it will be fun to play but damn it, there are other pagans as well folks :/

The devs did promise that the Zoroastrians and all the pagans - including them West Africans - will get unique flavor and mechanics of their own, but they implied that the Norse will be getting the most new unique flavor and mechanics, which is a pity. Before TOG and the new start date were announced, that's why some of us were vouching for different DLCs for different pagan groups. Oh well. I do dearly hope that all the new playable religious groups get some love. It does appear at least that the Zoroastrians will have some unique mechanics compared to everyone else, like Ahura Mazda-approved incest.
 
Okay, I just watched the Vikings TV series after weeks of procrastination... AND I NOW CANNOT WAIT FOR THIS DLC TO COME OUT!
 
It seemed to me a lack of respect to those who feel the importance of May the 1st as an international holiday.

Anyways, I am not aware of the quality of Scandinavian humor.

A lack of respect for the Soviet Union's old parades at red square? I guess I really am missing something, because that's about as much as the "holiday" means to most North Americans.
 
The devs did promise that the Zoroastrians and all the pagans - including them West Africans - will get unique flavor and mechanics of their own, but they implied that the Norse will be getting the most new unique flavor and mechanics, which is a pity. Before TOG and the new start date were announced, that's why some of us were vouching for different DLCs for different pagan groups. Oh well. I do dearly hope that all the new playable religious groups get some love. It does appear at least that the Zoroastrians will have some unique mechanics compared to everyone else, like Ahura Mazda-approved incest.
Exactly - I have nothing agains Norse or vikings. I just wanted to get a Pagan DLC, not a Awesome Cool Viking DLC With Some Minor Flavour For Whatstheirname :sigh:


180px-Polandball.PNG

I am of dissapoint​
 
I really like to play these games vanilla and not modded but at the same time ...
I REEEEEALLY would like a roman paganism option as improbable as it sounds the Idea of reconquering Italy in the name of Jupiter (and greece in the name of zeus for that matter) to me sounds like the most epic quest you can imagine on Crusader Kings.
I would teach those so called Holy roman Emperor and Byzantine emperor what it means to be emperor of Rome.... old school style.
At the colisseum my friends, we have christians to feed the lions with.

Ha, Osiris, Horus, and Seth might have a little something to say about these Greco-Roman upstarts stealing their show.