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Dev Diary #113 - Community Choice Event Pack

Greetings!

We’re all back, gathered from the holidays, and ready to set sail for 2023! Actually, most of us have been back for a few weeks by this point, working away on this year's big release, but we're not going to be talking about that just yet. That's not to say we're not going to in the future, but until we are ready to, we want to give you something to dig your teeth into as a community. This is the first of a small series of Dev Diaries about some more minor things, teasers, and today, about a brand-new community initiative!
But first, here’s a small teaser of something coming in the expansion:
teaser1.png

[Image - Teaser]

Later this year, after we’ve released the next big expansion and before we start working on the next large project, we’ll have a period where we have the time and opportunity to work on an event pack. For the last event pack we chose ‘friends and foes’ as the core theme, as it was something practically everyone in the team felt strongly about, and something that needed more content in the game. Since then, we’ve had so many ideas for future event packs, both from within the team and outside, and this time it’s harder to choose…

Therefore we’d like to invite all of you to help us decide which theme to pick! We have three themes that we’ve curated, which means a few things; each theme has designers on the team that are passionate about them, and we know roughly what free feature we’d like to add to the update that will accompany the event pack: generally we'll be aiming for something with a similar size and impact as Friends & Foes' Memories system, which heavily ties into the events we're making but is relevant across the game as a whole.

We don’t have final names for the event packs yet, but as we enjoy alliteration here’s what we’re calling them and a very brief description of each:

Wards & Wardens - Anything childhood-related, with themes such as: playing as a child, being a guardian, handling children in court, and so on. A deep dive into what being a child in the Middle Ages was actually like, and what guardianship meant in practical terms.

Love & Lust - An exploration of more intimate relationships, with themes such as: expanded seduction, romance, married life, and so on. This would be a great time to allow lovers and spouses to take on a larger role in the game.

Villains & Vagabonds - Events and content around Dread and Tyranny, exploring what it means to be dreaded, leveraging your fearsome reputation, making dread more visible, and the consequences and opportunities of being a tyrant. It’d also be interesting to explore the other side of the coin from Dread - fairness, and honor.

Even though this event pack is something we’ll work on later this year, it’s good to get your input now - this way we can start working on it without delay as soon as the next big expansion is out! As we have a lot of talented event-crafters on the design team, we feel quite confident that we can adapt to whatever theme you, as a community, choose.

If this turns out to be a popular activity, it is possible that we will do it again in the future! The themes that do not get chosen this time will likely make a comeback, alongside some new challengers.

The poll to vote is located in a separate forum thread here. Voting will begin today and you will have until January 27, 8am CET to discuss the different themes and cast your vote. We’re looking forward to seeing which theme you like the most!


EventPackThemeVote.png
 
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I'm not sure that "the community" and "people who leave reviews on Steam" are necessarily the same thing. I remember when the Witcher 3 game got a load of negative Steam reviews years after launch simply because people didn't like season 2 of the Netflix Witcher show.
Not even remotely the same thing. This is people expressing their dislike for the product they actually bought. Not to mention, the reception was highly negative here, on steam forums, and on Twitter.
 
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L&L sounds most interesting for me.

That said, if the event pack is the same quality as the last one, I'm not sure I'd buy it. There is a regular problem in the game's events where they don't properly check their targets or the basic circumstances (e.g. not checking if your current spouse was the spouse when you had an affair, if the target is a child), or even just outright bugs, e.g. with events describing supposed interaction between two people having same person in both "positions". If we are talking about the full game with many features, where events are only a small part of the whole, the issues in them is one thing. But when Paradox decides to take money for content that is 100% events, their usual level of quality is just not enough.
I can see that in many cases there is talented writing and good ideas behind it,but basically if you are not putting sufficient QA resources into checking these kind of things, it often doesn't matter how good the design was in theory - in the issues are common enough, they smear the whole impression. And this is even more important for DLCs where you take comparable money for a smaller amount of content, which should be easier to test.
I don't think there is talented writing there, personally. I think most of the time it's a very forced attempt at ridiculous humor that even reddit finds cringe-worthy most of the time, and when it's not, it's events that fall completely flat because they're overwritten walls of texts with cartoonish character animations to boot.
 
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I vote for Villains and Vagabonds. I do think that romantic relationships need to be better developed in this game (and the gameplay while a child too), but the dread/tyranny mechanics would be relevant for an ENTIRE playthrough, not just for a narrow part of it like the other two. And by god does this game need more peace-time gameplay and things to do/manage to make the world/characters feel more interactive and importantly reactive.

So yeah, I think Villains and Vagabonds is the only real choice here.
 
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My speculation about the DLC image shown (my ideas are pie-in-the-sky idealist, but let me have my hope hahah):

As other have mentioned, a revamp of how we use the map, turning it into a quasi-Mount and Blade situation where we can move ourselves for pilgrimages, hunts, feasts (and maybe in the future trade too, etc). Would be great for making this map we're always looking at feel more alive outside of warfare. Could also make for interesting mechanics about ambushes and kidnappings, etc.

Making the map more interactive with revamped buildings/holdings. For example, a bridge across a river which the owner of the county controls and can deny access for other rulers unless they pay a fee etc. Or a castle in a mountain pass which bars access for any army wanting to cross the pass unless they pay the owner/negotiate with them. This would go a long way to make the terrain in the game feel more interesting and alive, especially when this sort of thing happened all the time IRL: a water strait being controlled thus blocking sea trade through it, or a mountain pass being controlled thus forcing armies to march around whole mountain ranges, etc, etc.
 
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All these votes for Villains and Vagabonds are absurd.

Every character is a child at some point, and you usually are a guardian for your own children, so Wards and Wardens hits about 100% of characters

Almost every character dabbles in love or romance, or just being married, so Love and Lust hits about 95% of characters

A significantly smaller population of characters (let's be generous and say 50%) deal with dread and tyranny, so Villains and Vagabonds hits about 50% of characters


I can understand wanting to expand dread and tyranny out with events, but the amount of characters that will engage with them is far lower than those that will engage with W&W or L&L
 
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I'm not sure that "the community" and "people who leave reviews on Steam" are necessarily the same thing. I remember when the Witcher 3 game got a load of negative Steam reviews years after launch simply because people didn't like season 2 of the Netflix Witcher show.
And there can also be other confounding factors (like the price release thing).

Conclave is now one of the more beloved CK2 DLC, but it was released with an extremely controversial free patch (as in, the two main mechanics changes in the free patch, shattered retreat and coalitions, were so controversial that when they later eventually introduced game rules, those two were specifically ones that could be turned off by game rule) and the spillover left it with lousy reviews even though most of the content within the DLC itself was excellent (and a lot of it would form the basis of things in CK3, like favors/hooks or childhood education traits).
 
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All the jokes aside, I’m happy love and lust is currently in last place. Of the 3, it’s definitely the most meme-friendly of the options, and CK3 is already too meme-y.
 
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Sometime between now and the heat-death of the universe is all I've been permitted to say :confused:
Lol, reminds me of one of my favorite roguelikes tales of maj'eyal, where the lead dev has created a time unit: 1 dgtu(dark god time unit). There's always 1 til whatever content is asked for.

Also, villains and vagabonds. Romance is lovely for RP and immersion, but if it'S about nerfing dread...
 
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All the jokes aside, I’m happy love and lust is currently in last place. Of the 3, it’s definitely the most meme-friendly of the options, and CK3 is already too meme-y.
At the same time, a lot of criticism has been levelled at the current romance / seduction systems, so I would welcome a slight rework with more depth and nuance.

I'm worried about the other two options, because I'm unsure they'll be done well. Let's say I'm playing a strict and just leader, who punishes evil-doers mercilessly and is therefore feared. With the Villains pack, is the game going to pop events that assume he's a cartoon villain who enjoys playing soccer with the heads of his enemies, simply because his 'feared' score is high?

If anything, I fear the meme potential of something called a 'Villain' pack a lot more than a lovers one.
 
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About regencies, as far as I know they didn't really exist before at least 11th century. Before that succession would go in priority to a brother or an other male adult.
I always find it very weird to see children ruling during 9th or 10th century.
For @monkey1998 who "respecfully disagrees" with this (???), don't hesitate to check on WP : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regents
(I first checked french version : https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Régence )
And maybe clarifying what exactly you disagree about?:confused:
 
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In terms of a dread overhaul, maybe one addition could be a new set of laws governing who has the right to torture, execute, and imprison people.
In some places, like England, the right to administer "blood justice" was restricted to the king alone. Adding something to reflect this would make the game more realistic and also cut down on dread spam.
 
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Not even remotely the same thing. This is people expressing their dislike for the product they actually bought. Not to mention, the reception was highly negative here, on steam forums, and on Twitter.
This topic has come up before and I'll say here what I said there, we collect feedback from a variety of places. Steam reviews are part of that, but they're not the be-all-end-all. Threads here on the forums, the CK subreddit, the official Discord, and just general comments from people we personally know who play the game are all taken into account. CK is a big game with broad appeal and a lot of different types of players want different things, and we try to keep all of those perspectives in mind when collecting feedback ;)
 
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That teaser picture gives me crazy original CK nostalgia. :) The good old day..

Villians and Vagabonds would be great to give more depth to that side of things, plus I would LOVE some love givin to the honor side. Wards and wardens would be a very close second here!
 
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My vote goes for Wards & Wardens, but more specifically, for Regents & Minors. Just today, as my CK3 character died and left his lands to his two little daughters, I thought that situations like these could be made much more interesting.

Right now, there is little difference between grown-up and underage (or medically unfit) rulers. As a player, you just have a few special events and can't take some decisions, and that's it. There is no special mechanics for when your liege is a minor.

If regents are (re-)introduced, they will rule from behind your back, advancing your interests as well as theirs, accumulating power and wealth or even covertly sabotaging your domain. As the player character grows up, he/she would be able to increasingly wrestle authority back from the regent, or at least try to. There would be a world of intrigue and scheming among the wannabe-regents, and the player would be involved in these intrigues as an observer, object or a schemer. As a vassal (or maybe even an influential neighbouring ruler) you could take part in this struggle to appoint your regent or become one yourself. So, there are lots of interesting mechanics to create and test.
 
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If regents are (re-)introduced, they will rule from behind your back, advancing your interests as well as theirs, accumulating power and wealth or even covertly sabotaging your domain.
Regencies were the absolute worst part of CK2's gameplay experience.

(Remember, regencies aren't just for early childhood. They're for when your young, healthy ruler with congenital +Health traits gets his skull pushed into his brain and spends two decades as a drooling Incapable vegetable.)
 
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Love and Lust may include new events that generate lovers, it would depend on how common it would be for players to encounter this content.


The pitch for Love and Lust explicitly states it will focus on lovers and married life :)
I appreciate your response to some of the concerns that have been expressed; thanks!

I am now less likely to vote for L&L. I fear that lovers will still be the primary focus (that is the title, after all!), while married life will be much lower priority. It’d take a dev promise that married life would get at least equal attention to persuade me to vote for L&L.

It’s a similar issue with V&V. Will virtue get equal treatment, or will villainy be the primary focus, and virtue an afterthought? Without an explicit dev statement that they will receive equal attention....I’ll vote for W&W, even though I’d rank it #3 if we had those promises of equal treatment.

I understand y’all probably aren’t in a position to make such statements, or you’d already have made them. I’ll wait another day before I vote, in the hope that y’all can say a bit more.

Thanks again for giving us this opportunity to chime in!
 
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