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Dev Diary #132 – Eccentricity & Adoption

Eccentric​

Hello hello hello, welcome to another Wards and Wardens dev diary! Today I'm going to be talking you through two new features: adoption and the Eccentric trait! We'll start off with the simpler of the two features: Eccentricity.

Why add a new trait in Wards and Wardens?​

Friends and Foes added the Loyal and Disloyal traits, but unfortunately these came quite late in development and as a consequence they were quite under-utilized, so we decided to have the discussion around new traits quite early this time around and we went over a few different ideas including Superstitious, Silly vs Serious, but we kind of knew all along that what we really wanted was something analogous to the Wild Wasteland trait in Fallout or CK2 Lunatic.

For those unfamiliar, Lunacy in CK2 was usually where we made our more… out there content. There are still echoes of this here and there in CK3, but for the most part, Lunacy isn't really the same as it was.
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The decision was made quite early in CK3's development that the lunatic trait would be analogous to real-world mental illness so this kind of content was typically deemed inappropriate. As a result of that decision, we've not really had an easy way to gate the sillier side of things when it comes to the player character. This has been a bit of a divisive subject on the forums, so we felt we needed some way to gate the content without resorting to game rules.

What is Eccentric? Who is Eccentric?​

Eccentric is a personality trait meaning it is an essential part of a character's personality. Eccentrics are erratic and irrational, but there is a method to the madness so they may be able to see things that other characters don't.
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Numbers are subject to balancing

Wards and Wardens being all about children and childhood made it the perfect fit for a new Personality trait, and as with all other Personality traits in the game, Eccentric can be acquired during childhood.
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People have been known to lose their marbles later in life, so a particularly stressed character may have a mental break which causes them to start seeing things in a more Eccentric way.
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As you can see in the below screenshot, a non-Eccentric child would just guess at the options presented to them, but an eccentric may think of something a bit more creative.
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There has also been an audit of some existing content to add checks for the Eccentric trait where sensible. The now-infamous Cat-apult event, for example, has now been made into an Eccentric event.

Something I'd like to nip in the bud quite early is that the Eccentric trait is not intended to reflect any real-world disabilities, illnesses, or neurodivergence. I think it's wonderful if you are able to project some of your own experiences onto the trait, but making a direct and conscious effort to make the Lunatic trait analogous to real-world mental illnesses is the reason why we ended up making Eccentric to begin with and we'd rather not have to come up with another trait for our silly content.

Eccentric is a free feature and will be available to everyone, but some unique content related to the trait will be exclusive for DLC-owners.

Adoption​

Now onto the next feature of this diary and one that's quite exciting to me personally is the Adoption interaction! Now many many patches ago we introduced the Same-Sex marriage rule and ever since then it's just kind of been there and we've yet to introduce a way to actually make same-sex play… well, playable.

Who can adopt?​

Under the default game rules, Adoption is available to characters who are in a same-sex marriage, the childless and elderly/infertile, and Compassionate characters. Compassionate has long been a bit of a weak trait to have, so it's nice to give them a powerful way to secure succession and bring talented orphans into the family.
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Who can be adopted?​

Children can be adopted as long as: they're not a ruler, they're not in prison or otherwise unavailable, nobody in their family is a ruler, they're not already part of your house, and they're not in the realm of someone of their dynasty. This does mean you're technically allowed to adopt noble children, and children whose parents are still alive, but they are highly reluctant to accept adoption in those circumstances.

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Noble Adoption​

If you want to role-play a culture where adoption is commonplace (as it was in some off-map and out-of-period cultures), you can take up the Noble Adoption cultural tradition!

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Hold on a minute, isn't this anachronistic?​

Sort of! While adoption amongst nobility was exceptionally rare, it wasn't completely unheard of. As such, we've restricted access to adoption quite a lot as described and the AI is quite reluctant to do it.

Can the restrictions be loosened?​

Absolutely! Adoption comes with three new game rules that can forbid it or make it easier!
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Just like the Eccentric trait, Adoption is part of the free update releasing with Wards & Wardens on August 22nd. Next week we will talk about the new Court position and share more details on what to expect from this event pack. See you then!
 
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So you are saying as long as i a use the phrase "significant chunk" i can claim whatever i want because this doesnt need to be proven?
Given that we're talking about a strategy game on PC, I think the claim that a "significant chunk" of people who play CK3 (or EU4, Stellaris, or HOI4) are neurodivergent is... pretty plausible.

Certainly more plausible than the contrary claim (that the number of neurodivergent players is not significant).
 
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Given that we're talking about a strategy game on PC, I think the claim that a "significant chunk" of people who play CK3 (or EU4, Stellaris, or HOI4) are neurodivergent is... pretty plausible.

Certainly more plausible than the contrary claim (that the number of neurodivergent players is not significant).
That might be the case and i respect your opinion, still i think when you (FaustFelix) drop such a expressive statement like "A significant chunk of CK3 players are neurodivergent." you should at least give some background information/sources. In this wording he used its a statement and not an opinion anymore.

 
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You still need to fulfil the criteria necessary to adopt. It is quite possible to die before you become infertile, and it's quite possible to struggle to even find a child willing to be adopted by your shambling skeleton ruler. Plus as has already been mentioned, losing all your land is another possibility.
Can adoptees renounce their adoption?
 
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Normally this would be interesting but since it costs renown I don't see any reason to ever use this, if it instead costed alot of prestige then it would be a useful addition, i can only see this being useful if you create a custom character and somehow get unlucky and marry somebody with bad fertility, after a few decades your dynasty will greatly expand and there will always be somebody there to inherit.
 
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Realistically, adopting an heir in a culture that doesn't recognise adoption would give everyone and their dog claims on all of that heir's titles. Definitely anyone from the actual dynasty, but even a neighbouring duke from a different dynasty might be more closely related by blood than the adopted child. This won't be the case in the game, so the only somewhat historical option is to turn adoption game rule to 'Forbidden'.
However, the mechanic could be useful for places like ERE where you could sort of see this being possible. So I think there would be value in having another setting to adoption game rule, where it's only allowed for cultures that have the 'Noble adoption' tradition.
 
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Realistically, adopting an heir in a culture that doesn't recognise adoption would give everyone and their dog claims on all of that heir's titles. Definitely anyone from the actual dynasty, but even a neighbouring duke from a different dynasty might be more closely related by blood than the adopted child. This won't be the case in the game, so the only somewhat historical option is to turn adoption game rule to 'Forbidden'.
However, the mechanic could be useful for places like ERE where you could sort of see this being possible. So I think there would be value in having another setting to adoption game rule, where it's only allowed for cultures that have the 'Noble adoption' tradition.
True, though this could be the first step toward much more immersive gameplay... I.e. you strike such a deal, then there could be decisions to take to get your vassals to be supportive of your heir; as well as steps to groom the heir for rule.

As well as higher realm instability for the adopted heir on succession.
 
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Impossible. It’s PDX’s policy that one DLC cannot depend on the other.

It’s therefore impossible for a DLC to exist solely to add content to Royal Court.
A policy is not a law of Physics, they can decide to do something different. Also, I'm pretty sure some of the stuff in the Custodian Initiative in Stellaris has inter-DLC features.
 
A policy is not a law of Physics, they can decide to do something different.
They can change the policy, but they can't act against the directives given by higher-ups. This policy covers all current PDX GSGs, so it's not something that the director for a specific game can simply override.

Yes, it's not a natural law, but it is almost as coercive as those when it's your job on the line!

Also, I'm pretty sure some of the stuff in the Custodian Initiative in Stellaris has inter-DLC features.
Yeah, they can revisit DLC content, they can update them, even reprice them. And they can factor the costs of these reworks in the next DLC. But they can't make a DLC focused on expanding on a previous DLC's content. That's no longer their business model.
 
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I'm curious and I don't see the answer to this question anywhere.... Is there a game rule to disable the eccentric trait/remove silly events from the game?

I don't want this, and wouldn't use it.... I'm just curious if there's an option.
 
I'm curious and I don't see the answer to this question anywhere.... Is there a game rule to disable the eccentric trait/remove silly events from the game?

I don't want this, and wouldn't use it.... I'm just curious if there's an option.
There isn't. The devs have insisted there will be no gating of things like this behind game rules
 
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I really fail to see the logic in avoiding including "any real-world disabilities, illnesses, or neurodivergence".
Depression is in the game, so is paranoia, people can get maimed or incapable, but these are different somehow ?
I think would be great to add more realism to the characters, like addiction, compulsive behaviour, phobias, traumas, and whatnot, the easily offended be damned.
We have forms of addiction already though, with traits like Hashishiya, Drunkard, Comfort Eater, Profligate, and (arguably) Rakish or Lustful.
 
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Adoption can be nice but i am not fan of it if they appear like any other character on the dynasty tree or if they don't have a special trait to show who was adopted.

And that would be possible to marry them to our daughter , actually it will be an incestuous relation...
 
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Do you have a source for this please?
Sounds like a totally random allegation for me
As an unpaid, external fan, I don’t have access to empirical metadata. However, I’ve seen similar claims made by others on Reddit threads (which is what I’m now echoing, anecdotal observations of a neurodivergent community of players — like myself — that love this game for all of its depth, complexities, and systems).

FWIW, I’ve spent thousands of hours on CK3 and CK2, read every dev diary, buy every DLC, and this is by far the biggest ‘yuck’ I felt to a design/diction decision.
 
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Adoption can be nice but i am not fan of it if they appear like any other character on the dynasty tree or if they don't have a special trait to show who was adopted.

And that would be possible to marry them to our daughter , actually it will be an incestuous relation...
There was a cool idea posted here to make the line connecting the child with adopted parent in the family tree a bit different from the normal one. Might be a good thing to mod.
 
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We have the data on how often that event fires, it is extremely rare and really not worth the pages and pages of discussion it's triggered on the forums. Move on.

I... think I see what you're trying to say, but if an event is deeply upsetting or bothersome to many people, generating pages and pages of discussion & complaint, 'it's extremely rare, so move on' is rather bad & insulting response, personally. Particularity with depictions of a topic like animal cruelty.
 
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Question in regards to adoptions affect on succession: Do Biological heirs come first in regards to succession, or does the oldest become the Primary heir? Put another way: If my eldest biological male child is three, and I adopt a four year old boy, does the adoptee leapfrog in the succession, or would he be considered the second heir?
 
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I really liked what you guys did with tours and tournaments dlc. Moving mechanics, new buildings, reworks military, added harm events and more. This DLC is looking like a small step back. Not much substance to be honest. You guys should add more traits and make the congenital trait chances higher overall, out of 100 characters maybe 2 might have a congenital trait.. Way too rare.

I think the chances are like half of what CK2 was. CK2 had a good trait mechanic, you could gain more traits as you play. In CK3 your just really stuck with 3 traits the whole time which is pretty boring and makes everyone feel the same.

Hostages, in don't really see myself using really. Why didn't you guys just do regular non aggression pact? Add like 20 more harm events because the few we have are getting repetitive. Hopefully you guys just add a bit more and give us something to be hyped about.. so far this dlc is looking mediocre.
 
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