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Dev Diary #91: Starbases

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary marks the start of dev diaries about a major upcoming update that we have named the 'Cherryh' update after science fiction author C.J. Cherryh. This is a major update that will include some very significant reworks to core gameplay systems, reworks that we have been prototyping and testing for some time. Right now, we cannot say anything about the exact nature of the update or anything at all about when it will be released, other than that it's far away. Normally, we wouldn't be doing dev diaries on an update at this stage at all, but there's simply so much to talk about that we have to start early. Cherryh will be a massive update, the largest one we've done to date, and there are many new and changed things to talk about in the coming weeks and months.

Please bear in mind that screenshots are from an early internal build and will contain art and interfaces that are WIP, non-final numbers, hot code and all that business.

Border Rework
We've never been entirely happy with the border system in Stellaris. While it generally works fine from a gameplay perspective, it has some rather quirky elements, such as being able to claim ownership of systems that you have never visited and indeed have no ability to reach and making it hard to tell what the exact border adjustments will be when planets are ceded or outposts are built. For this reason, we have decided to fundamentally rework the Stellaris border system to be based on solar system ownership. Each system will have a single owner, with complete control of the system, and borders are now simply a reflection of system ownership rather than a cause for it to change. In the Cherryh update, who owns a system is almost always based on the owner of the Starbase in said system.
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Starbases
A Starbase is a space station orbiting the star of said system. Each system can only have a single Starbase, but this can be anything from a remote Outpost to a massive Citadel with its own 'fleet' of orbiting defense stations. Starbases can be upgraded and specialized in a variety of ways (more details on this below), and is the primary means of determining system ownership. This means that wars are no longer fought for colonies controlling a nebulous blob of border that may not actually include the systems you really want, but rather for the exact systems you are interested in, and their starbases. This change of course would not be possible if we kept the wargoal system that exists in the live version of the game (just imagine the size of that wargoal list...), but more on that in a couple weeks.
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As Starbases now determine system ownership, it will no longer be possible to colonize or invade primitives outside your borders in the Cherryh update, but if a system contains a colony and no starbase, it will still count as being inside the borders of the colony's owner. These restrictions are moddable. Since Starbases now cost influence to construct (see below), we have removed the influence cost for colonizing and attacking primitives.

Starbases entirely replace the old system of Frontier Outposts.

Starbase Construction
With borders from colonies gone, empires now start only owning their home system, with a Starbase already constructed around their home star. To expand outside their home system, empires will have to construct Outposts in surveyed systems. An Outpost is a level 'zero' Starbase that has only very basic defenses and cannot support any buildings or modules, but also does not count towards your maximum Starbase Capacity (more on that below). Building an Outpost in a system costs influence, with the cost dependent on how far away the system is and how contigous it is to your empire as a whole, so 'snaking' or building starbases to ring in a certain part of space will be more influence-costly than simply expanding in a natural way. Starbases do not cost any influence upkeep, just an up-front cost when first building one in a system. As this change makes influence far more important in the early game, there will also be significant balance changes to empire influence generation in the Cherryh update.
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As an aside note, because we felt it made very little sense to have a home system with a fully built Starbase but no surveyed planet, empire home systems will now start surveyed, with a only slightly randomized amount of resources, and mining/research stations for some of those resources already in place. This should also help make player starts a little less random, ensuring that you are never *completely* without resources in your home system.
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Another thing we have been wary about when working on this is making sure that building the Outposts for each system does not simply feel like adding tedium. Right now, between the fact that which systems you choose to spend your limited influence on is an extremely important choice, and various tweaks and interface improvements we are making to ease up the process of developing your systems, we are confident that this will not be the case. We've also made it so that there are no entirely 'empty' systems (systems with no resources at all), as we discovered during playtesting that spending influence to claim such a system felt extremely unrewarding.

Upgrades and Capacity
Each empire will have a Starbase Capacity that represents the number of upgraded Starbases they can support. There are five levels of Starbases:
Outpost: A basic Outpost that exists only to claim a system. Costs no energy maintenance and does not count towards the Starbase Capacity, and cannot support buildings or modules. Outposts will also not show up in the outliner or galaxy map, as they are not meant to be interacted with at all unless it is to upgrade the Outpost to a Starport.
Starport: The first level of upgraded Starbase, available at the start of the game. Supports 2 modules and 1 building.
Starhold: The second level of upgraded Starbase, unlocked through tech. Supports 4 modules and 2 buildings.
Star Fortress: The third level of upgraded Starbase, unlocked through tech. Supports 6 modules and 3 buildings.
Citadel: The final level of upgraded Starbase, unlocked through tech. Supports 6 modules and 4 buildings.
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Regardless of the level of the Starbase, so long as it is not an Outpost, it will use 1 Starbase Capacity and will show up on the map and in the outliner. Overall, the design goal is for the vast majority of Starbases to be Outposts that you never have to manage, with a handful of upgraded Starbases that are powerful and critical assets for your empire. Going over your Starbase Capacity will result in sharply increased Starbase energy maintenance costs. Starbase Capacity can be increased through techs, traditions and other such means. You also gain a small amount of Starbase Capacity from the number of Pops in your empire. If you end up over Starbase Capacity for whatever reason, it is possible to downgrade upgraded Starbases back into Outposts. It is also possible to dismantle Starbases entirely and give up control of those systems, so long as they are not in a system with a colonized planet.
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Spaceports and Ship Construction
Starbases fully replace Spaceports in the role of system/planet defense and military ship construction. Spaceports still exist, but are no longer separate stations but rather an integrated part of the planet, and can only build civilian ships (Science Ships, Construction Ships and Colony Ships). To build military ships you will need a Starbase with at least one Shipyard module (more on that below). Starbases also replace Spaceports/Planets in that they are now the primary place to repair, upgrade, dock and rally ships, though civilian ships are also able to repair at planets.
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Modules and Buildings
All non-Outpost Starbases can support Modules and Buildings. Some of these are available from the start of the game, while others are unlocked by tech. Some modules and buildings are only available in certain systems, for example Trading Hubs can only be constructed in colonized systems.

Modules are the fundamental, external components of the Starbase, and determine its actual role. Module choices include Trading Hubs (for improving the economy of colonized systems), Anchorages (for Naval Capacity), Shipyards (for building ships, duh), and different kinds of defensive modules such as gun turrets and strike craft hangar bays that improve the Starbase's combat ability. There is no restrictions on the number of modules you can have of a certain type, besides the actual restriction on module slots itself. This means, for example, that you can have a Starbase entirely dedicated to Shipyards, capable of building up to 6 ships in parallell. Modules will also change the graphical appearance of the Starbase, so a dedicated Shipyard will look different from a massive defensive-oriented fortress brimming with dozens of gun turrets.
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Buildings represent internal structures inside the Starbase proper, and typically work to enhance modules or provide a global buff to the Starbase or system as a whole. Building choices include the Offworld Trading Company that increases the effectiveness of all Trading Hub modules, and the Listening Post that massively improves the Starbase's sensor range. You cannot have multiples of the same building on the same Starbase.
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Defenses
One of the fundamental problems with the military stations in the live version of the game is that they simply do not have enough firepower. Even with impressive hit points and shields, a station with at most a dozen or so guns simply cannot match the firepower of a whole fleet. An another issue is the ability to build multiple defense stations in the same system, meaning that no single station can be strong enough to match a fleet, as otherwise a system with several such stations will be effectively invulnerable. For this reason we decided to consolidate all system defenses into the Starbase mechanics, but not into a single station. Starbases come with a basic array of armaments and utilities (gun and missile turrets, shields and armor, etc), with the exact number of weapons based on the level of the Starbase. These are automatically kept up to date with technological advances, so your Starbases won't be fielding red lasers and basic deflectors when facing fleets armed with tachyon lances.
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Additionally, Starbases (with the exception of Outposts) have the ability to construct defense platforms to protect them. Constructed defense platforms will form a 'fleet' around the Starbase, supporting it with their own weapons and giving Starbases the firepower needed to engage entire fleets. The amount of defense platforms a Starbase can support may depend on factors such as starbase size and modules/buildings, technology, policies, and so on. The exact details here are still being worked on, but the design intent is that if you invest into them, Starbase defenses will scale against fleets across the whole game rather just being completely outpaced in the late game as military stations and spaceports currently are in the live version.
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One last note on Starbases: For a variety of reasons (among them to avoid something like the tedious rebuilding of Spaceports that happens at the end of wars) Starbases cannot be destroyed through conventional means. They can, however be disabled and even captured by enemies. More on this in a couple weeks.

... whew, this was a long one but that's all for today! Next week we'll continue talking about the Cherryh update, with the topic being Faster than Light travel...
 
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I'd actually be comfortable with that. I like the idea of areas of "wilderness space".

In Distant Worlds there is often vast emptiness of space that will never be in your borders (But in that game you can build mining stations outside your borders too). But its scary and full of pirates who suddenly and without warning raid your mining stations and planets for resources to become stronger and stronger (in rare cases as strong as empires). If something like that was also in Stellaris I wouldnt mind.
 
I don't quite get this bit... Wouldn't the fact that a system is empty, become clear when you're surveying it? You seem to ba talking about a situation where someone claims a system and then finds out it's worthless, but I don't understand how you would ever get to that point?

to fill out borders i'm guessing, or to expand toward actually good systems.
 
@Wiz in addition to building buildings/modules on starbases can we also build them on ringworlds to specialize them or enhance them? It seems like ringworlds need a gaia world equivalent buff too.
 
Question more related to modding with regards to starbases. I.e. engine restrictions rather than what will come out in terms of vanilla content:
  1. Will buildings on starforts have some of the features that planetary buildings currently have? (Specifically can be upgraded, can have prerequisites checks like pop count in system > X, etc.)
  2. Same question but for modules? (Upgrades, prerequisites checks, etc.)
  3. Will it be possible to let starforts build defensive structures other than defensive platform. I.e. Could I add fortresses in, and have a starfort with 20 fortresses instead of 20 defense platforms?
  4. Can starforts rotate, as in if I stick a weapon (XL) with a limited firing arc, can it turn to face and fire? (Currently works if you give stations a rotation speed.)
  5. Will the number of starfort levels (and their cost and whatnot) be moddable?
  6. Will the number of module and building slots (and upkeep) per starfort level be moddable? (I am assuming "Yes" for being able to mod the UI to accommodate if so.)

Also, really looking forward to the update. It seems like some really good work is being covered in this overhaul.
 
Why should outposts be built in the orbit of stars? Why not planets?

i'm still like 90 % sure this is so it's evenly distanced from warp in locations. this way you can no longer jump in and land on a defense station and get tangled up in combat. FTL inhib even no longer pull ships to the station, they prevent leaving the system now.
 
Happy to see Stellaris being worked on but i have skepsis about outposts:
- Building outpost in every system is annoying.
- Being not able to colonize some planets far away is also boring.
- Concept of megastations in system without colonized planet or very high resources at least very strange. Where should all the stuff, materials, sections come from? Either from nothing or from homeworld far, far away. Its a mess.
 
According to the dev diary, the system owner is the one who controls the starbase.

You can't invade a planet until you've taken control of the Starbase. More on that later though.

Since you can't invade a planet until you've taken control of a starbase, and planetary invasions are still a thing, taking a starbase doesn't immediately give you control of the planet. Whether the planet owner still has full use of a planet once the local starbase is occupied is another question.
 
Why exactly do some people think they're going to have to "build hundreds of outposts".

Because Stellaris maps have hundreds of stars on them.

You do realise the peaceful expansion phase only last until mid game right? You might have to build 30-40 outposts at most before there isn't much systems left to claim and you have to take other empires outposts to keep expanding.

Depending on your definition of midgame, I don't think that's true - you can expand peacefully until right into the end game on some maps. Not everyone plays with the number of AI empires cranked up to maximum.

Pirates and space monsters, perhaps? Make them an exception to the rule that you cannot destroy outposts, have some way to spawn new monsters/pirates you have to patrol your borders, and let (the pirates) specifically take over outposts if you don't defend them properly, so you're punished if you overreach carelessly.

They get killed off pretty fast, they're not going to keep space uncolonized forever.
 
I'm still not entirely sold on centralizing everything (economy, navy and defense) into a single structure, but this mostly sounds really good.

Just one thing: Please, please, please let us design the defensive sections and defense platforms like we do ships! I really don't want to be stuck with choosing among three pre-set gun sections.
 
and 10s of AIs making outposts... which never get destroyed.

There aren't 10s of empires unless you set the game up that way. The default setting for the very largest map is 15 non-fallen empires. You can if you wish play with far fewer. If you use clustered starts, those are going to be bunched together leaving vast areas empty and making it more likely that many of those starting empires get eliminated.

If you're telling me that this new system is going to work well if you play with certain settings at game start, then I'm going to go ahead and say it's not a very good system.

Plus they should do what I said with the UI anyway, because it's just good practice.
 
No, you need a separate mining/research station at the star to get its resources. There may be special Starbase modules/buildings to interact with certain types of stars though.
This is the only disappointment I've got with this change.

I'd kind of hoped when I saw the defences tab that there'd be something similar in the future for resources, where you build the mining stations at the central starport.
 
I have absolutely no words for how amazed and thrilled I am to play this update.
Holy moly this will change Stellaris big time.

Yeah, no the starbase stuff is great. Really looking forward to it. It's just the border stuff I'm giving some sideeye.
 
All this complaining about micro and # clicks is hilarious. It's clear none of those complaining play CK2.

The current border system is not particularly nice to use. Any game system with ambiguity in it's effects isn't very good and having to play "will my borders reach all these starts or not if I drop an outpost here rather than there" isn't a thrilling experience. Nor is this system "unique". It's a scaled down version of culture spread in CIV4, which worked there but not here where you can only expand the border to so many places (habitable planets/frontier outposts) in a given timeframe.

Another posted put up a screenie showing a vast unclaimed bit of space that would involve a lot of "micro" as it's being called to take over. That player stares in horror, whereas I am squirming with glee. My inner builder would love to go system by system, thoroughly pulling in star systems based on value per influence cost. I'd know exactly what I'd be getting with each bit of space claimed. I would know exactly where to start with construction. In essence, I'd be "taming" wild unclaimed space in a methodological fashion with these star bases. To top it off, the only limit to my expansion would be influence.

NOT the arbitrary amount of frontier outposts possible before delving into influence deficit.
NOT the presence or lack of presence of colonizable worlds which may or may not suck all your unfluence.

What seems to be ignored in all this furor over clicking is the side benefit of the starbase system. A better war demands system. Which this game has needed since release. No longer will the AI beat you in a force and basically force a game over because the only demands they can make are for extremely valuable planets (or dismantling frontier outposts), sending the player into a power death spiral.

1.8 literally unplayable now. :D
 
I think there's an actual argument to be made that building mining/research stations is excessively micro-intensive beyond the very early game, and that's an area we could target for 'less clicking' much moreso than outpost building.

Please. I've been wishing for an "automatic stations" option for a while.
 
All this complaining about micro and # clicks is hilarious. It's clear none of those complaining play CK2.

"poor UX in this one game is acceptable because this other game has even worst UX"