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EU4 - Development Diary - 16th of February 2021

Hello everybody and welcome back to another EUIV dev diary and it has been a while for me!

Shortly before EUIV moved over to sunny Barcelona, I devoted some of my time to reworking Australia as I felt the current map of the continent was a bit lacking and very annoying to own what with all these little unconnected islands amidst the wasteland. On top of that, the continent being an entirely uncolonized block of nothing before colonialism seems a little inaccurate, given how lively the continent actually was before the Europeans arrived.

So, first thing to note is that Australia is now entirely connected through colonisable provinces, with the great Pilbara now connecting the north and west of Australia.
20210215172646_1.jpg

Another important rework comes in the form of the new states Australia now enjoys. What I wanted out of this is I wanted Australia to be on par with the other colonial regions in the game in terms of province count and strategic importance.
20210215170805_1.jpg

When shaping the states and provinces, I wanted to hit a nice balance between pre and post colonial Australian borders, so state borders are largely determined by colonial Australian state boundaries, while provinces are more determined by the distribution of Aboriginal peoples. All provinces also have both their Aboriginal and colonial names depending on who owns the province.
1613408346626.png

The Australian Gold Rush can now be yours, with Australian provinces enjoying a high chance of gold and some provinces in the south having a chance for gems, and a few key provinces able to produce coal.
20210215172855_1.jpg

Next, I’ll highlight some of the playable nations down under. Up north we have the Larrakia Federation composed of all of the top-end nations you see here, with Larrakia and Tiwi enjoying a unique set of national ideas. The Larrakia federation was responsible for much of pre-colonial Australia’s wealth through trade with the Makassarians. This trade also brought with it some Islamic influences, though the Aboriginal people of Australia never fully converted.
20210215170717_1.jpg

LAR_ideas = {
start = {
global_trade_power = 0.1
trade_efficiency = 0.1
}

bonus = {
global_ship_trade_power = 0.2
}

trigger = {
tag = LAR
}
free = yes #will be added at load.

LAR_makassar_trade = {
merchants = 1
global_foreign_trade_power = 0.1
}
LAR_federation = {
diplomatic_upkeep = 2
}
LAR_dreaming = {
global_autonomy = -0.05
}
LAR_dowed = {
legitimacy = 1
republican_tradition = 0.2
global_unrest = -1
}
LAR_ceremonial_scarring = {
shock_damage = 0.1
}
LAR_hospitality = {
diplomatic_reputation = 2
}
LAR_kenbi_land_claim = {
core_creation = -0.15
}
}

TIW_ideas = {
start = {
female_advisor_chance = 0.75
shock_damage_received = -0.2
}

bonus = {
leader_land_shock = 1
}

trigger = {
tag = TIW
}
free = yes

TIW_yiminga = {
may_recruit_female_generals = yes
global_manpower_modifier = 0.2
}
TIW_dreaming_totem = {
tolerance_own = 2
}
TIW_kulama = {
production_efficiency = 0.1
}
TIW_purrukapali = {
naval_tradition_from_battle = 0.5
}
TIW_marriage = {
heir_chance = 0.5
global_unrest = -1
}
TIW_isolationism = {
land_morale = 0.1
}
TIW_one_people = {
culture_conversion_cost = -0.25
}
}

Moving along down south we have the Eora people, the original inhabitants of the Sydney area.
EOR_ideas = {
start = {
diplomatic_reputation = 1
light_ship_power = 0.15
}

bonus = {
num_accepted_cultures = 2
}

trigger = {
tag = EOR
}
free = yes

EOR_lifestyle = {
naval_morale = 0.15
}
EOR_bands = {
state_maintenance_modifier = -0.25
}
EOR_enduring = {
religious_unity = 0.25
tolerance_heathen = 1
}
EOR_protect = {
manpower_recovery_speed = 0.1
global_sailors_modifier = 0.1
}
EOR_sacred = {
own_coast_naval_combat_bonus = 1
}
EOR_pemulwuy = {
land_morale = 0.15
}
EOR_berewaldal = {
merchants = 1
global_foreign_trade_power = 0.1
}
}

The Kaurna people, first inhabitants of Adelaide.
KAU_ideas = {
start = {
female_advisor_chance = 0.75
global_tax_modifier = 0.3
}

bonus = {
development_cost = -0.1
}

trigger = {
tag = KAU
}
free = yes

KAU_totemic_matriarchy = {
may_recruit_female_generals = yes
tolerance_own = 2
}
KAU_pangkarra = {
governing_capacity_modifier = 0.1
}
KAU_coastal_pangkarra = {
global_ship_trade_power = 0.2
}
KAU_redgum_shelters = {
build_cost = -0.15
}
KAU_communal_ownership = {
global_unrest = -2
}
KAU_old_tjilbruke = {
stability_cost_modifier = -0.1
reform_progress_growth = 0.15
}
KAU_south_australia_act = {
core_creation = -0.2
}
}

Palawa, first people of Tasmania.
PLW_ideas = {
start = {
stability_cost_modifier = -0.1
land_morale = 0.1
}

bonus = {
monarch_military_power = 1
}

trigger = {
tag = PLW
}
free = yes #will be added at load.

PLW_oyster = {
production_efficiency = 0.1
}
PLW_dual_identity = {
legitimacy = 1
num_accepted_cultures = 1
}
PLW_darwin = {
shock_damage = 0.2
}
PLW_parlevar = {
ae_impact = -0.15
}
PLW_writers = {
technology_cost = -0.1
}
PLW_survivors = {
fire_damage = 0.1
}
PLW_enduring = {
manpower_recovery_speed = 0.25
}
}

Kamilaroi, one of the most populated collective of Australian nations.
GMI_ideas = {
start = {
land_morale = 0.1
shock_damage = 0.1
}

bonus = {
land_forcelimit_modifier = 0.33
}

trigger = {
tag = GMI
}
free = yes #will be added at load.

GMI_sacred_caves = {
core_creation = -0.15
}
GMI_land_of_languages = {
num_accepted_cultures = 2
}
GMI_fertile_soils = {
development_cost = -0.1
}
GMI_dhulu = {
diplomats = 1
envoy_travel_time = -0.25
}
GMI_matrilineal_lineage = {
legitimacy = 1
republican_tradition = 0.2
female_advisor_chance = 0.5
}
GMI_familial_law = {
global_autonomy = -0.05
}
GMI_red_kangaroo = {
global_unrest = -2
}
}

I would have loved to have made ideas for all nations in Australia, but alas time was not on my side there so if you do not have unique ideas, you will get the shared Aboriginal Ideas.
generic_aboriginal_ideas = {
start = {
tolerance_own = 1
stability_cost_modifier = -0.1
}

bonus = {
shock_damage = 0.1
}

trigger = {
culture_group = aboriginal_australian
}
free = yes

aborig_art = {
prestige = 1
}
aborig_fire_stick_farming = {
development_cost = -0.1
}
aborig_walkabout = {
movement_speed = 0.1
}
aborig_outback = {
land_attrition = -0.1
}
aborig_sacred = {
global_tax_modifier = 0.1
}
aborig_dreamtime = {
religious_unity = 0.2
}
aborig_music = {
improve_relation_modifier = 0.2
}
}

But Aboriginal culture is not a single monolithic entity, so it has been divided into its own group. If we were being entirely accurate about this, almost all provinces in Australia would be their own culture, so some generalization has been done for gameplay purposes.
20210215173636_1.jpg

On top of all these new nations, the Aboriginal Australians also have access to the new Alcheringa religion! Most commonly known to colonizers as “Dreamtime”, Alcheringa refers to the vast distinct religions found among the Australian population. Though each people usually have their own distinct faith, most Australian faiths have a concept of “Dreamtime” or “The Dreaming”, a time of myth and legend that simultaneously occurred in the distant past and continues to occur around us every day.
20210215173412_1.jpg

Every Aboriginal people has their own pantheon of gods and “Dreaming Stories”. Alcheringa uses a system similar to the Fetishist cult system, with new stories becoming unlocked via missions.

These missions vary in what you must do, from defeating enemies in battle, to building an oceangoing vessel for the first time, to turning the Makassar trade on its head and dominating trade in the Moluccas.

The Aboriginals also enjoy all new unit models.
image (21).png


That’s all for this week, hope you all enjoy my last hurrah of EUIV content.
 
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"North America got reworked" is a pretty weak claim - there's technically some partial truth to it, but it misrepresents the reality.

As the dev diaries at the time made clear, the Golden Century update was for the Carribeans, Central America and Mexico region. A few areas in the United States that were historically associated with Mexico or Cuba more than the North American colonies got added, but "North America" as a whole was not reworked. In effect, Golden Century was the Central America rework, although with a somewhat different definition of Central America than the normal one.

This new map update, on the other hand, deal with Eastern North America, namely, Canada and the United States east of the Rockies. That region was essentialy untouched in Golden Century.

Claiming the same region is getting multiple updates before South America is pretty much bad faith at this point.
The post I made just before this may lend some clarity to the situation, with respect to the sensitivity with which issues of early modern colonization and representation of pre-contact societies in all parts of the world must be approached. The problem lies in the eurocentricity of the game, and how much Paradox doesn't want to tackle those issues (and in fact, probably shouldn't). There is literally a sticky post about not using a certain anti-Turkish slur that I see every time I open the forums and that leads me to believe there is a certain amount of toxicity in the loyal fanbase that cannot be avoided. I don't know what else I would expect to see from a game of moving soldiers around a board, but maybe just like a tiny bit of understanding with respect to the field of colonial studies? Normally I would say "IDK I'm not an expert" but I 'm actually kind of an expert. I do medieval studies in association with the Pontifical Institute.

Edit: Evie, I hope I'm responding to you correctly! I don't know the right etiquette for this forum but I assume that multiple posts aren't a good idea, is the idea?
In any event, it would be very difficult to do what this game purports to do, which to my knowledge is to reconstruct a playable game out of the historical environment, peoples, and events of the early modern age (a very European concept, to be fair!) without a lot of back and forth between people who read a lot of books and don't play a lot of video games or post a lot on online discussion boards (mostly because they don't know how. also, I could be mistaken in my assumptions with respect to the scope of the game, but that was how it was 'sold' to me).

Edit 2: @Kapitalisti I hope I did this correctly as well (and that I'm not being noisome), but I definitely think the sum of the whole matters here. Video games are works of art, as much as the Sistine Chapel or next week's episode of Wandavision or Duchamp's *In Advance of a Broken Arm*. They require capital investment and human labor and are enduring testimony to their creators. I would suggest that the addition of *monuments* to the game, a VERY important word which has a history all of its own, is a political statement.
 
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I sure as sure wasn't expecting a map update for Australia. And I was expecting Aboriginal tags even less. And multiple cultures AND a unique religion even less. So damn, I'm impressed. I have put off playing in Asia in anticipation of all the changes coming its way and then the Polynesians made me itch to set up a maritime empire with them and now you just had to add Australia to that list. Awesome work.


And of course the comments are full of "well if X gets this much stuff, why doesn't <insert personal favorite thing>?!" replies. And most of them don't even notice the whole "did it in my own time" disclaimers before ranting about supposedly wasted dev time better spent in that mentioned favorite thing. Personally I don't look at games as a zero sum, well, game.
 
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I was looking over the oceania expanded mod (couldn't actually play it, so wondering why manaism from it wasn't transfered to the polynesian tribes, I really hate the idea of having animism for them
Mainly because Manaism was completely hacked together using events and variables which meant that performance would drop the more Manaist nations there were in the game. Like, for something in a mod it's fine, but for the base game we prefer to avoid hacking stuff together with content.
@Meka66 Fantastic! Spectacular! The is one of the best dev diaries I can remember seeing. Thank you so much for your dedication to this project and for finally creating gameplay in such an underrepresented region.

One question (not meant as criticism): out of curiosity, why did you decide not to have more provinces in Australia’s interior— even just a few provinces linking the east and west through the wasteland, like the passages from the Maghreb through the Sahara to the Sahel? I am a little sad that the updated map doesn’t contain a new province with Uluru in it, which would have made a great province modifier (maybe triggered by the owner being of Aboriginal culture of having the Dreamtime religion).
Thanks, hope you'll enjoy it when it releases!

Yep, as mentioned before filling out the interior would be nice from an Aboriginal perspective, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for colonizers to start filling the Outback with settlements this early on in history. Coastal Australia was relevant to both colonizer and colonized so it felt like the right choice.
Australia colonization began in 1788, nearly the end of EU4's game timeframe. Australia's gold rush started in 1851. Why is Australia getting all these buffs? Why does Australia need to "be on part with other colonial regions" when those colonial regions were vastly larger, richer, more populated, more important to history, earlier colonized, and stronger? Is the game not supposed to be based in history? Couldn't this exact same rational be used for buffing, say, North Africa to the same level as China?
Well, not really. The point of reference I used when making it on par with other colonial regions was colonial Alaska.

Before this rework, Australia had barely been touched since release and because of the way EU4 mechanics work, both AI and players will end up filling out the entirety of Australia pretty much immediately after discovering it. Australia isn't going to give you as much strategic value as say the West Indies or Brazil, but it'll be more than just an afterthought for your colonial adventures from now on. Rather, like other regions, it's going to be a proper colonial venture as it should be.

Anyway, you're not supposed to know about the North Africa rework with 2000 new provinces, who told you??
 
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Colonization is indeed a very difficult topic to tackle properly - and my expertise (Law with specific training in indigenous rights nationally and internationally, lack of thereof, and the evolution of Indigenous law in Canada from colonial time to today, as well as articling in refugee law helping Latin American refugee applicants) is probably not far less relevant than yours, though from a very different angle.

The fact is that leaving those regions blank of any representation, as empty province to be claimed by Europeans, with the only presence of the native being as hostile barbarians incapable of diplomacy, only capable of attacking your colony at random, which is what we had until recently is disgustingly unacceptable. It's the Colonial version of Australian Terra Nulius, where the local population are reduced to unpeople because they are too "primitive" to be afforded any legal existence, applied everywhere in the world. An article not long after the game came out labeled it a Genocide Simulator, and while one may quibble the point, the treatment of indigenous or aboriginal people as hostile barbarians only fit to be attacked or assimilated certainly wasn't a point in Europa Universalis' favor. From Conquest of Paradise onward, a lot of effort has been made to slowly chip away at that conception of the world, and progress has been made. This expansion is adding a system to represent the tension between what the Indigenous people considered their own territory versus what the European saw as empty lands ready for colonization, due to different relation to the land. It's still not perfect, but it is improvement.

But those progresses are slow, and imperfect. There are limitations in terms of game engine - there's not much mechanism for different form of social organization (even with the above addition). There are limitations of resources: the research and development time needed to present completely distinct cultural representation of every group that might go into the game is far in excess of what's actually available. If new mechanics are needed, there is limited development time to implement them. The same goes for the time needed to create multiple distinct graphics. All of those updates to the map are done on limited resources (as is necessary with game design), and many of them are done outright as unpaid passion projects by various members of the team. There is only so much that can be done at any one time with these limitations - and waiting to dump everything at once will still result in an imperfect product...and probably one that never quite gets finished.

Ultimately, I know that I'm aware that a lot remain to be done in the regions I've worked on (as an unpaid beta tester volunteer). I'm sure other people understand the imperfections and the compromise that had to be made to get some improvement to their region. Other regions, right now, need even more work.
 
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Colonization is indeed a very difficult topic to tackle properly - and my expertise (Law with specific training in indigenous rights nationally and internationally, lack of thereof, and the evolution of Indigenous law in Canada from colonial time to today, as well as articling in refugee law helping Latin American refugee applicants) is probably not far less relevant than yours, though from a very different angle.

The fact is that leaving those regions blank of any representation, as empty province to be claimed by Europeans, with the only presence of the native being as hostile barbarians incapable of diplomacy, only capable of attacking your colony at random, which is what we had until recently is disgustingly unacceptable. It's the Colonial version of Australian Terra Nulius, where the local population are reduced to unpeople because they are too "primitive" to be afforded any legal existence, applied everywhere in the world. An article not long after the game came out labeled it a Genocide Simulator, and while one may quibble the point, the treatment of indigenous or aboriginal people as hostile barbarians only fit to be attacked or assimilated certainly wasn't a point in Europa Universalis' favor. From Conquest of Paradise onward, a lot of effort has been made to slowly chip away at that conception of the world, and progress has been made. This expansion is adding a system to represent the tension between what the Indigenous people considered their own territory versus what the European saw as empty lands ready for colonization, due to different relation to the land. It's still not perfect, but it is improvement.

But those progresses are slow, and imperfect. There are limitations in terms of game engine - there's not much mechanism for different form of social organization (even with the above addition). There are limitations of resources: the research and development time needed to present completely distinct cultural representation of every group that might go into the game is far in excess of what's actually available. If new mechanics are needed, there is limited development time to implement them. The same goes for the time needed to create multiple distinct graphics. All of those updates to the map are done on limited resources (as is necessary with game design), and many of them are done outright as unpaid passion projects by various members of the team. There is only so much that can be done at any one time with these limitations - and waiting to dump everything at once will still result in an imperfect product...and probably one that never quite gets finished.

Ultimately, I know that I'm aware that a lot remain to be done in the regions I've worked on (as an unpaid beta tester volunteer). I'm sure other people understand the imperfections and the compromise that had to be made to get some improvement to their region. Other regions, right now, need even more work.
Oh that's actually one of the coolest but also probably most depressing law specializations I've ever heard of. Your point about progress is very well taken. Brings to mind the last time I got motivated to call PDX out for something (it was the malus for homosexuality in CK2) and how much growth there has been since that complaint and little did I know, prior to it.


Yep, as mentioned before filling out the interior would be nice from an Aboriginal perspective, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for colonizers to start filling the Outback with settlements this early on in history. Coastal Australia was relevant to both colonizer and colonized so it felt like the right choice.
Could the interior be locked out for western powers until a certain tech level in late game? I don't know how anything I might suggest would affect your workload so I won't suggest anything lol.

Anyway, you're not supposed to know about the North Africa rework with 2000 new provinces, who told you??
This, but unironically. Also, as a quite serious scholar of medieval German monasteries, what is going on with Timbuktu.
 
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Two questions about Oceania content.
Will aboriginals have advisors portraits?
Will polynesians have advisors portraits and new unit models or will reuse some of the already existent unit models?
Sadly there's not going to be any new advisor portraits for Oceania, but I like your idea of a Polynesian unit model...
 
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Mainly because Manaism was completely hacked together using events and variables which meant that performance would drop the more Manaist nations there were in the game. Like, for something in a mod it's fine, but for the base game we prefer to avoid hacking stuff together with content.
I feel like even a religion without unique mechanics but maybe one or two decisions (and a possibility of mechanics in future DLC) would be way better than the generic Animism shared with South East Asia and South America.
 
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For each new comment about national ideas, I will replace a Prussian military bonus with +10% Transport Combat Ability. I may lack the authority to do it, but by golly I'll try. I got very twitchy fingers.
As a certified Prussia-hater, I really think your national ideas need a complete rework from the ground up...
;)
 
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. Also Jewish mechanics, as they have twice the provinces of Zoroastrian at game start.
Not anymore.

In 1.30 Judaism is followed by Semien and Dembiya in Ethiopia, and Zoroastrianism only in Yazd, but in 1.31 a second Zoroastrian Province is being added in Gujarat. And given that Indian Sultanates have big tolerance buffs, it is a lot more likely for that province to stick around into the mid and late game, while Yazd and the Jewish provinces are probably going to get converted pretty quickly.

You also have to take into account that the dev actually really liked Zoroastrianism because of Hedgehogs. Hedgehogs are cool.
 
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One of the classes I took (the main one on Canadian Indigenous Law) was the only class to ever make me cry.

If you mean the Timbuktu tag, I *think* (it's been it's been a long time since I revamped that map for Art of War) that it represents various smaller groups that had control (or at least primacy) in Timbuktu at various times. In 1444, that would be the Magsharen Tuareg, though I don't recall every single group they may represent.

(This was fairly common back in that time, having the same tag represent different group and entities at different point in time).
 
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...
Yes, the strait was added after my time on the project was passed so I'll have to refer the Tinto team as to what the motivation for its existence is but I suspect it's just so both colonizers and Australians can easily access any rebels or wars that show up on the island.
...
Speaking of which, I hope the Torres Strait is recognized as an EU4 strait, even if the Torres island chain itself isn't represented. For canoes it was (and is) far easier to cross than Bass Strait!
 
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Thats a silly answer.

Its about two things.

1. In game balance, specifically the balance between ideas. The more native tags there are the weaker exploration and especially expansion ideas become as there is less need to even colonize countries when you can simply conquer it from natives. At least colonizers pose some form of challenge when you try to take their colony, but conquering natives is mostly just busywork.
It also devalues a entire game system and makes the game less diverse when conquest becomes the solution to everything and you do not need colonization much anymore.
And it makes "colonizing" much faster which is already ahistorically fast in EU4 which makes later settler techs useless.

2. Historical accuracy. That natives were conquered and incorporated into colonies happened a few times, mainly in central and south america by the Spanish, more often than not the natives were displaced entirely and did not become part of colonies (Australia, North America). So that you can simply conquer natives in those regions instead of having to colonize does not reflect how expansion in those regions worked.

Edit: That could be solved if, apart from the central and south american high cultures, you could not annex natives directly, but the conquered territory would turn into a colony with some initial population. Conquering would still provide a boost but dedicated colonizers would still have an advantage because of colony growth and you can't just simply conquer natives until a colonial nation forms without actually colonizing something.
Those are valid concerns, but it seems to me that a better solution than just making much of the (inhabited) world colony-fodder would be to give some other role to colonists. Imagine, perhaps, some other form of diplomatic deal - similar in concept to transferring trade power or military access - that allows colonists to be assigned to culture-convert provinces in exchange for technological help and/or protective alliance. Maybe call it "protectorate"...
 
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Those are valid concerns, but it seems to me that a better solution than just making much of the (inhabited) world colony-fodder would be to give some other role to colonists. Imagine, perhaps, some other form of diplomatic deal - similar in concept to transferring trade power or military access - that allows colonists to be assigned to culture-convert provinces in exchange for technological help and/or protective alliance. Maybe call it "protectorate"...
Then they would not really be colonists any more.
In the end colonization is something to do apart from conquest, but with more and more native tags it gets displaced by simple conquest which is already a solution to nearly everything.

To be more concrete, with this change there is no need anymore to colonize Australia, or at least to do it yourself. You can simply conquer the 5 tribes in north Australia (easy as all are costal and thus can be cored at the same time) which is enough to create a colonial nation which will colonize the rest.
Even if someone else colonizes Australia "the normal way", because that takes so much longer by the time this colonial nation gets created the one who did so through conquest will have a huge headstart and will easily be able to win a colonial war.

And this is the case for most colonial regions. I think only the Caribbean, Brazil and La Plata you actually have to colonize instead of just conquering enough to get a colonial nation.

Creating tags everywhere simply destroys the complete colonial game system or at least devalues it a lot.
 
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Not anymore.

In 1.30 Judaism is followed by Semien and Dembiya in Ethiopia, and Zoroastrianism only in Yazd, but in 1.31 a second Zoroastrian Province is being added in Gujarat. And given that Indian Sultanates have big tolerance buffs, it is a lot more likely for that province to stick around into the mid and late game, while Yazd and the Jewish provinces are probably going to get converted pretty quickly.

You also have to take into account that the dev actually really liked Zoroastrianism because of Hedgehogs. Hedgehogs are cool.
You’re correct, but at the same time Jewish provinces should have a higher conversion malus than -2. -4, for instance, would be appropriate in my view, even if that’d make it the most resistant to conversion religion in the game. There were large Jewish communities in Ethiopia well into the second half of the 20th century, and most probably they would still be there if Israel hadn’t arranged their mass migration into their country.
 
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As an Australian (from Australia), this is pretty good, although I don't know what the Aborigines would think of this.

However, controversies aside, I think that the provinces of Bogong and Bathurst should be given to NSW or some other match up, as you've extended Victoria too far north methinks ;)

1613556126694.png


Also, can you make Canberra a 1/1/1 province? As every good Australian knows that Canberra is a hole and there is nothing to do there

Overall, an 8/10, pretty good! :D
 
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I’m a person of European descent born in South America and I don’t find it offensive at all. Immigrants blend (or at least tend to) into the society and culture that receives them, colonizers replace them with their own.
I'm a person from an European nation with a number of people from another European nation migrating over the last few years and the above is not true. Immigrants tend to stick to their own circles and do not blend into the local populace.
 
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I'm a person from an European nation with a number of people from another European nation migrating over the last few years and the above is not true. Immigrants tend to stick to their own circles and do not blend into the local populace.
On the short term mostly they don’t, I agree with you on that, but these are longer processes that take a couple generations at least. I’m not an expert by any means but immigrant generations studies have a lot to say in that regard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant_generations?wprov=sfti1

But yeah, the tendency to blend into the host society is more of a long-term thing, I should have been clearer on that.

The case of Europe in particular is interesting because traditionally it has been a continent of emigrants, and only recently (the last 50 years of so) it has been receiving immigration from other parts of the world (and with the EU intra European migration has boomed as well). But experience in countries in where foreign immigration has been happening for a long time show that my point is for the most part correct.
 
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On the short term mostly they don’t, I agree with you on that, but these are longer processes that take a couple generations at least. I’m not an expert by any means but immigrant generations studies have a lot to say in that regard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant_generations?wprov=sfti1

But yeah, the tendency to blend into the host society is more of a long-term thing, I should have been clearer on that.

The case of Europe in particular is interesting because traditionally it has been a continent of emigrants, and only recently (the last 50 years of so) it has been receiving immigration from other parts of the world (and with the EU intra European migration has boomed as well). But experience in countries in where foreign immigration has been happening for a long time show that my point is for the most part correct.
Yes, I guess that does clear things up.

I do feel like there is a need to redesign colonization, or whatever one calls it, from the European perspective, not just increase the density of Native nations and provinces. Although these changes do contribute to making the world more alive, the fact that the only interactions used by the European nations are colonize or conquer makes this feel like an incomplete endeavor.

For a very long time there have been call for the possibility to establish trade posts rather than full colonies. Protectorates having been removed entirely also feels like a move that was motivated by simplifying gameplay, but with the unfortunate effect of promoting naught but conquest. If there is one area of the game that really needs more complexity (in a sense of making interactions less straightforward colonize or conquer) it's interaction between European (or other in case of eg. North African nations taking on QFTNW) and Native nations.
 
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Yes, I guess that does clear things up.

I do feel like there is a need to redesign colonization, or whatever one calls it, from the European perspective, not just increase the density of Native nations and provinces. Although these changes do contribute to making the world more alive, the fact that the only interactions used by the European nations are colonize or conquer makes this feel like an incomplete endeavor.

For a very long time there have been call for the possibility to establish trade posts rather than full colonies. Protectorates having been removed entirely also feels like a move that was motivated by simplifying gameplay, but with the unfortunate effect of promoting naught but conquest. If there is one area of the game that really needs more complexity (in a sense of making interactions less straightforward colonize or conquer) it's interaction between European (or other in case of eg. North African nations taking on QFTNW) and Native nations.
Oh yes, definitely. I actually liked protectorates as a mechanic, I think they should have been fleshed out more instead of outright removed.

I agree with you that colonization and colonial conquest should be revamped, I think it was OK for a while but the game has grown more complex with the years and now as a mechanic it feels for the most part shallow and clunky.
 
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in eu 5 i hope we can colonize primitve provinces. something like a double ownership. inluding conflicts. double ownership would also be a solution for trade companies. you do not buy a province, only a part of it. and you do not (have to) conquer provinces directly, you only force your own trading city. something like an megacorp slot in stellaris.

just brainstorming.
 
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