EU4 - Development Diary - 28th January 2016

[Prometheus_1]

Over and beyond that making much of Italy almost unclickable, Abrorea was gone after 1420.

thats not correct , The region is called Arborea ,but the region was occupied by the descendant feudal governor , the marchesate of Oristano wich was a vassal of Aragon but endependant and that tried to reconquer the Island in 1470 .
Plus the map is finely clickable its featuring several regions and proper historical endependant states. Italy was divided in many endependant states , the whole Papal one was only by the 1502 after Borgias wars . Neglecting those endependant states makes the map incorrec and unrealistic and it seems to me this game wants to portray a good historical sc ario. The map allows for over 16 million regions and the ones I introduced are larger than others already preent in game in other places.

 

[Prometheus_1]

Wiz has already said that they aren't going to go down the tiny unclickable provinces route.

I have no problems clicking and the regions added are as large as many others already present in the map , I avoided adding microstates on purpouse like in Romagna , bit the ones I added are fairly big and perfectly clickable .
It doesnt go against gameplay but it enhances and makes even more historically correct.

 

[Freudia]

Hello .... Here is My sugestion for Italy correction , not all of Central Italy was under Papal Control , and thats the reason of the Borgia's wars ... This is how I propose to change it a little mod I did , not perfect but it shows a better historically correct subdivisiona and political situation of Italy in 1444 .

Link to Mod

I would really love if you coul dtake into consideration those modifications , it will make Italy gameplay more interesting and historicaly correct , Among some things that I didn't tocuh as I yet not sure how to do is that :
Sicily shoudl be a union under Aragon but as Kingdom of Sicily .
Istria should have Italian Istriote culture so as Gorz that is called Gorizia
Dalmatia shoudl have venetian
as well as the vescovades of Trento and Bressanone.
Savoje is Savoia in ITalian and Nice is Nizza, Montferrat is Monferrato etc...

You know your provinces have gotten too small when their names don't even fit inside them.

 

[Prometheus_1]

A higher resolution wouldn't fix the issues. The convenient province size is currently limited by how small an area you can target with your mouse, which is mostly unrelated to both screen resolution or map resolution. And zoom is not a real solution, since it just means you have to scroll more, which is also inconvenient.

I think the only change that would justify having much smaller provinces would be if you didn't have to interact with them. I.e. they were mostly just for movement and all the interesting stuff (buildings, recruitment, etc. and thus also computations) happened one level higher in something like the current "areas".

I dont get from where comes this idea that the regions added are unclickeable unless you are playing the game from a 7inches phone screen , I have no issues clicking each o fthe added regions even from max zoom so , it seems just an excuse lazy argument to oppose a more historically correct scenario.

 

[Prometheus_1]

You know your provinces have gotten too small when their names don't even fit inside them.

But they do fit fine , Its just my modding experience limited that made me go overboard sometimes , and I am not sayng its perfect , wich isnt , for example the Patrimonio di San Pietro , wich is the name of the Roman countryside at the time is indeed too long , but it fits fine as well .

 

[MacDuffin]

To add: Madagaskar 3 provinces?

My response to Sicily and Madagascar would be that neither of the two where broken up into multiple conflicting factions of varying peoples who have an enormously long and complicated history. Between all the different peoples like Irish, Old English, English and Scots and varying faiths there's plenty of reason for them to be separate.
Sicily also has a diverse background of peoples, but is not as divided in this time frame, so it can be better represented with a higher development, where as Ireland is split up.
I don't know about madagascar, the whole area could use some work, but overall this is how I've interpreted it.

 

[Freudia]

But they do fit fine , Its just my modding experience limited that made me go overboard sometimes , and I am not sayng its perfect , wich isnt , for example the Patrimonio di San Pietro , wich is the name of the Roman countryside at the time is indeed too long , but it fits fine as well .

I feel we have a different definition of 'fine', because to me, things like Arozzo (the second O is overlapping the border with Perugia), Ancona (the first A), Camerino (the O), that province south of Siena (Montecino? I can't read the name fully, but either way the name doesn't fit inside the province), and so on. There's also Elba, which is literally an unclickable province.

That's not to say I don't like the detail of the Italy you have there, because I do, but I don't think it'd work so well unless we expanded the resolution of the game's map so that everything is larger so that the provinces you added are of an acceptable size on the map.

 

[ChildeR]

Ireland -> why should a remote island on the fringe of Europe get nine (9!!!) provinces when Sicily gets only three (3!!!) - ???

Because Sicily doesn't need to fit nine tags?

It's also 3-4x smaller geographically, but that's less of a reason.

 

[Antulamatsch]

Like the rework of Ireland ^^

 

[Prometheus_1]

I feel we have a different definition of 'fine', because to me, things like Arozzo (the second O is overlapping the border with Perugia), Ancona (the first A), Camerino (the O), that province south of Siena (Montecino? I can't read the name fully, but either way the name doesn't fit inside the province), and so on. There's also Elba, which is literally an unclickable province.

That's not to say I don't like the detail of the Italy you have there, because I do, but I don't think it'd work so well unless we expanded the resolution of the game's map so that everything is larger so that the provinces you added are of an acceptable size on the map.

May be try the mod out an dsee yourself that the sizes are perfectly fine , as said they are not smaller than other small regions around the world , actually even bigger than Avignon or Malta ... Anyway try it yourself. That said I have not said my mod is perfect , not at all , but if the text overlaps or else is because i did mistakes because originally editing the region the text fitted completely inside the space, its me that edited it and stretched tomake it bigger, but in automatic the engine put the names finely inside . So its more to blame my inexperience modding than else .

On defense of this subdivision is that its really important to me to represent a proper Italian situation because of the Italian wars and the several conflicting factions present in Renaissence there. There was a reason why Italy become the principal testing ground of the most advanced technology in warfare , those states were constantly fighting each other and make an Unification of the peninsula was difficult because of that . Plus they where also rich and wealthy and could afford to rely heavily on several mercenary companies .

I personally find more interesting and realistic reproducing a proper historical scenarion in the Peninsula , as well as in other regions and be able to creeate a solid state rather than go rampage and conquer all of the Europe wich was quite impossible at the time .

Italy needs such an asset because it helps gameplay and historicity .
If I coudl go further , I would also add possible detaching states like I did for Ravenna wich is under Venetian control in my scenario but was another free signoria just befoure 1444 and there are several ones . I wouln't go further and make really micro nations because then you would be right on the "clickable" size ... For example Romagna would hold 7 signories but I limited to add only Rimini as it was the main one . I totally skipped San Marino as its size is negligible compared to the surroundings .

But I strongly believe that the setup I put up , although not idela or perfect , is really doable and strongly needed in Italy to partition the power struggle , give more fundamentals to inter states Italic wars and also reproduce better History .
Cesare Borgia went on a campaign to battle and defeat each one of those endependant estates for the Pope in 1500 and annexed most of them one after the other .
This would also allow for a good reproduction of that situation .

 

[Prometheus_1]

Because Sicily doesn't need to fit nine tags?

It's also 3-4x smaller geographically, but that's less of a reason.

On Sicily side , I have not aded more provinces, because historically there where 9 districts there, but at difference of what I did on Italian peninsula , those woudl make indeed Sicilian regions too small , while subdividing into 4 or 5 woudl not be historically correct. From some later maps those regions where also grouped in macroregions as we see in the actual game map so this setup is actually not that bad . I woudl be pro Sicily subdivision as well if it was justified by historical long campaigns of conquest and fights though .

On the other side I could subdivide Sardinia because in 1444 Historically it was not all unified , and it had 4 regions not two , one of those was Arborea wich the Aragons just defeated few years earlier , but that was left as endependant marchesate to the successor state March of Oristano , wich later tried to detach from Aragon and fought back around 1470 , after they lost the war , the last endependant state was annexed to the rest of Sardinia .

 

[perhje]

looks like an iron fist as the seventh idea of sligo. Beleive it is a nobility loyalty modifier.

 

[priamossz]

does anyone know in the end what is that icon means next to the manpower one? merc? navy?

 

[Golladan]

does anyone know in the end what is that icon means next to the manpower one? merc? navy?

We will find out on this week's diary.

 

[Ecroc]

I like the italian map proposed by Prometheus_1. I know that it's never going to happen and that it has way too many small provinces, but I appreciate how it tries to portray the mess that was Italy in the renaissance.

As far as culture groups are concerned, I believe that making them related to language made more sense than the direction they have taken now

 

[Prometheus_1]

I like the italian map proposed by Prometheus_1. I know that it's never going to happen and that it has way too many small provinces, but I appreciate how it tries to portray the mess that was Italy in the renaissance.

As far as culture groups are concerned, I believe that making them related to language made more sense than the direction they have taken now

Thankyou , but still dont get why shouldnot going to happen , Italy was made of mini nations , its important to make them right , apart that the way I added them are not so small regions as said are as big as many other small regions around , like montferrat. , avignon , nice , gorz etc ...

 

[Elite_Marksman]

I'd like to point out that the new addition next to manpower probably isn't militia, sailors etc. because if you look carefully there are 2 guys and the one on the right has a tourniquet on his arm, so I think it has something to do with battle losses / mar exhaustion.

 

[Demetrios]

My response to Sicily and Madagascar would be that neither of the two where broken up into multiple conflicting factions of varying peoples who have an enormously long and complicated history. Between all the different peoples like Irish, Old English, English and Scots and varying faiths there's plenty of reason for them to be separate.
Sicily also has a diverse background of peoples, but is not as divided in this time frame, so it can be better represented with a higher development, where as Ireland is split up.
I don't know about madagascar, the whole area could use some work, but overall this is how I've interpreted it.

Well, Madagascar did, and had several competing states until the Merina cam out on top right about the end of the game period and unified nearly the entire island. There's been a lot of requests to re-work Madagascar out of the 3 province situation it is in now - the island is comparable in size to Borneo and Sumatra, and look how many provinces they have. Madagascar may not need that many provinces, but a few more would certainly go a long way towards rectifying the situation...

 

[Gustav91]

Isn't it about time to expand the map in north and south directions? I get a shock each time I look at a real map there is so much more.

 

[grommile]

Isn't it about time to expand the map in north and south directions? I get a shock each time I look at a real map there is so much more.

Relative to the current EU4 map, there is nothing but water and Antarctica to the south, and nothing but tundra and the Arctic Ocean to the north.