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EU4 - Development Diary - 30th of July 2019

Hello and welcome to this week’s dev diary. This will be the last content-led dev diary for a little while – from next week onwards, you can expect to be hearing about mechanical changes in the upcoming expansion. For now, though, I will be talking about Savoy. Also, we have a new trade node to show off, so I’ll first of all hand you over to @Ofaloaf to talk you through that.

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Hey all, @Ofaloaf here with another tidbit of mapwork we've been working on. With all the new provinces added to Italy and France, the Genoa trade node was getting rather large compared to its neighbors. Along with the Pest node (which we have since added an additional route to from Crimea), we decided it was time to split up the Genoa node.

Here's what Genoa used to look like:

upload_2019-7-29_16-40-21.png


That's a pretty considerable chunk of the Western Mediterranean! Even the Venice node doesn't control the whole Adriatic. It was necessary to carve something out of Genoa's trade node. So, since Genoa proper is in Italy, the best option seemed to be to peel away the westernmost provinces. This inclined us to pick to some province in Aragon. Valencia and Barcelona seemed to be the best candidates there, and of the two we ended up going for Valencia, as it was a fine commercial port at the time and it's slightly further away from Genoa on the map.

So the new setup has ended up like so:

upload_2019-7-29_16-41-2.png


Valenica interrupts the flow of trade from Sevilla to Genoa. If you still want trade to flow to Genoa (and that node is now located actually next to Genoa now!), you can still force trade to keep flowing through Valencia through the judicious use of merchants and trade fleets, but you can just try to hold onto all the trade you can at Valencia as well. This change should help make trade in the Mediterranean a little more challenging, and still offer more opportunities for more countries to get a slice of the action.

That's it from me, back to @Caligula Caesar for some Savoy-specific content!

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To recap on their starting position and their national significance, they are situated between France and Italy with lands in both countries. During the first half of EU4, they were basically fought over by France and the Emperor as both tried to extend their power in Italy. Having successfully managed to avoid being absorbed into either, in the 18th century they were then ceded Sicily (along with the title of King) for their participation in the War of the Spanish Succession. A couple of years later, however, the Emperor forced them to swap Sicily for Sardinia, thus forming the Kingdom of Sardinia-Piedmont. Still a relatively weak power compared to its neighbours, soon after the conclusion of EU4 it would emerge as the strongest independent Italian nation (almost by default, since Austria controlled much of the rest of Italy either directly or through puppet states) and so be the focus for the Italian unification movement. By playing their cards well, they were able to capitalise on the situation and form a united Italy, though they had to give up their French lands and Nice to achieve this.

This situation opens up several paths for Savoyard missions. Firstly, there’s the historical path: Early missions focused on surviving and being good at diplomacy, some good economic missions and a path for Italian conquest. However, although EU4’s Savoy remains Piedmontese culture, it felt wrong not to give Savoy missions to do in France. Hence, Savoy has also been given a full tree helping them become King of France.

upload_2019-7-29_16-41-29.png


One of the first missions Savoy might look to complete is an economic one: Prosper in Piedmont. It is achieved by adding three development to Turin (which is coincidentally also the reward for annexing Saluzzo and Montferrat) and getting 120 total development, plus the Renaissance. Doing this will give you an event that will let you either gain even more development in Torino or let you convert to French culture and gain development in French Savoy instead. The AI will choose what to do based on how it is doing in France and Italy.

upload_2019-7-29_16-42-39.png

Occitan starts out as an accepted culture for Savoy, so this switches the cultures around.

Following on from that mission, there are several more economic missions – after all, it was partly Piedmont’s economic strength that led to its ability to unite Italy. Glory to Ciamberi (<capital name> - it changes based on the last mission) requires six buildings to be built in your capital and it to have 30 development. This is quite a lot for mountainous provinces, but the reward is good too – the capital will become a center of trade. Finally, Powerhouse of the North (renamed Powerhouse of the South if you go French) requires the steep task of 100 development in your capital’s area, along with several other economic conditions – but if you get it, you will get +5% admin efficiency and +5% goods produced for the rest of the game.

Another bonus Savoy can get from the same branch of the mission tree, this time via being a very good Christian, is being able to found the Order of Saints Maurice and Lazarus.

upload_2019-7-29_16-42-52.png


In terms of conquests, Savoy is well-covered in Italy with a set of missions that basically track their progress towards Italian unification. Once they have images, they may or may not end up with some blatant references to the Risorgimento. On the other side of the Alps, there’s a branch to go east and one to go north. Going north will lead you to clash with Switzerland (Monter l’Estcalade – a reference to an attempt by the Savoyards to take Geneva by surprise… Geneva was historically not an easy vassal for Savoy, something we are keen to represent ingame). You will then have the chance to take Burgundy. On the other hand, going west will have you first clash with Provence and then, if you dare, with France. Once you dominate southern France, you will gain claims on Ile de France. You then need but seize Paris and you will be able to claim the French throne via a personal union CB.

The final branch of Savoy’s mission trees focuses on diplomacy and self-defence. The Savoyards after all had to be very good at both to survive. The first two of these missions require you to first make a strong ally, then make sure you are covered no matter the situation by getting two good friends who happen to be rivalled to each other. This having been done, Savoy will be tasked with having four up-to-date forts in Alpine areas; doing this will give the reward of said forts being upgraded. Finally, the best way to ensure Savoy’s safety is to have a bigger army than any neighbour; doing this will give a useful +10% morale and +1 army tradition for the next 30 years.

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We didn’t just add missions to Savoy – we have also added two small early-game events (we’re also open to suggestions for more!). The first of these regards the Duke’s father, who resigned his position as Duke to become Antipope Felix. You get the choice on whether to support your father, which gives a healthy military boost in return for somewhat burning your bridges with the Pope.

upload_2019-7-29_16-43-6.png


The second new event concerns Cyprus. Historically, the Savoyard rulers from Charles II in the 1480s right down to Umberto II, the last King of Italy, would claim the Kingdom of Cyprus (and Jerusalem and Armenia) – at least in their titles. This was based mainly on the descent from one of the last Christian Princesses of Cyprus. Fortunately for us, the starting Savoyard ruler is married to a Cypriot, which means that, should a non-Christian nation annex Cyprus, this may happen:

upload_2019-7-29_17-0-42.png


Edit: Almost forgot to show this, but we've also added some new ideas for Sardinia-Piedmont, to make it a more interesting nation to form:

SPI_ideas = {
start = {
idea_cost = -0.1
improve_relation_modifier = 0.25
}

bonus = {
global_tax_modifier = 0.15
}

trigger = {
tag = SPI
}
free = yes #will be added at load.

spi_flexibility = {
diplomatic_upkeep = 1
}
spi_defensive_prowess = {
defensiveness = 0.25
}
the_shroud_of_turin = {
papal_influence = 1
prestige = 0.5
}
spi_royal_sardinian_army = {
discipline = 0.03
global_manpower_modifier = 0.1
}
spi_centralized_state = {
development_cost = -0.05
core_creation = -0.1
}
spi_piedmontese_manufacturing = {
global_trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.1
}
spi_risorgimento = {
ae_impact = -0.1
}
}

SPI_ideas:0 "Sardinian-Piedmontese Ideas"
SPI_ideas_start:0 "Sardinian-Piedmontese Traditions"
SPI_ideas_bonus:0 "Sardinian-Piedmontese Ambition"
spi_defensive_prowess:0 "Defensive Prowess"
spi_defensive_prowess_desc:0 "From the French in Savoy and Piedmont to the Spanish in Sardinia, our lands have long been tempting targets for our neighbors' expansionist ideals. In protecting our sovereignty through the years, we have honed our fortification techniques and mastered the art of defending a fortress."
spi_flexibility:0 "Diplomatic Flexibility"
spi_flexibility_desc:0 "Wedged in between stronger powers and under constant threat of falling too far under their influence, we have been forced to practice nimble diplomacy - some would say shameless opportunism - in order to safeguard our independence and find some new opening to advance our state. Though distasteful in the eyes of traditionalists, opportunism has its upsides."
spi_royal_sardinian_army:0 "Royal Sardinian Army"
spi_royal_sardinian_army_desc:0 "The golden age of mercenaries has passed, and our army shall keep with the times. By implementing reforms to professionalize it, we can establish a standing army capable of projecting our power abroad in Italy and Europe as a whole."
spi_centralized_state:0 "Centralized State"
spi_centralized_state_desc:0 "By imitating the means and methods of the great powers of Europe in our own territories, we can forge Sardinia-Piedmont into powerhouse capable of dominating Italy and standing our ground on the European stage."
the_shroud_of_turin:0 "The Shroud of Turin"
the_shroud_of_turin_desc:0 "The burial shroud of Christ himself was found in our lands in the year 1390 and since that time has been the prized artifact of the House of Savoy. Put the Shroud of Turin on display and watch the pilgrims flock to Piedmont, bringing their wealth with them."
spi_piedmontese_manufacturing:0 "Piedmontese Manufacturing"
spi_piedmontese_manufacturing_desc:0 "Situated on the key trade route between Venice and France, there are many markets on which to sell our produce. By adopting the latest methods pioneered elsewhere, we can increase our production and bring plentiful riches to our lands."
spi_risorgimento:0 "The Risorgimento"
spi_risorgimento_desc:0 "Italy has not been united since the fall of Rome, but the idea of a united Italy has never died. Now, as the dream enjoys a resurgence, we have emerged as one of the main standard bearers of the Italian people's hopes and dreams."

That's all for today! Next week, as mentioned, we'll finally start telling you about the changes to game mechanics we are in the process of implementing. Until then, have a great week!
 
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I truly abhor the trade flow mechanic. What qualifies the Channel, Genoa and Venice to be an end node? Why can't trade be a two way street? Trade just seems to flow unidirectionally and it makes no sense. Trade is all about consumerism and demand. This is very poorly depicted in EU4.

The best thing they can do for trade is have it observe a dynamic flow based on development and deficits. The higher the development of a trade node the more it pulls as development is an indicator of population which has more need. Why would an already rich cloth trade node like the English Channel pull cloth trade from India? Why would an already Silk rich Persian node pull silk from India and China? Why would a coffee short Indian and Chinese nodes not wish to pull that commodity to their local market? Why wouldn't Arab trade nodes not pull grain to their region?

This makes trade nodes rather stale and boring. There is always an optimal region to have your trade capital in and having key goods in your region does nothing for you in terms of trade.

The Mughals historically is considered to be the richest empire in history with a 25% global GDP share. This is purely due to its advantageous trade position in the global market. Why isn't armaments and gunpowder a trade good, ones which African countries imported from Europeans in exchange for slaves?

Trade goods have little meaning apart from country bonuses and ducats. India for example fell pray to invaders due to their inability to trade armaments which were easily accessible to the Mughals through trade with the Ottomans.

I don't think this can be addressed in EU4 without major overhauls to the system. There are commercial goods and military goods. The former should improve economy while the latter should improve armies/navies. A region with naval supplies should have easily the best regional naval capacity. I could go on and on, but I feel very little will come from this post. So I'll end it with the cliche "Food for thought and make of it what you will".
 
I truly abhor the trade flow mechanic. What qualifies the Channel, Genoa and Venice to be an end node? Why can't trade be a two way street? Trade just seems to flow unidirectionally and it makes no sense. Trade is all about consumerism and demand. This is very poorly depicted in EU4.
EU4's trade system does one job, and does it... tolerably well.

That job is "determine who is extracting the most economic benefit from the Europe-ward flow of Things Europe Wants".

Given that one of the defining features of the era was the European quest to change who is profiting the most from the Europe-ward flow of Things Europe Wants from "Muslim merchants" to "European Christian merchants", this is actually a reasonable design decision, if not an ideal one.
 
Will Poland and the area between Russia and HRE get it's own small content pack? Currently Polish Gov doesnt work at all like Elective Monarchy historically did and there isnt even a parliment mechanic which was so crucial to the whole thing. Furthermore Jagiellon dynasty can't claim all those various thrones it did OTL nor does Poland have enough events to do all those weird historic things it did. Livonia and Teutonic order could use a lot more mechanics and events too. There is also room for ahistoric rout where Poland and Lithuania go separate ways. And yet we are not getting any of that...soo will it happen at some point?
 
Actually, I just thought of a better suggestion than my earlier one in the thread as far as trade routes and End Nodes goes.

Instead, create an event that fires when someone controls EVERY province in the European Super-Region. This event is labeled "Master of the Traderverse". It asks a player what End Node, of the three of English Channel, Genoa, or Venice, that the player would like as their Primary Trade Node. It then moves the players Trade Capital to either London (English Channel Choice), Genoa (Genoa Choice), or Venice (Venice Choice) and creates two new Trade Routes from the NON-CHOSEN Nodes directly to the Chosen Node.

This solves all of the problems with having multiple collections merchants that I was worried about.

It is also possible to add three New Achievements for making one of the three Choices; "The-Man (For Genoa)", "She-The (For English Channel)", and "Ducator (For Venice)".

NOTE: For those too young to have seen it, these events and achievements are based on the TV Cartoon, "He-Man and the Masters of the Universe". I chose She-The for English Channel based on Elizabeth I being one of the most famous English Queens in History. I chose Ducator for Venice as, as far as I know, Venice slowly dies as a main trade hub over the course of the game...
 
While most of the gold/silver from spanish america flowed into Genoa in history, I think this new Valencia trade node will monopolize american riches in the iberia. Maybe a direct conexion between Seville and Genoa would work..
 
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Will Poland and the area between Russia and HRE get it's own small content pack? Currently Polish Gov doesnt work at all like Elective Monarchy historically did and there isnt even a parliment mechanic which was so crucial to the whole thing. Furthermore Jagiellon dynasty can't claim all those various thrones it did OTL nor does Poland have enough events to do all those weird historic things it did. Livonia and Teutonic order could use a lot more mechanics and events too. There is also room for ahistoric rout where Poland and Lithuania go separate ways. And yet we are not getting any of that...soo will it happen at some point?
Currently, you get a free personal union with Lithuania, free march of Moldavia, free vassal of Danzig, and missions for personal unions with Hungary and Bohemia. I like Poland as much as the next guy, but adding all unions/claims that Poland historically did get/could have gotten (union with Sweden, union/putting your dynasty on Muscovite throne) would make it insanely OP. Balance is the reason countries and their conquests are not 100% accurately represented in the game, otherwise i.e. Ottomans would have to be even more OP than they are now.

As for governments, if you wanted to model them accurately, that could take an entire separate game by itself. It's obvious that needs to be greatly simplified for gameplay purposes.
 
Actually, I just thought of a better suggestion than my earlier one in the thread as far as trade routes and End Nodes goes.
I'll say what I said last time, but a little more bluntly:

You've won the game. Why are you whining about having to assign merchants to two of the end nodes?
 
grommile,

I sit down to play, start a new game on Very Hard, and I have won the game. Its not about winning, its about how you get there, and what the final game looks like. And my OCD (Diagnosed) wont let me NOT place collecting Merchants in the other two End Nodes, even though this breaks a bonus for having only one collecting Merchant. I just mostly don't like that the game rules do NOT mesh with actual game-play. It is frustrating.
 
grommile,

I sit down to play, start a new game on Very Hard, and I have won the game. Its not about winning, its about how you get there, and what the final game looks like. And my OCD (Diagnosed) wont let me NOT place collecting Merchants in the other two End Nodes, even though this breaks a bonus for having only one collecting Merchant. I just mostly don't like that the game rules do NOT mesh with actual game-play. It is frustrating.
How about just make it so you collect passivly in any end node where you have more then 50% of the tradepower? Or if that's too easy then 3/4ths. But sorry the node system is not meant to be able to handle at trade going to one node.
 
Actually, the trading system handles all trade (EXCEPT for Local Provinces of End Nodes, and Safi, Sevilla, and Tunis going to Genoa as there is no other choice) going to one single End Node (English Channel) just fine. IE., I can get all but 5 trade regions in the game to have their trade flow into the English Channel. Venice will ONLY have its local provinces providing trade, and Genoa will have Genoa Local Provinces, Safi, Sevilla, and Tunis Trade Regions providing trade. EVERY other Trade Region will flow to the English Channel.

I have done it in multiple games, but it requires a LOT of merchants in the European area to route around Genoa and Venice. It requires 10 Merchants in Champagne, Wien, Katsina, Timbuktu, Ivory Coast, Ragusa, Alexandria, Caribbean, Chesapeake Bay, and Gulf of St. Lawrence. It also requires a player to have killed Europe, Sub-Saharan Africa, Caribbean, and the Eastern Seaboard of North America.

But having 10,000 ducats per month collected from the English Channel is fun. What is not fun is the single merchant collection rule costs me 1,000 ducats, either from not getting the bonus in the English Channel, or by not collecting Genoa/Venice provinces. (At that point in the game, it is usually 300 for Venice, and 700 from Genoa that I am collecting at the cost of 10% more collection in the English Channel)
 
But having 10,000 ducats per month collected from the English Channel is fun.
Sounds pretty boring to me.

Getting there might be interesting, but being there? Nah.
 
Please. Make trade routes in both directions, for example: from Genoa to Valencia and from Valencia to Seville. So but any node.

They can add more trade routes, for example: from Bordeaux to Seville or vice versa. Just like that but in all other trade nodes.

You can add the option of moving trade centers, because if I already have one at level three in one state, another trade center in that state is useless, isn't it?

You can add the option to merge states, for example: if I have one of two provinces and another of three, merge them. To have perfect states of five provinces.

Can you fix the Alps? they are never Italy, Switzerland, France or any other nation that surrounds them. Please.

Por favor. Hagan rutas comerciales en ambos sentidos, por ejemplo: de Génova a Valencia y de Valencia a Sevilla. Así pero cualquier nodo.

Pueden agregar más rutas comerciales, por ejemplo: de Burdeos a Sevilla o viceversa. Justo así pero en todos los demás nodos de comercio.

Pueden agregar la opción de mover centros de comercio, pues si ya tengo uno en nivel tres en un estado, otro centro de comercio en ese estado es inútil, ¿no?

Pueden agregar la opción de fusionar estados, por ejemplo: si tengo uno de dos provincias y otro de tres, fusionarlos. Para tener estados perfectos de cinco provincias.

¿Pueden arreglar lo de los Alpes? nunca son Italia, Suiza, Francia o cualquier otra nación que los rodee. Por favor.
 
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Bidirectional trade routes would require an entire redesign of the trade system. That simply isn’t happening.

Multiple centres of trade in one state aren’t useless, they just can’t both be upgraded to level three. A level two trade centre is still pretty darned useful and if you don’t have other centres to upgrade to level three, you need to expand.
 
if you don’t have other centres to upgrade to level three, you need to expand.
I was with you until this. There's been plenty of tall trading nations in history, seems odd we should have to expand to be good at trade.
 
Can you give examples, please?
Malaysia, Singapore, The Hanseatic League (even more so if you consider each city separately), The neatherlands and so on. While some of these did expand their expansion was usually the result of trade dominance not the other way around.
 
I was with you until this. There's been plenty of tall trading nations in history, seems odd we should have to expand to be good at trade.

The problem with that is that if you allow a country to just sit there, develop its provinces, and get more and more and more influence over trade / trade income, you essentially break the balance. You would have a bunch of small countries in Europe with thousands of ducats and nothing to spend them on.
 
Please. Make trade routes in both directions, for example: from Genoa to Valencia and from Valencia to Seville. So but any node.
This requires a major redesign of the trade system (because at present, creating a loop in the trade routing creates a literally infinite amount of money and crashes the game).

You can add the option of moving trade centers, because if I already have one at level three in one state, another trade center in that state is useless, isn't it?
Trade centers add bonuses to the province they're in, so no, having two in the same state is not useless.

You can add the option to merge states, for example: if I have one of two provinces and another of three, merge them. To have perfect states of five provinces.
This defeats the apparent purpose of the state mechanics.

Can you fix the Alps? they are never Italy, Switzerland, France or any other nation that surrounds them. Please.
The Alps aren't broken. You just don't understand how the "coloured wastelands" option works.