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EU4 - Development Diary - 9th of October 2018

Welcome all to today’s dev diary, where I’ll be covering the long-awaited Iberian and North African map update coming in the 1.28 ‘Spain’ update.

iberia_map.png


Nations released for the sake of example


As things currently stand, though as always things are subject to change before release, Iberia consists of 571 development over 63 provinces. This includes the Macaronesia area but now excludes Labourd, which has been returned to the French region.

In Aragon, the distinction between the Kingdom of Aragon, the Kingdom of Valencia, and the Principality of Catalonia has become more pronounced. Tarragona is now rightly in the Catalonia area, and the province of Valencia has been split so that Castello and Xativa have become separate provinces. Valencia itself has the potential to be a very rich city indeed, as the player’s actions can lead to it becoming a major producer of silk. The three major Balearic Islands have become provinces in and of themselves, linked together by a strait and comprising their own Area.

Likewise, Galicia has seen itself grow from 1 province to 4, and now has an Area all to itself.

Portugal and Granada have been gifted one additional province each: Aveiro and Malaga respectively.

Last but not least, many citizens of Navarra are looking a little confused as they wonder where their coastline has gone. Wedged between major powers and with no immediate means of escape over the ocean, Navarra will be a very challenging nation in 1.28.

New releasable nations:

Valencia: The Kingdom of Valencia was a major constituent part of the Crown of Aragon in 1444. In 1.28 the former kingdom of El Cid will be a releasable nation.

Asturias: The Kingdom of Asturias ceased to exist long before our start date, but it nicely fills the absence of releasable nations in the region.

morocco_map.png


I’ve also taken another look at North Africa. Here we can see several new provinces along the coast, including those belonging to new nations that can emerge during the game.

The province of Demnate allows a route through the Atlas mountains; a convenient shortcut and potentially a deadly choke-point.

The Canary Islands have been split between Gran Canaria and Tenerife to represent the somewhat incomplete Castilian conquest and colonization of the islands.

For the masochists among you who play as Granada, they now have a core on the province on Ceuta.

New releasable nations:

Salé and Tétouan: Home to some of the most infamous Barbary Pirates, these nations will be releasable in 1444, and may emerge dynamically in the course of the game in the style of Habsan.

fezzan_map.png


Finally, I’ve made some minor changes to the eastern Maghreb. The province of Kairwan has been added for Tunis, and the addition of Sabha has allowed a more aesthetic redrawing of Fezzan’s borders.

That’s all for today. Next week, @Groogy will reveal some of the new features coming in the as yet unnamed Immersion pack to be released alongside 1.28.
 
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Wont be fair just using Galician names when playing as Galicia, and using Castilian names playing as Castille? At least your culture is represented, wich is far more than some of us can say.
But then if I play as Ming, should I see 托萊多 instead of Toledo, 倫敦 instead of London and so on and so forth?
 
Honestly, if u don't like the names of the provinces, u have the option to change it yourself.
Sure. As does everyone (wink, wink).
 
Wont be fair just using Galician names when playing as Galicia, and using Castilian names playing as Castille? At least your culture is represented, wich is far more than some of us can say.

Well, if you are talking about using "La Coruña" and "Orense" when it's under control of a nation with Castilian culture (Kingdom of Castile in this case), and "A Coruña" and "Ourense" in any other case... I suppose it could be a nice middle ground.
 
Regarding the new Kingdom of Valencia, i must keep insisting that it has to have it own culture. It just doesn't make any sense that catalans have more dev than Bohemia or Burgundy (without PUs) now that they will have +3 new provinces.
 
@neondt Just a very curious question which I have wondered for a while. Do you have to "run" and load the game to check your edits like we have to do when modding to see the effects? Or do you guys have a shortcut? (guessing on the latter)
 
Big thanks for @neondt and @RodDel for dealing in this way with the received feedback. This is Paradox at its best and brings back some love after the last few months :)
 
Big thanks for @neondt and @RodDel for dealing in this way with the received feedback. This is Paradox at its best and brings back some love after the last few months :)
They aren't done JUST yet! ;)
 
Couldn´t "Castilla la Vieja" be called "Valladolid" or "Segovia", as "Castilla la Vieja" region comprises also another existing provinces such Palencia, Avila, Soria or Burgos
 
Couldn´t "Castilla la Vieja" be called "Valladolid" or "Segovia", as "Castilla la Vieja" region comprises also another existing provinces such Palencia, Avila, Soria or Burgos

Done already

I've taken a look at city positioning as well as a few other matters. First though I'd like to quote this post by @Trin Tragula which explains some of the reasoning behind such things:



The short version is that city positioning and province shapes aren't entirely a matter of historical geography. With that said, here's how Iberia is looking on my personal build right now. Once again, nations are released for the sake of example.

View attachment 409932
 
By the way, didn't notice it until right now. I see the Pyrenees are still wasteland you can't go through. I hate it and it's quite unrealistic. Felipe II spent a huge amount of money fortifying the whole area because there were actually several attempts by France to invade through them. The two fortresses in Pamplona and Jaca are the best example of it, but there are some smaller fortresses in Biescas (western part of Aragón) and also in northern Catalonia.
 
@neondt please consider adding Braga instead of Aveiro and introducing Setubal (sado estuary and salt produced here was very important for Portugal) between Lisboa and Beja. Just this two changes for Portugal and I think it will improve the map a lot.
I think this is exactly right. To me, the priorities regarding the map for Portugal are, in order:
1. Replace Aveiro with Braga
2. Add Setubal, which together with Coimbra should separate Lisboa from Beira
3. Split Beira (Beira Alta/Beira Baixa or Guarda/Castelo Branco, etc.)
I know people have suggested even more provinces, like a Ribatejo/Santarem province, splitting Algarve, splitting the Azores, etc. but I don't think those are justified to be honest.

Furthermore, point 3 should only happen if at least 2 or 3 more provinces are added to Castile, especially in the Extremadura area (split Badajoz to add Merida, split Caceres and add Plasencia for example). For the same reason I think it is currently too easy to reach Lisbon from the Spanish border, it is also too easy to reach Madrid/Toledo from the Portuguese border. A lot of the interesting border conflicts and fortifications that existed historically are not really reflected in the game at this point (think of the "twin" fortress-towns of Ciudad Rodrigo and Almeida that were of crucial strategic importance in the Napoleonic Wars for example).

Of course at this point I am implying there should be a further 5 or 6 provinces in Portugal+Castile and apparently this would be too unbalancing? Since we don't know all the new mechanics coming in the Immersion Pack I am willing to accept that might be the case, but based on the entire past of EU4 I have a hard time picturing an OP Iberia dominating, say, France. I don't think I have ever seen AI Spain expand into south France (maybe after France was smashed by England and Burgandy?) while AI France expanding into Iberia is extremely common. Or maybe this is about multiplayer balancing? I have zero experience with that.
 
On a global scale? :p Absolutely irrelevant. We're talking only about the Iberian peninsula here, but the game represents the whole world.

If the Júcar river is represented (the one on Xátiva)
Then the Segura river must be represented too because they have a similar caudal.
Besides, as you said "it made important parts of Murcia and Alicante extremely fertile" (also Albacete and Jaén) then that's not irrelevant at all.

When i said they are similar I didn't mean that they have the same caudal but that they enter into the same category of river. Júcar has about 32-49 m³/s depending on the location while the other rivers represented have 300. Segura has 25-30m³/s depending on the location

I would understand if you said it's not an important feature to have or you don't care. But don't say it's irrelevant. There are plenty of similar rivers around the world represented in this game
 
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If the Jucar river is represented (the one on Xativa)
Then the Segura river must be represented too because they have a similar caudal.
Besides, as you said "it made important parts of Murcia and Alicante extremely fertile" then that's not irrelevant at all

Well, actually, the Jucar has double the flow as the Segura, and it´s also 1.5 times longer. In any case: adding a river has some implications with movement of troops and bonuses to defense that I don't really think the Segura merit. Not even sure about the Jucar, and I couldn't really care less if it wasn't represented.

But no, Jucar and Segura are not nearly the same.
 
Modern Spanish provinces were first drawn on a map with the shape they have today in 1822. Today's exact division of Galicia into these four provinces wasn't a thing until the reforms of the 19th century. The ones drawn by paradox here are fine as territories more or less centred around a city.

I disagree. That 4-provinces division is a modern one from the XIX century, following the logic of a modern, centralistic Spanish state. In EU4 Galicia is still a feudal kingdom, there were actually 7 provinces (one for each city) in a feudal sense. In any case, I would suggest to replace Vigo (irrelevant at that time) with Tui (capital of its province with its own cathedral).

You are right, I know I used a modern map with the 4 provinces as an example, but even using as a reference the old 7 provinces distribution I keep finding the south border and size of Lugo wrong in the EU4 map, and Ourense's shape it's just an invention, it doesn't resemble the original province or the modern at all.
I really don't care if they are left that way but in my opinion this provinces can be drawn better.
I agree with the name change from Vigo to Tuy.
jjjjj.JPG
Capturag.JPG
 
Hi, I'd just like to add this in to bolster the argument about adding Setúbal to Portugal as a salt producing province:

http://ler.letras.up.pt/uploads/ficheiros/7978.pdf

While I am from Aveiro and am flattered for having my district now in the game, especially as a salt province (maybe with some fluctuating production modifiers to reflect the haff-delta's effect) I still think the other users make a lot of good points about Braga and Setúbal, not to mention the sheer concentration of provinces per each country being a bit... odd. I would rather the game have prettier and more sensible provinces than a buttload of them just there to tickle my brain's favoritism.

That being said, I hope all the other issues the other users pointed out on the map about Castille, Galicia, Valencia and so on also get solved. Is there any precedent of Paradox changing the borders after a released 'map changes' DD?

PS: Please, change the name of the 'Gulf of Cadiz'. It doesn't even touch the gulf itself, much less Cadiz. :)
 
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I think this is exactly right. To me, the priorities regarding the map for Portugal are, in order:
1. Replace Aveiro with Braga
2. Add Setubal, which together with Coimbra should separate Lisboa from Beira
3. Split Beira (Beira Alta/Beira Baixa or Guarda/Castelo Branco, etc.)
I know people have suggested even more provinces, like a Ribatejo/Santarem province, splitting Algarve, splitting the Azores, etc. but I don't think those are justified to be honest.

Furthermore, point 3 should only happen if at least 2 or 3 more provinces are added to Castile, especially in the Extremadura area (split Badajoz to add Merida, split Caceres and add Plasencia for example). For the same reason I think it is currently too easy to reach Lisbon from the Spanish border, it is also too easy to reach Madrid/Toledo from the Portuguese border. A lot of the interesting border conflicts and fortifications that existed historically are not really reflected in the game at this point (think of the "twin" fortress-towns of Ciudad Rodrigo and Almeida that were of crucial strategic importance in the Napoleonic Wars for example).

Of course at this point I am implying there should be a further 5 or 6 provinces in Portugal+Castile and apparently this would be too unbalancing? Since we don't know all the new mechanics coming in the Immersion Pack I am willing to accept that might be the case, but based on the entire past of EU4 I have a hard time picturing an OP Iberia dominating, say, France. I don't think I have ever seen AI Spain expand into south France (maybe after France was smashed by England and Burgandy?) while AI France expanding into Iberia is extremely common. Or maybe this is about multiplayer balancing? I have zero experience with that.
I agree with you. I actually created a thread with some of these suggestions:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/a-few-suggestions-for-iberia.1123194/
 
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