EU4 - Development Diary - 9th of October 2018

[Thrudgelmir2333]

It's not just a matter of development, the number of provinces also affect the time it takes to occupy a certain part of the map. Since each province is always, on average, somewhere between 20-30 days, it means it would take a force just as long to occupy Galicia as it would an equal but larger region of four provinces (Beiras, Lower Andalusia, etc). It affects gameplay itself.

 

[Naranjito]

Game starts in 1444, you haven't really presented an argument. But I am not against the Galicia changes as I don't know enough.

The game starts in 1444, that's what you tell England.

Or many areas of the Netherlands were not rich in 1444, rather from 1500 and 1550.

Not to mention Catalonia, if it were 1444, it would be Barcelona and the rest of Catalonia (2 provinces)

Paradox if it takes into account the evolution, that's why in England they have provinces for 5,000 km2.

And I guess that's why Castilla receives part of the deal, from 1450-1600 very well, from 1700 very badly. And they look more at 1700-1820 than at 1450-1600.

 

[Nuajan]

Regarding Iberia as a whole:

-I know this is a tired point by now, but considering the animosity the Portuguese develop towards Spain claiming the title of, well, 'Spain' from 1500 beyond, how about adding or making the title of 'Spain' sort of like the HRE mechanic in the sense any kingdom in Iberia can claim it and all exist more or less included in it? You can even work in how most countries in Spain were unified through marriage etc through this, and add a varying meter of which Iberian culture is dominant in 'Spain'. If you include all kingdoms somehow, you might even get the brand new 'Iberian Union' modifier.

I find interesting the idea that the title of King of Spain can be claimed by any of the kingdoms of the peninsula. It would grant legitimacy and rights over all the provinces of the peninsula.

 

[Thrudgelmir2333]

I find interesting the idea that the title of King of Spain can be claimed by any of the kingdoms of the peninsula. It would grant legitimacy and rights over all the provinces of the peninsula.

It works especially well since it's something that is even referenced at the starting description of Portugal in Medieval 2 Total War XD.

It would also take away the fighting in the forums about what to name the resulting country (Spain vs Iberia), as well as look less egregious that the Reddish Aragon or the Greenish Portugal have both to turn the color of Castille just to get their region-unifying power-up.

You can add-in extra mechanics to allow, for example, for Andalusia to re-impose Islamism in case they somehow take control of Spain. Or protestantism or whatever.

The main point is to tie the region together with soft power instead of hard conquest.

 

[Franciscus123]

The game starts in 1444, that's what you tell England.

Or many areas of the Netherlands were not rich in 1444, rather from 1500 and 1550.

Not to mention Catalonia, if it were 1444, it would be Barcelona and the rest of Catalonia (2 provinces)

Paradox if it takes into account the evolution, that's why in England they have provinces for 5,000 km2.

And I guess that's why Castilla receives part of the deal, from 1450-1600 very well, from 1700 very badly. And they look more at 1700-1820 than at 1450-1600.

You specifically pointed out 1800 regarding Galicia so that's why I said - and the Netherlands were quite rich even in the 14th century (Friesland, Bishopric of Utrecht, Liege, Flanders itself, they are fairly well represented). England I would agree though.

Edit: even England though, apart from the highly more developed provinces around London, it doesn't have that many high development provinces. It benefits more from variety to allow for long term growth as it did historically (industrial growth in the North).

 

[pauletx]

What it means is that if a nation "irrelevant" has 16 provinces and 110 development, when a 6 or 4 times more relevant (depends on whether in 1600 or 1800) is asked 36-38 provinces, do not make fun of you or despise.

There has been a previous exchange, before saying that they are nothing. I have been told that they are Avila, Segovia, Cuenca or Soria, and I have only answered, asking what were other provinces of Aragon.

I totally agree with u, that Castile, and Iberia as a whole, needs a lot of provinces.

 

[Naranjito]

You specifically pointed out 1800 regarding Galicia so that's why I said - and the Netherlands were quite rich even in the 14th century (Friesland, Bishopric of Utrecht, Liege, Flanders itself, they are fairly well represented). England I would agree though.

Edit: even England though, apart from the highly more developed provinces around London, it doesn't have that many high development provinces. It benefits more from variety to allow for long term growth as it did historically (industrial growth in the North).

I from England also see it well, it's just that they have bonuses.

Another example of looking to the future is Granada, in 1444, it was the most populated city in Europe (although due to the plague in Paris), but by 1500 it had already lost and in 1600 it was fine, but not superstrong, development 16. Development rather of 1600-1800 than of 1450-1500.

And the Netherlands would be rich in 1450, but its golden age and when they became a power came to 1600. I believe that the Netherlands is not thinking about 1444.

And that's why, as they look to the future, at most Portugal with 90,000 km will have 12 provinces. And thanks, because Castilla is worse. The odd thing is about Aragon, I do not know.

PD:

Galicia in 1600 was already strong according to the data there.

 

[King Anund]

Last but not least, many citizens of Navarra are looking a little confused as they wonder where their coastline has gone.

We have been asking ourselves that question since the year 1200

 

[Live Fast Die Young]

I find interesting the idea that the title of King of Spain can be claimed by any of the kingdoms of the peninsula. It would grant legitimacy and rights over all the provinces of the peninsula.

This is in fact a very good idea. The medieval background of the era meant that the political dispositions were kingdoms . But every King in Iberia felt that they all belonged to a "Spain" entity. The Duke of Barcelona himself said in the 2nd concilium "debemos dejar bien alto el honor de España" and I've read (please Portuguese friends confirm this) that some Portuguese feel unfair for Castille claiming the Spain name

 

[Afonso de Albuquerque]

This is in fact a very good idea. The medieval background of the era meant that the political dispositions were kingdoms . But every King in Iberia felt that they all belonged to a "Spain" entity. The Duke of Barcelona himself said in the 2nd concilium "debemos dejar bien alto el honor de España" and I've read (please Portuguese friends confirm this) that some Portuguese feel unfair for Castille claiming the Spain name

This exists in CK2, where you can claim the Empire of Hispania. And honestly, such a mechanic feels more at home there than in EU4.

 

[Thrudgelmir2333]

This is in fact a very good idea. The medieval background of the era meant that the political dispositions were kingdoms . But every King in Iberia felt that they all belonged to a "Spain" entity. The Duke of Barcelona himself said in the 2nd concilium "debemos dejar bien alto el honor de España" and I've read (please Portuguese friends confirm this) that some Portuguese feel unfair for Castille claiming the Spain name

I believe the Portuguese King protested it at the time, but I'm not sure which one or when exactly.

 

[Nuajan]

This exists in CK2, where you can claim the Empire of Hispania. And honestly, such a mechanic feels more at home there than in EU4.

It is true that the mechanics of the dynasties favors this, but it does not mean that it can be implemented in EUIV, a way of permanent claims in the rest of provinces and prestige. The rest of the kingdoms of the peninsula, would obtain negative opinion of the one that asks for the rights of the Kingdom of Spain. This is historic.

 

[Thrudgelmir2333]

IMO, they oughta have done the same for Great Britain, considering its system and how Britannia Rule currently gives this path to any country in the British isles.

This way it also allows the country in question to claim the title while protecting its particular flavor events and color.

 

[TheRipper69-PT]

Portugal forming Spain is just weird for me... If Portugal ever united with Castille I have no idea what would be called, but to African conquests were added to "kingdom of Algarve"

 

[Afonso de Albuquerque]

It is true that the mechanics of the dynasties favors this, but it does not mean that it can be implemented in EUIV, a way of permanent claims in the rest of provinces and prestige. The rest of the kingdoms of the peninsula, would obtain negative opinion of the one that asks for the rights of the Kingdom of Spain. This is historic.

Yes, but in EU4 the way this is usually handled is a basic decision to tag-switch. If you changed this for Spain, then you should probably also change the other big "aspirational" empire tag-switches: Great Britain, Italy, Arabia, Hindustan, etc. etc. I would love for there to be an alternative Iberian Union tag switch if you directly owned all the peninsula (I guess what Olivares tried to do in the 17th century) so that Portugal, Aragon, etc. have a different option instead of what is effectively just transforming into Castile.

 

[Thrudgelmir2333]

The idea is to claim just the title of the region, precisely to avoid that, so that it is possible for someone playing Portugal can claim the crown of Iberia a little more officially and exert soft power over the rest of the Peninsula WITHOUT transforming into Spain. Same thing for example for someone playing Catalunya or Granada.

The requirements could be something like owning key amount of provinces, having vassals, unions, Papal Influence, etc....

 

[Nuajan]

Portugal forming Spain is just weird for me... If Portugal ever united with Castille I have no idea what would be called, but to African conquests were added to "kingdom of Algarve"

Well ... at the time of the game the concept of Spain refers to all the kingdoms of the Iberian Peninsula. In the context of the time, Portugal was a Spanish kingdom as Castile was.

 

[Thrudgelmir2333]

Well ... at the time of the game the concept of Spain refers to all the kingdoms of the Iberian Peninsula. In the context of the time, Portugal was a Spanish kingdom as Castile was.

It's hardly the contested point. What players of Portugal are worried about is that, in EU4 at least, Spain is pretty much Castille on steroids, and people play Portugal and Aragon precisely to avoid that path. All it's being asked is that the formed nation is less like Great Britain and more like the Hindustan vs Bahrat thing.

 

[Nuajan]

It's hardly the contested point. What players of Portugal are worried about is that, in EU4 at least, Spain is pretty much Castille on steroids, and people play Portugal and Aragon precisely to avoid that path. All it's being asked is that the formed nation is less like Great Britain and more like the Hindustan vs Bahrat thing.

If Portugal forms Spain because you have achieved PU with Castile or because they conquer it, you could change the country to Spain, with a different flag. They could have obtained the ideas of the Portuguese. Even the flag and the shield could be different

 

[Thrudgelmir2333]

If they also change the color of the country, a la Portuguese Spain mod, that would be an acceptable scenario, yeah.